Melatonin - Woo or Not?

[wolfgirl]

I've been suffering from increasingly severe insomnia for some time now. As I'm someone who doesn't like to take pills unless absolutely necessary, I've avoided that option. But it got so bad in the last month (menopause, maybe?) that I finally asked my doc about it. He discussed several options with me, and we settled on a low-dose of Xanax, as it appeared that anxiety may have been at the base of it. I took the Xanax a few times before bed, and I didn't notice much difference in my sleep...maybe just a little.

Trying to find some relief for me, my husband spoke to a pharmacist, who suggested I try melatonin, so he bought me some. I thought it seemed woo-ish (I almost rolled my eyes at him, but he had meant well, so I didn't), but I was so desperate that I took it. I slept great! After the first three nights, I felt like a whole new person. I had been feeling horrible for so long, I had forgotten what it felt like to feel normal. I'd been walking around like a zombie. I had commented to my husband that either I hadn't been dreaming or I wasn't remembering my dreams, and now I'm dreaming like normal again, too, which has to be good, right?

Reading up on melatonin, it seems that it's a hormone our bodies are supposed to produce on their own to regulate sleep rhythms, but sometimes we don't produce enough of it. It's much more appealing to me to supplement that than to take a drug that artificially puts me to sleep.

So my question is, is it woo? It sure worked for me, and I don't think it was a placebo effect because I expected the Xanax to work and it didn't, and I expected the melatonin not to work but it did.

I guess I don't really care if it's woo, as long as it makes me sleep! But I am curious.

 

[!Kaggen]

I used it a few times when traveling across time zones to get my clock back on track.
Works for me and the biology is understood.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Isn't melatonin what we release as it gets dark? If the contents aren't wooish (actually contain enough to have an effect), then maybe it was melatonin you lacked in your system?

There have been some inconclusive studies:

Nevertheless, our findings support the possibility that some patients with insomnia may benefit from treatment with exogenous melatonin,5 but controlled studies are needed to assess the nature and durability of such an effect.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/312/7041/1263

 

[Steelmage]

Doesn't Turkey meat have some melatonin in it, which is why it is claim that people who eat a big Thanksgiving meal get sleepy.

What I could find in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin

Melatonin (pronounced /ˌmɛləˈtoʊnɪn/ ( listen)), also known chemically as N-acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine,[1] is a naturally occurring hormone found in animals and in some other living organisms, including algae.[2] Circulating levels vary in a daily cycle, and melatonin is important in the regulation of the circadian rhythms of several biological functions.[3] Many biological effects of melatonin are produced through activation of melatonin receptors,[4] while others are due to its role as a pervasive and powerful antioxidant[5] with a particular role in the protection of nuclear and mitochondrial DNA.[6]

Products containing melatonin have been available as a dietary supplement in the United States since 1993.[7] Foods may contain trace amounts of melatonin, but no food has been found to elevate plasma melatonin levels.[8] Over-the-counter sales of the hormone remain illegal in many other countries, and the U.S. Postal Service lists melatonin among items prohibited by Germany.[9]

 

[Eos of the Eons]

I wouldn't go to wikipedia as a source. Turkey is actually known for Tryptophan as well. Tryptophan is used to make melatonin, as light wanes?

Here is something better on melatonin:

Melatonin production in humans begins with tryptophan, an amino acid.Amino acids are the protein building blocks that our bodies use to make proteins.Proteins make up living organisms. Serotonin, a neurotransmitter, is derived from tryptophan.

http://web1.caryacademy.org/chemist.../CompoundWebSites/2002/Melatonin/cheminfo.htm

In rats placed in continuous darkness for 6 days, there is a striking increase in the activity of melatonin-synthesizing-enzyme (hydroxyindole-0-methyl transferase) in the pineal gland, but no change in the activity of monoamine oxidase. Since melatonin appears to have a hormonal role in mammals, and its synthesis is confined to the pineal gland, the inhibition of hydroxyindole-O-methyl transferase by light may constitute a mechanism of neuroendocrine regulation.

http://www.nature.com/eye/journal/v21/n7/abs/6702597a.html

http://books.google.ca/books?id=K-q...esult&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

I lean towards 'not woo' about melatonin. It makes sense to me, even in the absence of lots of big studies, that dosing yourself with a neurotransmitter that is made at bedtime and dumped out of the body when you wake, can make your clock reset.

I've seen some anecdotal stuff that says the chinese extracted and purified melatonin from morning urine, and that it's a possible reason for some hindu yogis being said to consume their morning urine as well.

A

 

[cgordon]

Melanin is the pigment stuff ...

Melatonin is a natural hormone that helps the body regulate circadians (among other things).

I'd read, some time back, that the results and efficacy of ingested melatonin were unproven, but a quick glance at Wikipedia (linky) seems to indicate otherwise:

Melatonin is also synthesized by various plants, such as rice, and ingested melatonin has been shown to be capable of reaching and binding to melatonin binding sites in the brains of mammals

and

The use of melatonin as a drug can entrain (synchronize) the circadian clock to environmental cycles and can have beneficial effects for treatment of certain forms of insomnia. Its therapeutic potential may be limited by its short biological half-life, poor bioavailability, and the fact that it has numerous non-specific actions. In recent studies though, prolonged release melatonin has shown good results in treating insomnia in older adults.

Anecdotally, My wife and I have used it to get over jet lag effects, flying back and forth between the US and Europe, and to some efficacy. Outside of travel situations, however, I've not found it particularly helpful.

