Melatonin - Woo or Not?

[McHrozni]

Doesn't Turkey meat have some melatonin in it, which is why it is claim that people who eat a big Thanksgiving meal get sleepy.

As an avid predator of turkeys, I can guarantee you it has much more to do with eating a large meal, which often includes alcohol than the contents of it's meat

McHrozni

 

[icerat]

It can also have the complete opposite effect: I've had themost vivid real dream ever while using melatonin. Some so real I became lucid and can remember the whole dream from start to finish (I think, kinda hard to tell though)

interesting. I recall that tryptophan, a melatonin precursor, has been linked to lucid dreaming. I mentioned that to a flatmate once and he started eating huge blocks of strong cheese before bed and then regaling us with tales of his dreams next morning ....

 

[leonAzul]

It is not woo, but it is also not a panacea.

For many persons the timely ingestion of melatonin can help to adjust their circadian rhythms, yet for others it triggers hypnagogic hallucinations and other REM related responses. Be aware that it may or may not produce the desired effect.

 

[Prometheus]

It is not woo, but it is also not a panacea.

For many persons the timely ingestion of melatonin can help to adjust their circadian rhythms, yet for others it triggers hypnagogic hallucinations and other REM related responses. Be aware that it may or may not produce the desired effect.

I tried it a while back, and it put me to sleep, but I had really weird, intense dreams.

 

[Deranged]

Works great, especially AT FIRST. Then your brain sort of adapts to it. I take 3mg
of NSI Melatonin every night w/some xanax but am switching to valium because.....valium has a longer half life . Meaning it lasts longer. With xanax, you wake up too early and oftentimes, nervously. Many swear by the Melatonin sublingual peppermint tablets that I use couple nights a week instead of the caps.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It is not woo. I use it all the time. Recently a doc told me it was woo. Always being aware of the possibility of confirmation bias I reviewed the literature again. There is sufficient scientific evidence it works.

The biggest problem is no guarantee what's in various supplement brands. Also, the dosages don't seem to be consistent.

I split the 3mg tabs in half and that works fine for me.

As for the dreams, that definitely occurs. REM sleep must be increased with it. I find that a good thing, not a bad one. With rare exception, I usually enjoy the dreams.

 

[Prometheus]

I was reading a story on cnn at work today that said exposure to blue light reduces the body's natural production of melatonin. Anyone heard this before?

 

[!Kaggen]

Thought I would bring up some speculation around the Pineal Gland, consciousness and dreams.

http://www.musingsonmind.org/featured/santafe

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3928131/C...Ayahuasca-Rationale-and-Regulatory-Challenges

 

[quarky]

5-htp is an interesting supplement too. A seratonin precursor, not to be taken lightly. More effective than tryptophan, imho.

Phenethylamine experimenters used to 'pre-load' with a dose of 5-htp, before taking mdma, or related compounds. Much more "bang" for the buck.

(This is in no way promotional. Ask your Doctor if tripping or rolling is for you.)

 

[Zeuzzz]

5-htp is an interesting supplement too. A seratonin precursor, not to be taken lightly. More effective than tryptophan, imho.

Very true.

Phenethylamine experimenters used to 'pre-load' with a dose of 5-htp, before taking mdma, or related compounds. Much more "bang" for the buck.

Many people are in two minds about this, some day ti works and others says it makes it worse. Most people use it after to ensure serotonin levels are replenished as quickly as possible.

 

[wolfgirl]

I had read that it would work for a while and then stop working. But in a lot of the research I read, that seemed to be an effect of taking too much of it. I had initially been taking the 5 mg. dose, thinking I needed a high dose. But my readings seemed to show that with melatonin, less is actually more, and small doses can actually work BETTER than large ones. So I tried splitting my tablets in smaller bits that looked to be about 1 mg. or less each. I've been taking those bits one at a time each night, and I still continue to sleep great most nights.

 

[Blackwell]

I had read that it would work for a while and then stop working. But in a lot of the research I read, that seemed to be an effect of taking too much of it. I had initially been taking the 5 mg. dose, thinking I needed a high dose. But my readings seemed to show that with melatonin, less is actually more, and small doses can actually work BETTER than large ones. So I tried splitting my tablets in smaller bits that looked to be about 1 mg. or less each. I've been taking those bits one at a time each night, and I still continue to sleep great most nights.

