Mercenaries Third Largest Force in Iraq

crackmonkey said:
Floyd sucked after Waters left.

And I see a number of liberals salving their pain over these regrettable deaths (or in demon's case, delightful deaths) by using this as yet another opportunity to bash the President. I understand... it's an election year, and these guards would likely be voting Republican.
Talk about killing two birds with one stone! Not only have 4 Republicans been killed, their deaths can be used as a weapon against Bush!
Click to expand...

I didn't see where their party affiliation was put up on the news... all four of them Republicans?

Do you simply assume that everyone who gets himself 'martyred' (so to speak) for this useless cause must be a good Republican for supporting what is the most idiotic war in U.S. history, and possibly the most idiotic war the U.S. will ever be involved with?

I'm sorry, that's pessimistic: In the fullness of time, we may someday top even this level of drooling, knuckle-dragging stupidity. It's hard to imagine. Maybe if we elect another spawn of Bush after this one's gone, we can pull it off. Maybe we'll invade Canada (again).

We don't really need Americans demonizing each other: The entire planet already has been comparing the U.S. to the Nazis (and worse) for this unnecessary invasion. They're doing a fine job of it for us. OK, except for some of the Brits. Jolly good.
 
demon -

Perhaps I misread your intent when you said
"I don't fancy the people of Fallujah have much chance of repelling the invaders, but I wish them all the best in their endeavours. ".

I assume that means that you hope they kill the US and allies, or at least their
"mercenaries and paid killers".

Yeah, it sounds like you're really choked up over their deaths.
 
Yeah, they were thugs for hire. They knew the risks and they were willing to take them. $1,000 a day will bring out a lot of their kind, people willing to kill for money.

Apparently, Shemp (and "A Unique Person") get their idea of what a "mercenary" is from watching Hollywood films where the chief bad guy is protected by "mercenaries", to be mowed down by the good guy.

The logic appears to be:

PREMISE: A newspaper used the word "mercenaries";
PREMISE: "Mercenaries" are thugs-for-hire to be killed without thought in Hollywood movies;
-----------------------------
CONCLUSION: Iraq is full of thugs-for-hire to be killed without thought (just like in the movies, you know).

I have no sympathy for them. They were there to clear the way for American profittering. They would have shot anyone in that crowd, no questions asked, if their employer ordered them to do it.

Indeed so; after all, isn't "clearing the way for illicit profiteering" what those mercenaries are for? That's what they always do in the movies, you know: guarding the secret high-tech tunnel in the desert island so that SPECTRA or UNCLE or Dr. Evil could "illicitly profit" from the stolen nuclear warhead they bought from hidden Nazi gold...

Where is James Bond when you need him? I'd bet he could show Dick "Dr. Evil" Cheney a thing or two!

Alas, this sort of cartoonish worldview is what passes for "in-depth analysis of the situation" in this forum.
 
bigbugeyes.gif


Ummm, Skeptic, this from their own website.
 
"Bush Campaign Paying Firm That Specializes In Paramilitaries
by DHinMI
Fri Mar 19th, 2004 at 22:13:05 GMT

There are plenty of things a campaign must pay for, but the Bush campaign may be the first presidential campaign to employ a company that specializes in paramilitary protection.
In reports filed today with the Federal Election Commission, the Bush campaign showed February receipts of $13.7 million, and cash on hand of $110 million. Obviously much of that money will be spent on television advertising. But a quick look at Bush's FEC filing shows something curious--they paid almost $200,000 to Vance International for "personnel services/equipment."