 

[oldhat]

It's often recommended to people with biopolar disorder to get regular sleep. Something about a mutation in the melatonin receptors or being extra sensitive to light.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

It's seems a lot less woo than a lot of junk out there! If I couldn't sleep until I took it, then it's all good if it's not overpriced! Just check who is making it and the ingredient list to make sure it's not some homeopathic version.

 

[Blackwell]

My wife started using melatonin about a week ago, after concerns that she was becoming too dependent on the doc-prescribed Ambien. Costco sells the big 2-pack bottles of 3mg melatonin, with an added "stress reliever" (theanine?)
Anyway, she says the melatonin has worked for her. I've also tried it 3 or 4 nights in the last week, but didn't notice any difference. She and I have very different sleep patterns, though. She has trouble falling and staying asleep, while I generally fall asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow, but I've had some fitful sleep lately, probably due to some shoulder pain from a biking injury.
I'll probably just switch to an additional Guinness before bedtime...

 

[Zeuzzz]

Melatonin is produced in the pineal gland it possesses the highest levels of serotonin anywhere in the body and serotonin is a crucial precursor for pineal melatonin.

The pineal gland of evolutionarily older animals, such as lizards and amphibians, is also called the "third" eye. Just like the two seeing eyes, the third eye possesses a lens, cornea, and retina. As animals climbed the evolutionary ladder, the pineal moved inward, deeper into the brain, more hidden and removed from outside influences. It is light-sensitive and helps regulate body temperature and skin coloration—two basic survival functions intimately related to environmental light. Melatonin, the primary pineal hormone, is present in primitive pineal glands. And human pineal glands have also been shown to be light sensitive, an release melatonin when in the dark. In effect you are tricking your body into thinking its night-time by taking the hormone melatonin as its one of the hormones released when we nod off.

The pineal also has been hypothesized to produce many other interesting psychoactive neuro-transmitters/chemicals. But they are not really relevant to this thread...

 

[Zeuzzz]

Why would it be woo anyway?

Because its available OTC? Or just that its not a regularly prescribed medication?

And I'm amazed Xanax didn't work for you. 1-2mg of Xanax and I have the best 8-10 hours sleep of my life every time. Temazepam might be better for you.

 

[godless dave]

I lean towards 'not woo' about melatonin. It makes sense to me, even in the absence of lots of big studies, that dosing yourself with a neurotransmitter that is made at bedtime and dumped out of the body when you wake, can make your clock reset.

Ingesting neurotransmitters doesn't help get them to the brain, because they don't pass the blood-brain barrier. But melatonin is a hormone, so overall your statement is correct.

 

[bruto]

My wife uses melatonin occasionally, and says it works well, but that she doesn't dream, so doesn't use it routinely. It seems to have no other side effects, and as far as I know there's no particular woo in the stuff.

 

[JWideman]

Not woo, but the dosage can be tricky. Too much melatonin in your system, and it won't work anymore.

 

[Beerina]

I took it and it seemed to work. I thought I had read that people who took it fell asleep in 6 minutes, as opposed to 20 on average, so I thought it was more sciency.

 

[Zeuzzz]

Not woo, but the dosage can be tricky. Too much melatonin in your system, and it won't work anymore.

This is a very good point: Do NOT go out any buy the HUGE dosage over the counter melatonin supplements. Studies have shown that just 0.1-0.3mg dosages are just as effective as higher doses, take more and it will have no real extra effect. So best not really go fiddling with huge amounts of natural hormones, although side effects are hardly ever reported. Most of the shops sell 1mg or 3mg capsules. I used to open up a 1mg capsule and use 0.25mg dosage if my sleep was really bad and that worked just as good as the higher doses.

 

[Zeuzzz]

My wife uses melatonin occasionally, and says it works well, but that she doesn't dream, so doesn't use it routinely. It seems to have no other side effects, and as far as I know there's no particular woo in the stuff.

It can also have the complete opposite effect: I've had themost vivid real dream ever while using melatonin. Some so real I became lucid and can remember the whole dream from start to finish (I think, kinda hard to tell though)

 

[quarky]

I'd heard that it might adjust urine production timing favorably, so one needn't wake up to pee a lot. Seems it was also claimed to have pro-sexual properties. Odd that it comes in 2 dose sizes; one is six times more than the other. (0.5 mg versus 3 mg)

 

[Zeuzzz]

Found it, here is the study showing much lower than often taken dosages are needed:

Melatonin works as sleep aid in small doses, study confirms; but commercially available pills have too much of the supplement
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2005/melatonin.html

A new study by MIT scientists and colleagues confirms that melatonin is an effective sleep aid for older insomniacs and others. Misuse of the hormone had led some to question its efficacy, but the latest work (published in the February issue of Sleep Medicine Reviews) could jump-start interest in the dietary supplement and help more people get a good night's sleep.

In earlier research, scientists led by Professor Richard Wurtman, principal investigator for the current study, showed that only a small dose of melatonin (about 0.3 milligrams) is necessary for a restful effect. Taken in that quantity, it not only helps people fall asleep, but also makes it easier for them to return to sleep after waking up during the night--a problem for many older adults.

The researchers also found, however, that commercially available melatonin pills contain 10 times the effective amount. And at that dose, "after a few days it stops working," said Wurtman, director of MIT's Clinical Research Center and the Cecil H. Green Distinguished Professor. When the melatonin receptors in the brain are exposed to too much of the hormone, they become unresponsive.