Mechanisms of Remote Viewing

[athon]

With all of this RV talk, it got me thinking (in a 'speculative fiction' frame of mind).

What are the mechanisms for remote viewing?

Now, assuming that RV interacts with the laws of nature as they stand (surely RV advocates aren't prompting us to throw out all of the textbooks on physics, chemistry and biology?), how might it happen?

If we have a box at Point A. Inside the box is a lightsource and an object. A remote viewer is standing over the horizon at Point B. From my understanding, that RV'er should be able to discern through some means what is in that box.

Now perhaps it is either an emotional sensation or a mental image that occurs. Physically how could this be explained if you were writing a story on it?

Regarding most paranormal events, I can usually come up with some sort of 'bent logic' - ghosts, ESP, telekinesis...but I admit here I'm stuck. Do all objects emit an as yet unqualified energy? A radiation, perhaps? How could this be discerned by an individual? How does this information get received? How can we discern one source from another if this energy or information does not reduce over time or distance? Does it affect neurons? Endocrine system (hence 'emotional' reception)?

It amazes me that people always stop at 'look at the figures'. I never could do just that. Assuming that RV exists, HOW does it work? And why do believers stop where they do?

Surely there must be some theory.

Athon

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Forget some unknown type of energy. Never gonna work. I'd go with some kind of Matrix idea. The Matrix knows all. The viewer has some way to tap into the Matrix. What I can never figure out is how the viewer addresses particular information in the Matrix, how he homes in on the thing he wants to view or the person whose mind he wants to read.

~~ Paul

 

[Vitnir]

To try to make a theory that would both allow RV and Einstein in the same room would be futile. It's like the people that calculates the destructive power of a imperial destroyer from Star Wars. Or to try to figure out how hyperspace works from watching Babylon 5 and the jump gates. Emm hello it's Sci-Fi, it doesn't work as we know it.

Otherwise I would have to go for an "source of energy never encountered before" like Mr Spock used to say. (or something to that effect)

 

[athon]

I was wondering this for two reasons - one, for any possible spec' fiction ideas. But mainly I was wondering if anybody who saw credibility in the whole RV concept ever thought past the initial steps.

I mean, ever since I was a kid I wondered what was beyond the initial 'but how?'. When I learned about genetics, I hungered to understand how cystic fibrosis worked, or why trisomy 21 gave people the characteristics of Downs Syndrome.

Is this what truly separates skeptics from believers? Skeptics never stop asking 'how?' and 'why?'. Let's assume some of these paranormal beliefs exist. What are their mechanisms?

Hello? RV believers?

**crickets chirping**

Athon

 

[T'ai Chi]

Hello? RV believers?

**crickets chirping**

Athon

Um, not to be stupid, but I will be anyway, calling out RV proponents here is kind of, well, you chirping like a cricket.

Here you are preaching to the Skeptical Choir. If you want to ask RV proponents questions, you could try posting to a RV discussion board, and then report back your results here.

 

[Darat]

Forget some unknown type of energy. Never gonna work. I'd go with some kind of Matrix idea. The Matrix knows all. The viewer has some way to tap into the Matrix. What I can never figure out is how the viewer addresses particular information in the Matrix, how he homes in on the thing he wants to view or the person whose mind he wants to read.

~~ Paul

Paul - did you come up with this idea on your own or had you read Psitech's website? (http://www.psitech.net/)

 

[athon]

I know - it's like 'if you want to go fishing, go to where there's fish'. But there were a few who gave the idea possibility, and I wanted to know if anybody here could describe a possible mechanism for it.

I'll go back into the kennel now...

Athon

 

[Darat]

Um, not to be stupid, but I will be anyway, calling out RV proponents here is kind of, well, you chirping like a cricket.

Here you are preaching to the Skeptical Choir. If you want to ask RV proponents questions, you could try posting to a RV discussion board, and then report back your results here.

Why? There are people posting on this board who not only claim RV exists & are able to RV but also claim to be sceptics.

Seems a good place to start a sceptical discussion about it.

 

[davidsmith73]

I know - it's like 'if you want to go fishing, go to where there's fish'. But there were a few who gave the idea possibility, and I wanted to know if anybody here could describe a possible mechanism for it.

I'll go back into the kennel now...

Athon

You don't ask easy questions do you !

My personal view is that the concepts on the nature of experience itself must change in order for a theory to emerge.

At the moment we don't see experiences as "things" with an existence in the same sense as physical "things" such as an electron.

If experiences are "things" capable of direct interaction just like physical things then they might become amenable to theories that describe their interactions.

 

[Darat]

Davidsmith73 - can you expand on what you mean by :

...snip...

At the moment we don't see experiences as "things" with an existence in the same sense as physical "things" such as an electron.

...snip...

?

 

[Darat]

With all of this RV talk, it got me thinking (in a 'speculative fiction' frame of mind).

What are the mechanisms for remote viewing?

...snip...

Surely there must be some theory.

Athon

Well these sites seem to offer explanations but somehow I get the impression that they would rather remain a bit vague... now why would that be... which is strange since they seem very adamant that if you are willing to pay them they can train you to RV.

http://www.psitech.net/

http://www.crviewer.com/crviewer/trainingindex.asp

https://www.trvuniversity.com/preloader.html?entry=guest

http://www.remoteviewing2003.com/pages/1/index.htm

http://www.remoteviewers.com/htms/updated/forms/intro_home_study_ordering.htm


And after reading all these sites I just wonder how there can be any missing people or mysteries in the world.




