Men and woo- I'd like both men and women to offer opinions on this

[rebecca]

Edit: Pretty nice interview, Rebecca. I'm interested- why do you say creationism "seemed like a guy belief" to you?

Thanks. I lumped creationism in with "guy beliefs" for the same reason I imagine Shermer did: because the most visible adherents are men.

Edit: I agree with your thesis, that it's a matter of belief in different things.

Actually, that was not my thesis, that was my initial belief. Examining the evidence led me to the opposite conclusion: women are more susceptible to crazy beliefs than are men.

That's funny; I've been on Internet forums since I was about 12 years old and have always taken alot of delight from flaming wars . I've always loved a good debate and a good fight but then, I've always been a tomboy .

Me, too. That's why I had to take special care to set aside my own personal preferences in favor of identifying what the majority of women were telling me they'd like to experience online.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Thanks. I lumped creationism in with "guy beliefs" for the same reason I imagine Shermer did: because the most visible adherents are men.

Which raises an interesting issue, if for say 9/11 conspiracies and creationism, why do the smaller percentage of believers that are men, make up so much of the out front rabid promoters of this?

Is it that when men go woo they go way woo? Is it competitiveness and a desire to be at the top?

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Which raises an interesting issue, if for say 9/11 conspiracies and creationism, why do the smaller percentage of believers that are men, make up so much of the out front rabid promoters of this?

Is it that when men go woo they go way woo? Is it competitiveness and a desire to be at the top?

Yeah, that's what I asked in my OP- how is it that even if a particular woo has as many female devotees as not, or a majority female membership, the leaders always seem to be men?

One explanaton that occurs to me as to why there as more Christian women than men but the ID-promoting politicians, pastors, scientists, activists and authors are almost all men is that religion is not the best place to find female leadership.

Sure, the Episocopalians, the Pentecostals and other churchs and denominations have high-ranking female clergy but the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox, the Southern Baptist Convention and many others don't even allow it.

So maybe that explains the paucity of female priests and pastors and other clergy advocating ID the way Jerry Falwell did.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Actually, that was not my thesis, that was my initial belief. Examining the evidence led me to the opposite conclusion: women are more susceptible to crazy beliefs than are men.

My gut feeling would actually tell me the same- but then I see the wild-eyed conspiracy freaks littering every public square in NYC every other weekend and I think there isn't that much of a difference after all.

And whether they are well-dressed and attractive college boys, middle-aged family men or wild-eyed homeless drug addicts, I think "Thank you, 9/11 conspiracists, you really even it out for us. Talk about crazy beliefs, you match psychics, mediums, divination, astrology and graphology by yourself!"

 

[ponderingturtle]

My gut feeling would actually tell me the same- but then I see the wild-eyed conspiracy freaks littering every public square in NYC every other weekend and I think there isn't that much of a difference after all.

And whether they are well-dressed and attractive college boys, middle-aged family men or wild-eyed homeless drug addicts, I think "Thank you, 9/11 conspiracists, you really even it out for us. Talk about crazy beliefs, you match psychics, mediums, divination, astrology and graphology by yourself!"

The thing is that Rebbeca's research showed that more women believe in 9/11 conspiracies than men. But more men seem to be in the rabbid groups.

This is true of 9/11 conspiracies as it is true for creationists.

So why do the men protest and show their beliefs in public?

 

[Elizabeth I]

Edit: Pretty nice interview, Rebecca. I'm interested- why do you say creationism "seemed like a guy belief" to you?

I don't know about Rebecca, but I would guess that it might be that creationism emphasizes the creation of woman from man's rib, and thus her natural subservience to him (if you believe that kind of thing.) We all know how uppity women can get if they're not kept in their place.

 

[Jeff Corey]

At the local New Community Cinema, someone is presenting the "Vagina Monologues" and the trouble and strife wanted to know if I wanted to see it.
So a bunch of replies spin through me gulliver.
"No, I'll wait for the dialogues, probably be more Platonic."
"Didn't know they were all that articulate, must be trained by Noam Chomsky, the cunning linguist."
Needless to say.

 

[quarky]

interesting question, Eeney.
Perhaps you're reading too much into it?

