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[Merged]LCFC Errors / Loose Change Final Cut

Dazed said:
The angle at which these columns are bent outward away from the building seems strange though. What do you think?
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They're not bent outward, they're bent inward and to the left. Back and to the left, I guess.
 
Hyperviolet said:
I'm just at the Pentagon section. Okay, same mistake as last edition.

"Those who believe a 757 did not hit, are fueled with the damage to the building..........
....... particularly the lack of damage from the wings or vertical stabilizers"

Loose Change misrepresents the damage by showing this image:

[qimg]http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/imgs/blue1c_s.jpg[/qimg]


The water obscures the damage, when in reality, the wing damage was made on the lower floor, which cannot be seen due to the fire fighting operation.
As seen on the zoom out shot:
[qimg]http://www.twf.org/News/Y2002/0215-Pentagon.JPG[/qimg]

Real damage, including the lower floor:
[qimg]http://www.freedom-force.org/pics/pentagon_composite.jpg[/qimg]


That's dishonest.
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I might add that after the facade damage, the wings folded neatly back into the fuselage and slipped into the hole that the nose and fuselage created...well according to the Purdue simulation.
 
Just started the Controlled Demolition section.

Apparantly the towers collapse in approximately 10 seconds, with WTC 7 in under 7 seconds. Hmm.

Regarding WTC 7, It is noted that: "If this is true, it would be the 3rd steel framed skyscraper to completely collapse due to damage and fire."
The film then goes on to compare the collapses with buildings only suffering from fire.
Bizarre.
 
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http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/09/12/alqaeda.911.claim/index.html

One of the terrorists, Al-Ghamdi (posing as Abu Abdul Rahman), pretended to send a love message via an Internet chat room to his German girlfriend, who was actually Binalshibh. It contained more code for the attacks:

'The first semester commences in three weeks. Two high schools and two universities. ... This summer will surely be hot ...19 certificates for private education and four exams. Regards to the professor. Goodbye. '
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Am I right about the Al-Ghamdi/fighter pilot mix up? I'm wondering here.
 
Swing Dangler said:
I might add that after the facade damage, the wings folded neatly back into the fuselage and slipped into the hole that the nose and fuselage created...well according to the Purdue simulation.
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If the plane folded neatly into the hole the nose and fuselage punched, then what caused the wide damage on the lower floor?

I'm confused.
 
Swing Dangler said:
I might add that after the facade damage, the wings folded neatly back into the fuselage and slipped into the hole that the nose and fuselage created...well according to the Purdue simulation.
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That's just blatantly not true. The Purdue simulation had the wings carry on into the building. Have you not seen it?
 
Does anyone notice that at the 38 minute mark he mentions the Washington Post said that flight 77 was light, and a yellow banner rolls across the screen with nothing on it?

Maybe its just the google video version.
 
On the Taliban's willingness to hand over Bin Laden if they were given evidence of his guilt, there is this article from the Washington Post, amusingly on the InfoWars site. It makes clear that this was a delaying tactic the Taliban repeatedly used, and never resulted in a handover, even after evidence was given and more was offered even before 9/11.

By that time, bin Laden had been indicted for his alleged role in the embassy bombings. The officials reviewed the indictment in detail with the Taliban and offered to provide more evidence if the Taliban sent a delegation to New York. The Taliban did not do so.
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"It became clear that the call for more evidence was more a delaying tactic than a sincere effort to solve the bin Laden issue," Inderfurth said.
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http://www.infowars.com/saved pages/Prior_Knowledge/US_met_taliban.htm

Even as the Taliban faced its own destruction, they wouldn't hand him over. And America's attempts to get Osama Bin Laden to the US started, according to this article, in 1996, and pushed a great deal harder from 1998.

The implication of what LCFC is putting forward is that all the US had to do was hand over evidence of guilt, and they'd have had their man. Because despite LCFC's apparent desire to put 'facts' out there for people to make up their own mind, the narrative they've constructed is designed to make you believe there was a conspiracy.

Oh, and the score is even crasser than LCSE, particularly the pentagon section.

It's also duller than LCSE. I see this as a good thing, I think it will lessen the appeal of the video and how many people swallow it. It's the whimper of the truth movement.
 
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What about the handing Bin Laden over if the US can provide solid evidence? And this is after Dylan Claims the Government says they have mountains of evidence against him.

I'm not in truther mode, but I think it should be included in this thread, seeing as how someone who may have watched the film may think you are neglecting to comment on it.

Nevermind, seems it has been adressed in another thread:

Matilda said:
On the Taliban's willingness to hand over Bin Laden if they were given evidence of his guilt, there is this article from the Washington Post, amusingly on the InfoWars site. It makes clear that this was a delaying tactic the Taliban repeatedly used, and never resulted in a handover, even after evidence was given and more was offered even before 9/11.

By that time, bin Laden had been indicted for his alleged role in the embassy bombings. The officials reviewed the indictment in detail with the Taliban and offered to provide more evidence if the Taliban sent a delegation to New York. The Taliban did not do so.
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"It became clear that the call for more evidence was more a delaying tactic than a sincere effort to solve the bin Laden issue," Inderfurth said.
Click to expand...

http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/US_met_taliban.htm

Even as the Taliban faced its own destruction, they wouldn't hand him over. And America's attempts to get Osama Bin Laden to the US started, according to this article, in 1996, and pushed a great deal harder from 1998.

The implication of what LCFC is putting forward is that all the US had to do was hand over evidence of guilt, and they'd have had their man. Because despite LCFC's apparent desire to put 'facts' out there for people to make up their own mind, the narrative they've constructed is designed to make you believe there was a conspiracy.

