Men shouldn't get plastic surgery.

ponderingturtle said:
Both are getting it to make themselves more attractive. The desire and the goals are the same, it is just which ones you find to improve their attractiveness more.
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Okay, I'm going to drop the N word. Normal. And I'm going to take some flack for it, even though everyone here knows exactly what I mean.

People whose appearance is "normal" don't usually require cosmetic surgery to appear attractive. Those who have serious defects are not "normal" and desire cosmetic surgery just to appear "normal". Normal looking people get cosmetic surgery to appear more attractive. Non-normal looking people get cosmetic surgery to appear normal.

Oh heck, I'm going to cop it for that now. Let me go get my flameproof underwear.
 
arthwollipot said:
Okay, I'm going to drop the N word. Normal. And I'm going to take some flack for it, even though everyone here knows exactly what I mean.

People whose appearance is "normal" don't usually require cosmetic surgery to appear attractive. Those who have serious defects are not "normal" and desire cosmetic surgery just to appear "normal". Normal looking people get cosmetic surgery to appear more attractive. Non-normal looking people get cosmetic surgery to appear normal.

Oh heck, I'm going to cop it for that now. Let me go get my flameproof underwear.
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What are you trying to say? It's my personality that puts women off?

:)
 
arthwollipot said:
When there's a problem to be fixed, sure. But a woman with perfectly ordinary C-cups getting breast enlargement for no reason other than she thinks men go for big boobs? Unnecessary.
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But that's the only way breast implants look good - when they are well buried under real breasts. For women who "need" breast implants, they never look good, at least not naked.
 
If one look at Mickey Rourke doesn't send people running from a surgeon's office screaming in fear with burning retinas... I don't know what would.
 
Xephyr said:
If one look at Mickey Rourke doesn't send people running from a surgeon's office screaming in fear with burning retinas... I don't know what would.
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Hey, at least he was the right guy for his role in Sin City.
 
Given the example of Kenny Rogers, or Mickey Rourke, or- dog forbid- Burt Reynolds, I'd rather keep my naturally appearing youthful, homely looks than opt for plastic surgery.
And I think my ears stick out like traffic cones; I've had ny nose broken twice, and I'm over 50. I ain't pretty, but I'm pretty content.
 
skeptifem said:
Do you really think that the morality of people having plastic surgery relies on how culturally accepted the results are? How do you reconsile **** liek female genital mutilation, foot binding, or neck rings?
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What on earth does that have to do with OP? And what makes you think Steve S approves of forced body modification, given he thinks even voluntary body modification is wrong?

And to answer OP -- I disagree completely. First, as Wolfman and others already pointed out, his argument is against bad plastic surgery, not against plastic surgery in general. When done well -- and it gets better every year, -- you do not even realize it hapeened. And second, not only I approve of people improving their appearance if they want to, I have nothing against people using surgery to change their appearance, even if end result is something conventionally less attractive. Tongue splitting comes to mind. Most people think it is ugly. I would not do it myself, but if that floats your boat, go ahead as far as I am concerned.
 
Spent a chilling few minutes in an elevator recently with a woman -- I'd guess pushing 70, emaciated as a concentration camp survivor except for gigantic boobs and lips like a gourami, face a taut, botox dead, mask, ears on the back of her head from all the lifts, capped teeth of a whiteness, and hair of a color, not found in nature -- you get the picture.

The term of art is, I believe, "Frankenstein Barby."

One of the few sights even more bizarre is a male of similar age trying to look like a teenager -- great flabby gut, bald pate with a ratty ponytail, earring, tattoo, baggy shorts and big shoes, hat on backwards, slobbering after women young enough to be his grand daughter...

Anybody got a term for this creature?

And, BTW, why do people object to looking like human beings?
 
Xephyr said:
If one look at Mickey Rourke doesn't send people running from a surgeon's office screaming in fear with burning retinas... I don't know what would.
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I still wouldn't throw him out of bed ;). I've always found him absolutely delicious and probably always will.

What I find unfair is the double standard that is prevailent here. If someone is disfigured, it's obviously not their fault; what they look like. The reason why they want a correction in that appearance is that it's not what they want people to see, when they look at them. A person who finds their own reflection unattractive, it's not their fault either. They were born with those looks, those features that they dislike, with the same absence of choice. Why is it okay for someone with a scar to not like it and want to fix it; okay but someone who finds themselves unattractive should just deal with it?
 
a3sigma said:
Spent a chilling few minutes in an elevator recently with a woman -- I'd guess pushing 70, emaciated as a concentration camp survivor except for gigantic boobs and lips like a gourami, face a taut, botox dead, mask, ears on the back of her head from all the lifts, capped teeth of a whiteness, and hair of a color, not found in nature -- you get the picture.