Vance International may not be familiar to a lot of people, but they should be, because they are the Pinkertons of our era. Vance was founded and until recently run by Chuck Vance, a former Secret Service agent who at one time was married to Gerald Ford's daughter. Vance used his Secret Service background in security and investigation to specialize in providing security during labor disputes. From the strikes at Pittston Coal, to Caterpillar, to Detroit Newspapers, if there was violence on the picket line of a high-profile strike, it was most likely provoked by the maladjusted ex-soldiers, angry cop wanna-be's, and CIA rejects who wear the jack-boots of Vance's Asset Protection Team:

"Professional and responsive asset protection services has made our Asset Protection Team (APT) the undisputed leader in the field of labor unrest and major event security since 1985. APT provides security personnel who are trained to protect people and property during potentially disruptive situations, such as strikes, union organizing drives, and plant closings. In addition, APT supplies seasoned professionals during special events and emergency situations, including traveling exhibits, conferences, demonstrations, fund-raising events, and man-made and natural disasters. Discipline and restraint characterize APT, whose operations pioneered the use of photo and video documentation. Our capabilities include business interruption contingency planning and consulting, security personnel and services (e.g., access control, critical area monitoring, crowd control and observation, photo documentation, and emergency response), logistics support, and pre- and post-crisis counseling."

Here are just a few capabilities that Vance believes set it apart from their competition:


·Client choice of uniform style ranging from discreet, non-threatening attire to full riot gear
·Full-time executive protection agents and investigators
·Evidence technicians and coordinators to cross-index photos and videotape
·35mm and video equipment; long-range and night vision lenses available
·Pre- and post-incident counseling by forensic psychologist

Provoking picket line violence ("Asset protection") isn't Vance's only business. They provide executive protection, investigate current and prospective employees, and consult on security matters for corporations, governments and wealthy individuals around the world. (They've just opened an office in--you guessed it--Iraq.) But George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and their families and top aides already received protection from a pretty good outfit known as the Secret Service.

So, here's the question to the Bush campaign: What possible legitimate use do you have for a firm that specializes in high-tech surveillance, personal investigations, and paramilitary protection?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/3/19/22135/3823
 
Apparently they can't get the sercret service (who's supposed to be in charge of presidential security - at taxpayer expense) to do the sort of 'extra credit' things these guys will.

Or Bush is so fearful of his personal safety he wants extra-extra security.
 
As noted in the article, these guys are stike busting goon, which of course relates to repressing freedom of speech. We had quite the experience with them here during the Detroit newspaper strike.

Many injuries and arrests.

"The summer of 1995 will be remembered by thousands of workers in Detroit as the moment their lives were turned upside down. Their employers at Detroit's two corporate newspapers had pushed and pushed--until there was clearly no alternative but to fight back. After walking out on strike, the 2,000 newspaper workers found themselves dissed, replaced and squaring off against police in front of the major newspaper printing plants.

The two years since then have seen an intense struggle by these workers and their supporters. They have faced dozens of injuries from speeding trucks and club-wielding cops at the plant gates. They have traveled the country to rally support and confront corporate heads. And they have searched for a way to actually defeat the ruthless corporate moves of the newspaper owners.
......

Six months before the strike, the newspaper owners hired 1,200 jack-booted security guards--many of them from Vance International Security, an infamous union-busters outfit known to hire Soldier of Fortune-type mercenaries.
....

At the printing plants and corporate offices, Vance thugs in black combat uniforms were spying on the picketers and organizing covert "dirty tricks." It has been exposed that Detroit Newspaper Inc. (the business agent for the Free Press and News) secretly gave large amounts of money directly to various city governments to pay for strike-related expenses, like police overtime. The suburb of Sterling Heights received over $1.3 million--and the first payment began six months before the strike when Detroit Newspapers Inc. secretly paid for police riot gear. Off-duty cops served as body guards for the publishers.

The most militant resistance happened about seven weeks into the strike--over two Saturday nights in September 1995. Several thousand strikers and supporters rallied--determined to prevent scab newspapers from leaving the printing plants with the Sunday editions. They faced off with club-swinging cops. As tear gas was fired, the workers successfully blocked the paper-filled trucks from leaving the plant.

Several workers were seriously injured. One was hit by a scab delivery truck trying to rush out of the Clayton Street distribution center in October 1995. At least 15 other workers were hit by scab vehicles. One worker was badly beaten, kicked and pepper-sprayed by a swarm of police.