Oh, and the score is even crasser than LCSE, particularly the pentagon section.

It's also duller than LCSE. I see this as a good thing, I think it will lessen the appeal of the video and how many people swallow it. It's the whimper of the truth movement.
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Claim: Molten Metal exceeding 2000 degrees fahrenheit was found in the rubble.
Okay, can someone more knowledgable help me out here?


It's my understanding that according to NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36 the steel was exposed to heat no greater than 1800 degrees fahrenheit.

What is LC's source that this steel is over 2000 degrees fahrenheit?
Is it just based on the assumption that the molten material is steel?

With that assumption, however, it's my understanding that the molten metal, in order to be steel, would have to be exceeding 2800 degrees fahrenheit?

Am i missing something?

EDIT: I see Guiliani says the fires were exceeding 2000 degrees.
Can anyone confirm where he got this information, as to be certain it is not a layman mistake?
 
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Matilda said:
The implication of what LCFC is putting forward is that all the US had to do was hand over evidence of guilt, and they'd have had their man. Because despite LCFC's apparent desire to put 'facts' out there for people to make up their own mind, the narrative they've constructed is designed to make you believe there was a conspiracy.
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No one at the time ever thought that the Taliban would hand over OBL no matter what evidence the U.S. government had. Dylan seems to think that no one had ever heard about the Taliban before 9/11 (just because he probably hadn't). For years before 9/11 I had been teaching my students about how the Taliban treated people, women in particular. Wanna fly a kite? Let's stone you instead.

Dylan was a high school student in far away upstate New York on 9/11 and most of his followers were in the second or third grade. I however was 37 and actually in NYC watching all this happen and the word of the day was confusion, confusion, confusion. It's dishonest to take the media reports of the day and present them as fact. Why not mention the widespread reports that there were bombs at Stuyvesant High School? People told me that they were 100% certain that it was a helicopter that crashed into the North Tower. Where's the report on that?
 
Hyperviolet said:
I see Guiliani says the fires were exceeding 2000 degrees.
Can anyone confirm where he got this information, as to be certain it is not a layman mistake?
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Again, more confusion. Guiliani also said that New York City was going to need 10,000 body bags.
 
They make a big deal out of the NASA thermal images without bothering to show them; wonder why? Maybe because they don't show nearly high enough temperatures?

In response to requests from the Environmental Protection Agency, through the US Geological Survey, NASA flies a plane over the site of the WTC complex, equipped with a remote sensing instrument called AVIRIS. AVIRIS is able to remotely record the near-infrared signature of heat. Analysis of the data it collects indicates temperatures at Ground Zero of above 800 degrees Fahrenheit, with some areas above 1,300 degrees. On September 16, dozens of “hot spots” are seen, but by September 23, only four or five remain.
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Alt+F4 said:
Again, more confusion. Guiliani also said that New York City was going to need 10,000 body bags.
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So, it's true that no metal was tested and found to be at those temperatures, contrary to claims in LCFC?
 
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Hyperviolet said:
Claim: Molten Metal exceeding 2000 degrees fahrenheit was found in the rubble.
Okay, can someone more knowledgable help me out here?
Click to expand...

The Truthers always point to the witnesses who said they saw molten steel, then they looked up that molten steel is 2800F. I think that's it.

By the way, has anyone else taken a look at the Loose Change Forum lately for topics about LC:FC? All I see is a bunch of grumbling and faint praise.
 
!





I know I have no real right to ask this, but do you think we could spawn this thread out into the style I have done with the 'Act 1: Hijackers' thread? It just makes everything a lot more tidy and easy to source things from. And information will not get lost in the maze.

Many regards,
UW





!
 
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Brainster said:
Let's start a compilation thread here for all the mistakes and bunk.

I'll start it off with the segment of Sander Hicks discussing Mahmoud Ahmad's supposed $100,000 wire transfer to Mohamed Atta. Hicks states that the Wall Street Journal confirmed the story. In fact, they did nothing of the kind. The Journal's house blog, Best of the Web Today, simply linked the Times of India piece and did no original reporting or confirmation:
.
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Do you have any evidence that Wall Street Journal did not confirm the story?
Also, how can you speak for the Wall Street Journal or its associated blogs in the first place?
If so I would like to see that.

Here is a second source regarding wired money to Atta from Pakistan from CNN.

Sen. Joe Biden confirmed the wire transfer in his interview. When confonted, Biden stated, ""We asked him the question - what was he doing with the head of the Pakistani ISI General Mahmoud Ahmad," said Rudkowski.

"He (Biden)told me - he(Biden) admitted that he met with him - (Biden) met with the head of the Pakistani ISI - he said I told them not to do it, I (Biden)told them not to wire the money - I told them to stop supporting the Taliban..."
You can view the interview at We Are Change.

When you have confirmation like that, do you still deny the story?
 
Sorry to go off topic for a moment...but I'm wondering if LTW shut down the LC forum?
 
Atta's will gets brought up a lot, but the Troofers never really consider anything beyond the oddity that he would have it on the plane with him (if it had made the connection). But why would a healthy man of 32 years have prepared a will if he didn't know he was about to die? Indeed, it strikes me as far more likely that the will was intended if the mission turned out a failure and Atta was killed before he could crash the plane. Indeed, if you look at it, Atta includes instructions on how to wash his genitals (while wearing gloves). But he can't have been delusional enough to think that much of his body would survive the plane crash.
 
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