Eventually, you should be able to transition to the homeopathic melatonin...

 

[taiyo]

Wow there's lots of speculation here! I used to study at a university that had a sleep research centre, so we got some lectures on it and helped in some research studies. This is what I can remember from my lectures...melatonin is produced as you sleep and is involved in regulating the circadian rhythm. My understanding is that taking melatonin won't actually directly make you tired, but it might help get your rhythm back to normal, i.e. falling alseep earlier and waking up earlier. But it won't actually get you to sleep (though there's always the placebo effect!). Melatonin usually peaks a little while after you fall asleep and falls towards morning and should be at a trough level shortly after you wake up. However, quite a few hormones have strong circadian rhythms (cortisol, testosterone...), so just because a hormone fluctuates over the day doesn't mean it will directly make you tired or alert.

Sunlight has a massive effect on circadian rhythm - blind people have problems with sleeping and people who work in the arctic/antarctic circle in the dark winter have odd sleep/wake cycles. Basically, seeing some bright sunlight soon after you wake up 'resets' your body clock. If you don't get sunlight after you wake up, your daily cycle will lengthen and you will fall asleep later and later. I seem to remember that some researchers in London found a new photoreceptor in the eye that detects a particular wavelength of light, and this is the key regulating factor. There is also a 'clock' gene, and a polymorphism in this predisposes you to be a night owl or a morning person.

Some people have a genetic mutation which means they have major problems to the point where they can't hold down a job. They generally don't get treated with melatonin, they get told to sit in front of a daylight lamp for around 20 minutes first thing in the morning and that helps to reset the rhythm each day. I have trouble sleeping in the middle of summer (bright evenings) and the middle of winter (dark mornings), so I have a daylight lamp and that works fantastically. It needs to emit 10,000 lux of light.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I had read that it would work for a while and then stop working. But in a lot of the research I read, that seemed to be an effect of taking too much of it. I had initially been taking the 5 mg. dose, thinking I needed a high dose. But my readings seemed to show that with melatonin, less is actually more, and small doses can actually work BETTER than large ones. So I tried splitting my tablets in smaller bits that looked to be about 1 mg. or less each. I've been taking those bits one at a time each night, and I still continue to sleep great most nights.

You might try a different brand. There is no guarantee any of the supplements contain what they say they contain.

I've been using it for years and have never needed higher doses.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

What brand do you buy Skeptigirl? I'm sure some brands are more trustworthy?

 

[pakeha]

An interesting thread.
Someone mentioned melatonin is illegal in Germany.
Why is that?

 

[pakeha]

Ah, not illegal. Just not OTC, a prescription is required.

 

[shandyjan]

Could this help someone who wouldnt be taking it every night? For example, my son who works 12 hours shifts, and does 2 weeks days, 2 weeks nights. He has less problem sleeping in the daytime when on night shifts, than he does when he has to get up at 5am for a 6am start on day shift. He ends up so tired when on the day shift weeks.

 

[leonAzul]

Could this help someone who wouldnt be taking it every night? For example, my son who works 12 hours shifts, and does 2 weeks days, 2 weeks nights. He has less problem sleeping in the daytime when on night shifts, than he does when he has to get up at 5am for a 6am start on day shift. He ends up so tired when on the day shift weeks.

Sorry this went unanswered for so long.

Non-prescription supplements that include melatonin are marketed and demonstrated effective for that sort of use: accomodating a shift in sleep cycle whether from jet lag or changing shifts.

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec22/ch331/ch331v.html?qt=melatonin&alt=sh

 

[Meed]

It works for some people and doesn't work for others.

It has worked pretty dramatically for me (I'm a quasi-insomniac) until I build up tolerance and then it can be sort of hit or miss. I've resorted to double doses on occasion and I usually have a really light sleep and feel crappy the next day.

This is all anecdotal, but I'm 99% sure it's not a placebo, because I've tried a lot of sleep stuff.

melatonin is produced as you sleep and is involved in regulating the circadian rhythm. My understanding is that taking melatonin won't actually directly make you tired, but it might help get your rhythm back to normal, i.e. falling alseep earlier and waking up earlier.

Doesn't your circadian rhythm affect tiredness? I can't fall asleep if I'm not tired and melatonin definitely makes me tired. In fact the worst is if I take it and then still can't sleep, because I feel this annoying drowsiness.