During this strike, at least 61 strikers and supporters have been injured and hundreds arrested.
... "
http://rwor.org/a/v19/910-19/915/detstr.htm
 
The Banana Men: American Mercenaries and Entrepreneurs in Central America, 1880-1930 > Customer Review #1:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting and well researched account of revolution

I found this to be an excellent rendition of some rather brutal and violent events. The cast of characters could fill a dozen novels, but they were all real people. The corruption, the revolutions, the mercenaries, the battles the the battles are all detailed in a readable style.

http://www.historyamericas.com/The_...s_in_Central_America_18801930_0813108365.html
 
A US-registered cargo plane with 64 suspected mercenaries on board has been impounded in Harare, Zimbabwe says.
The Boeing 727-100 was held on Sunday after it "made a false declaration of its cargo and crew," Zimbabwe Home Affairs Minister Kembo Mohadi said.

"Mercenaries" of various nationalities and "military material" were on board, he told reporters.

The US State Department said it had no indication the plane was connected to the US government.

Mr Mohadi said the plane was detained at 1930 (1730GMT) on Sunday at Harare International Airport.

An investigation was under way to establish the men's identities and their "ultimate mission," he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3543651.stm
 
03/05/2004 11:12 PM ID: 37582
US Hiring South American Mercenaries For Iraq
An American corporation, Blackwater USA, is hiring mercenaries from Chile to guard oil installations in Iraqi. The ex-commandos, troops and seamen are being trained at a facility in North Carolina before being transferred to Iraq.
The recruiting programme has being going on for 6 months and the $4,000-a-month hired hands are to join 10,000 security personnel already based in the middle eastern country.
There are reported to be many former special forces guards from Bosnia, the Philippines and the US already out there and the trend is proving to be controversial to regular troops already serving in the former war zone.
http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=37582&u_id=56352&CFID=127457&CFTOKEN=20079775
 
Strabo, Geography, c. 22 CE
XVII.i.52-53, ii.4-5; XVIII.i.12-13:
.....
He describes the inhabitants of Alexandria as being composed of three classes, first the Egyptians and natives, acute in mind, but very poor citizens, and wrongfully meddlesome in civic affairs. Second were the mercenaries, a numerous and undisciplined body, for it was an old custom to keep foreign soldiers---who from the worthlessness of their sovereigns knew better how to lord it than to obey. The third were the so-called "Alexandrines," who, for the same reason, were not orderly citizens; however they were better than the mercenaries, for although they were a mixed race, yet being of Greek origin they still retained the usual Hellenic customs.
...
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/romanegypt1.html
 
The world history of mercenaries,
military privatization and proxy war

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27a/index-g.html


Report on mercenaries presented to human rights commission
United Nations press release HR/CN/764. 14 March, 1997
As I previously mentioned the UN recently released the "Report on the question of the use of mercenaries as a means of violating human rights and impeding the exercise of the right of peoples to self-determination, submitted by Mr. Enrique Ballesteros, Special Rapporteur pursuant to Commission resolution 1995/5 and Commission decision 1996/113"

The Special Rapporteur concludes in the document that mercenary activities are a form of violence used in the last 40 years to hamper the exercise the right to self-determination of peoples and to violate human rights. Mercenary activity has been increasing and has been observed in serious criminal activity, including terrorist attacks and drug and arms trafficking.

The stability of constitutionally established governments and international peace and security, along with the enjoyment of human rights and the self-determination of peoples, are seriously impaired by mercenary activities, continues the report. Mercenary activity and careers should be banned and existing international provisions relating to mercenaries to ensure that these criminal acts are discontinued.

Drawing attention to the connection between terrorism and mercenary activities, the Special Rapporteur calls on the Commission to reaffirm its condemnation of these activities and suggest to all States to incorporate practical measures in their national legislation to prohibit the use of their territory for the recruitment, training, assembly, transit, financing and use of mercenaries.