(Edited to correct "of" to "or")

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Darat asked:

Paul - did you come up with this idea on your own or had you read Psitech's website?

Gee, now that you mention it, I had read their site awhile back. But I didn't remember that. The Matrix theory is so obvious. It just has to be right. Occam's Razor and all that, don't you know.

~~ Paul

 

[Darat]

Darat asked:
Gee, now that you mention it, I had read their site awhile back. But I didn't remember that. The Matrix theory is so obvious. It just has to be right. Occam's Razor and all that, don't you know.

~~ Paul

Well you know what they say "Great minds think alike".

I am always reminded when see or hear that phrase a friend’s mother's rejoinder to that which was "And duffers seldom differ".



(Duffer, in case it is mainly a UK word, is an old slang word for someone who is stupid and slow to learn.)

 

[Mercutio]

Um, not to be stupid, but I will be anyway, calling out RV proponents here is kind of, well, you chirping like a cricket.

Here you are preaching to the Skeptical Choir. If you want to ask RV proponents questions, you could try posting to a RV discussion board, and then report back your results here.

Can't they see this board anyway? From wherever they are, without an internet connection? Couldn't they be watching (excuse me, viewing) me typing this even before I submit it?

 

[Boo]

athon,

If you are going to go with Sci-fi concept already in place then "use the force". All things are contained within the force and force is in all things. You just need to be sensitive enough to 'see' it.

Disclaimer: This in no way describes an actual belief system I hold and is merely a point for discussion.



Boo

 

[bratok]

The idea behind RV is that we do have something more then just a phisical body, let it be a "sole" or some "thin bodies" or "astral bodies". Anyway, it is believed to be "something" immortal, that is connected to our phisical body and is controling it.

When the phisical body dies, this "something", the real personality, separates from it and floats into the astral ( remamber the NEDs and their tunels ) and later, possibly, once again incornated in a yet-to-be-born body, so to say. That explains the past-life and incornation theory.

This "something" also remambers everything about all out past lives, only this information is locked. While it can be unlocked in certain meditations. For example, during such meditation, one person remambered that he served on a ship that went down in WWI. He also remambered his name and the ships name. After checking the records, it appeared that there really was this ship and that someone under this name served on it... How else could he know it?

Back to RV and OBE. It is believed that this "something" can also come out of a sleeping body, while still being attached to it, with something that looks like a silver cord, and wounder around. Many people sometimes remamber seeing their sleeping body like from above. Anyway, when one comes out of a body, he can fly where ever he wants, look at something and tell about it, when he returns.

See http://www.astralforum.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=6


Thanx

 

[davidsmith73]

Davidsmith73 - can you expand on what you mean by :

At the moment we don't see experiences as "things" with an existence in the same sense as physical "things" such as an electron.

I don't think I can in such as way as to give you a complete and coherent viewpoint. It just seems that the intuitive way to deal with all forms of psi phenomena (telepathy, RV, precognition, PK) is to describe them in terms of a direct interactions between conscious states.

Perhaps a starting point would be to take the analogous concept of a field and apply it to consciousness. Someones conscious state at any point in time would consist of a holistic field of experiences which could interact with other conscious fields in such a way as to effect their form, ie their experiential content. If we take ganzfeld telepathy, the senders conscious field would consist of experincing the video clip and the receivers conscious field would consist of, well not much, except their internal imagery. If the senders conscious field actually interacts in a real way with the receivers conscious field then this interaction could in some way create an experiential "bond" or "resonance" in the same sense as a physical interaction which transfers information between the two fields.

Ok a bit crazy I admit but we've got to start somewhere.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Okay, David, but two issues. First, how do the conscious fields find one another in order to interact? Second, how does the information encoded in the sender's field get decoded by the receiver?

Where are these fields, by the way?

~~ Paul

 

[davidsmith73]

Where are these fields, by the way?

~~ Paul [/B][/QUOTE]

Thats the only question I can attempt to answer I'm afraid. I do not think they are anywhere in space or time. So the question of "where" does not really apply.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Paul, the following may help:

"Our "local realistic" view of the world assumes that phenomena are separated by time and space and that no influence can travel faster than the speed of light. Quantum nonlocality proves that these assumptions are incorrect, and that there is a principle of holistic interconnectedness operating at the quantum level which contradicts the localistic assumptions of classical, Newtonian physics." for more, see: http://www.cosmopolis.com/topics/quantum-nonlocality.html


"This prohibition against superluminal communication, as stated above, is a part of standard quantum mechanics. However, this prohibition is broken if quantum mechanics is allowed to be slightly "non-linear", a technical term meaning that when quantum waves are superimposed they may generate a small cross-term not present in the standard formalism. Steven Weinberg, Nobel laureate for his theoretical work in unifying the electromagnetic and weak interactions, investigated a theory which introduces small non-linear corrections to standard quantum mechanics [13]. The onset of non-linear behavior is seen in other areas of physics, e.g., laser light in certain media, and, he suggested, might also be present but unnoticed in quantum mechanics. Weinberg's non-linear QM subtly alters certain properties of the standard theory, producing new physical effects that can be detected through precise measurements.

Two years after Weinberg's non-linear QM theory was published, Joseph Polchinski published a paper demonstrating that Weinberg's non-linear corrections upset the balance in quantum mechanics that prevents superluminal communication using EPR experiments [14]. Through the new non-linear effects, separated measurements on the same quantum system begin to "talk" to each other and faster-than-light and/or backward-in-time signaling becomes possible. Polchinski describes such an arrangement as an "EPR telephone" For more see: http://www.npl.washington.edu/npl/int_rep/qm_nl.html