Materialists......

[nescafe]

Just as a matter of interest....

Is anything the opposite of anything?

Can I have some examples, please? I seem to remember learning at school when I was six that up was actually the opposite of down. I must have remembered wrong, though, because there are so many intelligent people here that they couldn't possibly all be saying something really, really silly, could they?

I would say existence and non-existence, but some of the weirder things that Quantum Mechanics implies for really short timespans and really small lengths says I am wrong (photons appearing out of nothing, quantum foam, and all that jazz).

The empty set and the set of all sets that are not the empty set, but that is just mathematics.

 

[I less than three logic]

Only if you have no idea what "beg the question" means.

"Begging the question" is to assume ones answer. Asking "Does life have a meaning?" cannot possibly be begging the question.

Yes, you are right. It appears I miss-copy and pasted. The meaning of life should be in the personal definition and semantics.

OTOH, asking why the universe exists implies a reason must exist. There is no logic supporting that assumption. First you must support the assumption there is a reason before asking what the reason is.

Variations
In a related sense, the phrase is occasionally used to mean "avoiding the question". Those who use this variation are explaining that the argument lacks a premise, and they have missed the self-circularity of the argument because of it.

Fowler's Modern English Usage classifies begging the question in a somewhat different fashion (for example, in contrast to the meanings from Merriam-Webster, the Oxford English Dictionary, and the American Heritage Dictionary). Fowler states that it is "The fallacy of founding a conclusion on a basis that as much needs to be proved as the conclusion itself." This is more commonly known as the Fallacy of many questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question#Variations

You less than three logic, yes.

Like I’ve already said my name makes perfect sense once you connect the dots. If you can not figure out the meaning, that is your own failing. Perhaps I’ll walk you through it sometime if you are still unable to figure it out, but for now I’ll leave you thinking you have somehow insulted me about the incoherence of the name I’ve chosen.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

I would say existence and non-existence, but some of the weirder things that Quantum Mechanics implies for really short timespans and really small lengths says I am wrong (photons appearing out of nothing, quantum foam, and all that jazz).

The empty set and the set of all sets that are not the empty set, but that is just mathematics.

Not "up and down", then?

 

[UndercoverElephant]

No, if anything, further education complicates things. Which is why most believers and philosophers usually try to excessively simplify things... like boiling complex relationships down to elementary-school "opposites."

I don't this board is ready for Derrida, yet.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

They just have a different way of looking at them than you.

So do creationists.

It might even be possible for you to consider their perspective.

Erm, so being an atheist for 33 years, having 3 science A-levels and a science HND, having read New Scientist for 15 years, having been the science and skepticism moderator at www.infidels.org and having spent the last two years studying philosophy of science...you don't think I've "considered their perspective"?

Ok then. Whatever you say, I'm sure it's not silly.

You might even come to an understanding of it.

Hmmmm. You're right! I just don't understand materialists. That'll be it then.

Then you wouldn't have to call everyone "silly" or worse.

Sure. It's not silly to say up isn't the opposite of down.

I'm beginning to think I should have take lifegazers advice.

 

[Tricky]

Not "up and down", then?

Nope.

Now since we were earlier discussing binary, perhaps you can tell me the opposite of 1. Is it:

a) 0
b) -1
c) 1/1
d) many
e) all
f) infinity

 

[nescafe]

Now since we were earlier discussing binary, perhaps you can tell me the opposite of 1. Is it:

a) 0
b) -1
c) 1/1
d) many
e) all
f) infinity

um... g?
Q!

 

[Tricky]

Sure. It's not silly to say up isn't the opposite of down.

But this is not the issue. You earlier seemed to imply that because something was "subjective" it could not also be "objective". As my examples showed you, something can be up and yet also be down. Something can be hot and also cold. Just because they are linguistic opposites does not mean they cannot exist in both states based on perspective. With all of your education and your storied history, it puzzles me that you object to this concept.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Is anything the opposite of anything?

No, more or less. Everything is a spectrum, pretty much.