Presenting his report, Special Rapporteur ENRIQUE BERNALES BALLESTEROS said the use of mercenaries in various parts of the world was a persistent problem. Such activity should be prohibited in international and national law, with existing loopholes closed.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27a/003.html
 
What then is a true mercenary? Essentially mercenaries are not part of the society for whom they fight nor a part of its regular forces; rather, they are specialists in warfare and are paid. Mercenaries provide a number of advantages to their paymaster, foremost being military skills not possessed by national troops. Mercenaries may be willing to serve when the paymaster's subjects may not be. They consequently often make better bodyguards than the national troops would; members of a given society may be swayed by politics or sentiment. As a seventeenth-century Scots mercenary who fought in the Thirty Years' War put it, "So we serve our master honestlie, it is no matter what master we serve."
....
Mercenaries have usually had an unsavory reputation, reflected in the old European saying that "Every soldier needs three peasants: one to give up his lodging, one to provide his wife, and one to take his place in Hell." Yet their use is almost universal in advanced societies, and they have often played key roles in history. Without them Carthage could never have challenged Rome, and Greek mercenaries were a crucial factor in the spread of Hellenistic civilization from Italy to Afghanistan after the death of Alexander the Great.

Mercenaries were an essential, and underrated, element of medieval warfare. Flemish mercenaries, for example, allowed King Stephen of England (1135-1154) to fight off the Plantagenets for nearly twenty years. When Henry II came to power, he banished the Flemings, who were hated by the English—and promptly hired his own mercenaries. By the end of the medieval period, mercenaries were everywhere in Europe, from the famed Swiss pikemen to Italian condottieri like Sir John Hawkwood. Mercenaries were heavily used elsewhere. In 755 the Chinese T'ang dynasty nearly fell when a Turkish general revolted and Indian pastoral tribes used military service to transform themselves into a warrior caste, the Rajputs, or "Sons of Kings."

The use of mercenaries by European powers continued; Hessian soldiers used by Britain in the American Revolution were a notable example. Before the creation of modern nation-states, most rulers found it convenient to use mercenaries. This era ended dramatically during the French Revolution (see French Revolution, Wars of the) with the massacre of the Swiss Guard in Paris. The modern concept of national sovereignty required the suppression of nonstate military activity. Foreign nationals would henceforth be uniformed, trained, and officered as units of the national army such as the French Foreign Legion and the British Gurkhas. True mercenaries reappeared in the 1960s when new African states such as the Congo, lacking an indigenous military infrastructure, briefly employed such troops.
...

http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/mil/html/ml_033800_mercenaries.htm
 
I found your post about the 'strike-busters' to be hilarious... likely unintentionally so.
It's 'repression of free speech' to videotape strikers who engage in illegal activity, blocking trucks from leaving the printer?
How did Vance's 'jack-booted thugs' contribute to the violence? The article mentions injuries caused by picketers being beaten by police and being hit by a truck they were playing chicken with...

God. How can you post this drivel?
 
Thank you for your informative and insightful comment.
I post this drivel because I'm just not a smart as you.
I hope that you will find it in your heart to excuse my thoughtless behavior, in posting every unsubstantiated rumor about Bush, as you so perceptively noted elsewhere.
I continue to look forward to you restoring my faith in humanity, by documenting what would otherwise be a baseless slur, quite beneath contempt, and your presumed fine character.
That, as you suggested in offering to do so quite some time ago, would make me feel better.
Until then, I remain, your humble student.
 
Just to throw more fuel on the fire...

Since the definition of "mercenary" seems to be at the root of the discussion, can someone offer me an opinion on whether or not the "human shields" who took up brief residence in Iraq prior to the war should also me considered "mercenaries"?

Common sense tells me they would not, but with Subgenius' definition, it seems like they could be. They bore political weapons as opposed to military weapons, but they were foreign nationals acting on behalf of a government in a (soon to be) war zone, were they not?
 
I think you have answered the age old question about how many angels can dance on the point of a pin.
Congratulations on succeeding where countless others have failed.
 
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