What if woo was analysed as any other product?
That it didn't have any extra weight or significance?

Guys like guns; women like household items.
Purely anecdotal, but in my experience, gay women are more into crystals than anyone.
Why? Crystals are rocks (guy stuff) but also pretty decorations (Gal stuff).

Monsters, like nessie and bigfoot are guy stuff...they want to go out and explore; kill something, and bring it home, hopefully to great praise.

Outer space stuff is male territory. Flying saucers are hi-tek muscle cars; metal and big engines.
Churchy stuff is definitely female. Women love church because you get to dress up. Guys hate to dress up. Guys that endure church are either hoping to score points with their wife, or become the next big mahoff.

Women like to get out of the house, same as guys. But they might be more inclined to get with a group of women doing women stuff (aromatherapy, aura fluffing, etc) than run around in the swamp looking for monsters.

isn't it all entertainment?
If seen as such, doesn't it break down in predictable ways?
Chic flicks are nuturing. Guy flicks involve guns and car wrecks.

males are drawn to violence; even if they are protesting violence...they dig the confrontational aspects of the peace rally.

Of course this is all too sterotypical, but generally, we aren't all that sophisticated.
people dedicate their lives to things they barely understand or believe in.
we are a bunch of predictable chumps, posing as original thinkers.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Hmmm no. I don't think this has any gender-related origins. I think that being preconceived to believe in superstitions is something more of a cultural aspect. If anything, what the researchs might find is that since a lot of "male" and "female" behaviours we learn are actually based on social behaviours that are adopted out of pure imitation; that this might lead to other things, including the predetermination to believe in woo. But sexual orientation itself being a main factor? I doubt it. Sometimes it might have to do with the personality of each individual, which makes him/her more prone to believe (or not believe) in woo. But again, the gender itself, I doubt it.

But if you ever find some compelling evidence to prove me wrong, by all means. I shall take a look at it (A critical look, that is)

 

[quarky]

Hmmm no. I don't think this has any gender-related origins. I think that being preconceived to believe in superstitions is something more of a cultural aspect. If anything, what the researchs might find is that since a lot of "male" and "female" behaviours we learn are actually based on social behaviours that are adopted out of pure imitation; that this might lead to other things, including the predetermination to believe in woo. But sexual orientation itself being a main factor? I doubt it. Sometimes it might have to do with the personality of each individual, which makes him/her more prone to believe (or not believe) in woo. But again, the gender itself, I doubt it.

But if you ever find some compelling evidence to prove me wrong, by all means. I shall take a look at it (A critical look, that is)

typical male answer.

I say we take a deep breath, and measure our penises.

then we will be more objective.

 

[RSLancastr]

Something I have noticed, and have mentioned on these forums a time or two: While men are definitely in the minority of believers in Browne, Edward, van Praagh and the lot, an inordinately large percentage of those men are gay.

I don't know if any study has been done to confirm or refute this, and it is altogether possible that I have come to this conclusion through confirmation bias, but I do not think so.

Assuming for the moment that this is true, why is this? If indeed believing in mediums is a largely "feminine" trait, then is it that more gay men are comfortable enough with their "feminine side" to embrace this belief? Or perhaps gay men aren't more prone to believe in it, but are less embarrassed than straight male believers to be open about the belief? Or, if it is a largely hard-wired feminine thing, do gay men share this hard-wiring to a greater degree than straight men?

It's an interesting side-issue to the male/female belief dbate.

 

[JoeEllison]

Well... I never thought of dividing up the stupid based on gender. That's saying something, considering I have a rant about how women and men see colors differently. No man would ever have come up with chartreuse, for instance.

 

[skeptifem]

i think its a matter of whats encouraged in society.

like women are encouraged to make family and relationships the most important thing in their lives, so woo involving stuff like talking to your dead family members is going to be more appealing. I dont think women are encouraged to think about the mechanics of 9/11 or species discovery or science in general, so that sort of woo attracts men instead.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

males are drawn to violence; even if they are protesting violence...they dig the confrontational aspects of the peace rally.