~~ Paul

 

[UndercoverElephant]

No, more or less. Everything is a spectrum, pretty much.

~~ Paul

Right. OK. Whatever. There are no opposites. Deep, man. Way too deep for Geoff. No opposites. Right Ok. No opposites. Jeez.....and I really believed in opposites. Funny how you can be so wrong about something. I mean...believing there are such a thing as opposites! What must I have been thinking. Anyway, glad I know better now. No opposites. Nope. None. Only "spectrums". Right.

Lifegazer was indeed correct.

 

[DreadNiK]

Personally I'm waiting for an example of a problem that was solved not with science but with metaphysics.

Because he has all but admitted there is nothing important to be found from looking into the mind/body 'problem', but he does claim that there can be important metaphysical problems.

And yes, they do have to have a measurable empirical effect, or they are not important problems.

 

[Tricky]

Right. OK. Whatever. There are no opposites. Deep, man. Way too deep for Geoff. No opposites. Right Ok. No opposites. Jeez.....and I really believed in opposites. Funny how you can be so wrong about something. I mean...believing there are such a thing as opposites! What must I have been thinking. Anyway, glad I know better now. No opposites. Nope. None. Only "spectrums". Right.

Only linguistic opposites. I notice you didn't answer my question on what was is the opposite of "1". Do you believe that there is no such thing as the opposite of "1", or is the question too silly for a man of your broad training?

 

[Belz...]

Did you use science (only) to answer these questions?

Nope. Did you use it to formulate your questions ?

 

[hammegk]

Only linguistic opposites. I notice you didn't answer my question on what was is the opposite of "1". Do you believe that there is no such thing as the opposite of "1", or is the question too silly for a man of your broad training?

Your contributions to philosophy threads sometimes give one pause, no doubt ...


We could say the opposite of 1 is ~1.

Anything else you'd like to know?

Personally I'm waiting for an example of a problem that was solved not with science but with metaphysics.

The only thing metaphysical concepts could add to human decision making is limiting or expanding the scope of options considered, sfaik. That's also what science provides.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Only linguistic opposites. I notice you didn't answer my question on what was is the opposite of "1". Do you believe that there is no such thing as the opposite of "1", or is the question too silly for a man of your broad training?

Are you seriously asking me what I think the opposite of 1 is?

After I have spent five years repeating: "0 = 1 + -1"?

What do you think I think the opposite of 1 is?

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Nope. Did you use it to formulate your questions ?

Nope.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Personally I'm waiting for an example of a problem that was solved not with science but with metaphysics.

Because he has all but admitted there is nothing important to be found from looking into the mind/body 'problem', but he does claim that there can be important metaphysical problems.

And yes, they do have to have a measurable empirical effect, or they are not important problems.

Does whether or not we nuke iran to a smouldering wreck have any empirical effect?

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Does whether or not U.S. soldiers murder innocent children in revenge for roadside bombs planted by somebody else have any empirical effect?

Do we use science to decide whether this is the right thing to do?

 

[SuperCoolGuy]

Are you seriously asking me what I think the opposite of 1 is?

After I have spent five years repeating: "0 = 1 + -1"?

What do you think I think the opposite of 1 is?

According to binary language, the opposite of 1 is 0.

According to the English language, it is not terribly straightforward to say that "subjective" and "objective" are opposites.

Is it so wrong to say that subjective experiences are built upon objective phenomenon (note that a synonym for objective is "material")?

 

[I less than three logic]

Are you seriously asking me what I think the opposite of 1 is?

After I have spent five years repeating: "0 = 1 + -1"?

What do you think I think the opposite of 1 is?

I was unaware that opposite was a mathematical term. A number can have a negative, which when added together you get 0. They can also have a reciprocal that results in 1 when multiplied together.

However, opposite is not a term I am familiar with. I suppose the opposite of x = 1, mathematically speaking, would be x ≠ 1. In which case, every number, except 1 itself, would satisfy the equation. Be it -1 or 42.