The term of art is, I believe, "Frankenstein Barby."

One of the few sights even more bizarre is a male of similar age trying to look like a teenager -- great flabby gut, bald pate with a ratty ponytail, earring, tattoo, baggy shorts and big shoes, hat on backwards, slobbering after women young enough to be his grand daughter...

Anybody got a term for this creature?

And, BTW, why do people object to looking like human beings?
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Is it possible that judgemental comments like this are what make people so self-conscious of their appearance in the first place?
 
sgtbaker said:
Is it possible that judgemental comments like this are what make people so self-conscious of their appearance in the first place?
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Yes, but I doubt it.

Is it possible that such comments may cause someone to realize how bizarre they've made themselves look?

The next question, of course, is: what business is it of mine, and where do I get off saying anything about how anyone looks?

Answer: none, and nowhere. But shouldn't people be told that they have a "kick me" sign pasted on their ass. Even if they put it there themselves?
 
a3sigma said:
Yes, but I doubt it.

Is it possible that such comments may cause someone to realize how bizarre they've made themselves look?

The next question, of course, is: what business is it of mine, and where do I get off saying anything about how anyone looks?

Answer: none, and nowhere. But shouldn't people be told that they have a "kick me" sign pasted on their ass. Even if they put it there themselves?
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You are entitled to your opinion but it's not just you being judgemental. It's perfectly acceptable to publicly make fun of people who don't look "good", as long as it's not a birth defect, disability, or a scar. It's how judgemental people can be that makes people desperate to look "acceptable".
 
sgtbaker said:
You are entitled to your opinion but it's not just you being judgemental. It's perfectly acceptable to publicly make fun of people who don't look "good", as long as it's not a birth defect, disability, or a scar. It's how judgemental people can be that makes people desperate to look "acceptable".
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OK. I don't want to argue or derail the thread, but:

I've never in my adult life made fun of any individual, publicly or privately, and I strongly disapprove of it. I am making fun of contemporary fads and fashions.

I do not agree that self-mutilation, and clownish affectations of appearance, are products of striving for acceptance in a cruel and mocking world. I assert they are foolish displays of vanity that deserve to be mocked.

Your characterizing me as judgmental, is, in my judgment, judgmental.
 
a3sigma said:
OK. I don't want to argue or derail the thread, but:

I've never in my adult life made fun of any individual, publicly or privately, and I strongly disapprove of it. I am making fun of contemporary fads and fashions.

I do not agree that self-mutilation, and clownish affectations of appearance, are products of striving for acceptance in a cruel and mocking world. I assert they are foolish displays of vanity that deserve to be mocked.

Your characterizing me as judgmental, is, in my judgment, judgmental.
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You totally made fun of that woman in the elevator. You totally made fun of the guy trying to look like a teenager. I don't think I need to quote it. You may not make fun of them to their face but you make fun of them to others. People do it all the time and don't realize the effect it can have on their audience. Who are you to presume to know why people go under the knife?
 
arthwollipot said:
When there's a problem to be fixed, sure. But a woman with perfectly ordinary C-cups getting breast enlargement for no reason other than she thinks men go for big boobs? Unnecessary.
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Unnecessary, maybe, but people do unnecessary things all the time because they want to. My dad had a nice car, but he also had some disposable income and decided to buy a new, nicer looking one. I think it's completely unnecessary, and that money could have been better spent elsewhere. But it's his money, and he sets his own priorities for what makes him happy, I don't see why anyone else should determine those priorities for him.

If someone feels that he/she would look better with plastic surgery, and feels that that's worth the money, pain, time and risk, then that person clearly thinks it's worth it. If people tend to regret it afterward, then there's reason to suggest that they should be warned before hand, but if they tend to be happy with the results, what's the problem?
 
sgtbaker said:
You totally made fun of that woman in the elevator. You totally made fun of the guy trying to look like a teenager. I don't think I need to quote it. You may not make fun of them to their face but you make fun of them to others. People do it all the time and don't realize the effect it can have on their audience. Who are you to presume to know why people go under the knife?
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The topic of the thread is the advisability of cosmetic surgery. I've expressed my view that the outcome is often grotesque, as are the effects of other vanities. I've illustrated my view with a couple of examples.

If you find this offensive, you should by all means say so. And, I do take your point -- but, I disagree with it. There is a great deal of human behavior that is vain, foolish, and self defeating. I've even been known to do a few such things myself. Must we not point out that people sometimes make themselves look silly for fear hurting someone's feelings? How else can we advise people not to make themselves look silly?
 
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