Rebecca and ponderingturtle suggested the same: in-your-face, confrontational, frothing-at-the mouth rabid, wild-eyed screaming woo, like 9/11 conspiracy nuttery, and "Jews taking over the world" conspiracy theories and Holocaust Revisionism is a guy thing. Even female 9/11 loons don't make themselves visible; there's a large disparity between belief and activism, enspecially in leadership.

I'm not sure I believe that, though. I've been to a handful of peace rallies and protests in my time, including the Republican Convention protests in 2004 (which I'm actually pretty embarrassed to admit to now- those are no doubt well-meaning people but, my god, what schmucks they can be), and none of the women I saw there looked shy about being there.

It's hard to say but I'd also say there were as many or only marginally more men at these events than women. Certainly the group I was with had mny more women than men- but that might be another example of girls banding together when in the minority.

Speaking of which, I finally found at least one outspoken female truther, besides Rosie and Erica Jong and that Judy Wood woman who spoke at Cooper Union :

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=conspiracy+wars

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Thinking out loud now....I went to a creationist talk at a church a few years ago and it seems split in gender. Creationists seem more confrontational and the women I know just aren't that into it. Quietly I think there may be more female creationists at least the women I know are less educated in science and haven't really thought about it (or care).

I cannot think of a single high-profile Creationist or IDer who is a woman. I've also noticed that of the Creationists who participate in on-line Crevo debate, the men are more likely to engage or confront, while the women will say they just want to have their opinion and express it without "getting jumped all over". And there are a lot of female Creationists, they just don't, or don't want to, engage in the debate.

You paragraph is spot on with my experiences.

 

[celticwarrior]

Jeff, you're a man. Tell me: according to you, why is it that creationists, Holocaust revisionists, skinheads, white supremacists, 9/11 conspiracy crazies, terrorists, crop circle people and UFO nuts are almost never women?

What is it about you guys? That makes you want to spam the Internet with unwatchable videos and hunt the forests, seas and skies for imaginary creatures?

Maybe this has to do with the innate differences between genders that are a result of evolution. I believe women, as a whole, are more likely to seek harmony in a group dynamic than men. If you notice the more dangerous the belief to society ostracizing you the less likely women are to publicly subscribe to it. There are very few women who publicly renounce the Holocaust but a lot more of them are Creationists. Just a thought.

CW

CW

 

[Cuddles]

There have been several threads on this topic before. The general consensus is simply that men and women tend to go for different kinds of woo, just as they tend to go for different things in other areas. Men generally seem to prefer conspiracies and aliens while women seem to prefer new age, feel-good type stuff. It's for the same reasons that men tend to prefer cars and bikes while women tend to prefer horses. When it comes down to it, no-one really knows exactly why. No doubt some of it's genetic, some of it's environmental and there are plenty of exceptions all over the place.

 

[Susan Gerbic]

Something I have noticed, and have mentioned on these forums a time or two: While men are definitely in the minority of believers in Browne, Edward, van Praagh and the lot, an inordinately large percentage of those men are gay.

This is really interesting if true. Maybe with the exception of Browne the "followers" are attracted to the psychics? Personally I think that men are just not into crying in public and wanting to talk (to dead or alive people) about their feelings. That just isn't cool.

And face it, if the psychic pulls out the story of how grandma ran over kitty with the truck when you were a little boy, that is going to cause some painful tears to flow. And no one esp. a manly man wants to be blubbering in front of everyone over kitty's loss.

Susan

 

[ponderingturtle]

There have been several threads on this topic before. The general consensus is simply that men and women tend to go for different kinds of woo, just as they tend to go for different things in other areas. Men generally seem to prefer conspiracies and aliens while women seem to prefer new age, feel-good type stuff. It's for the same reasons that men tend to prefer cars and bikes while women tend to prefer horses. When it comes down to it, no-one really knows exactly why. No doubt some of it's genetic, some of it's environmental and there are plenty of exceptions all over the place.

Check out Rebbeca's lecture. She looked for data about that, and found that aliens seems to be the only kind of woo where more men believe in it than women.

 

[Soapy Sam]

So how about sceptics?
Are male sceptics sceptical of Reiki and female sceptics sceptical of UFOs?