"Master Race" - A Term Not Used By The Nazis

[SpuriusMaximus]

Italians and Japanese were considered Aryans too, actually.

It's funny, really.

On one hand the Japanese -- a people which is really every bit as Altaic as the Chinese -- got classified as short, black-haired, slanted-eyed Aryans just because they wanted to ally with the Germans and had a fleet. On the other hand the Chinese, who had been courted heavily by the Germans up to that point for their resources, got downgraded to subhumans just because the Japanese really wanted to attack them.

On yet another hand, really, in Europe the Slavs have just as solid a claim as the Germanic populations to being the descendants of the proto-indo-european populations (if on the other side of the satem-centum linguistic split), but got downgraded to subhumans anyway. The Persians on the other hand got courted heavily by Germany and considered real Aryans (well, ok, so they _are_ the real Aryans) although AFAIK they're on the same side of the satem-centum line as the Slavs.

It was a real mess, really.

But, anyway, the Italians and Japanese were considered super-human master-race too.

 

[drkitten]

They referred to Jews, Slavs, etc. as "Untermenschen" or "subhumans", so they probably thought of themselves as "Ubermenschen" or "superhumans".

Doesn't follow. The term "subhumans" has been used a lot with respect to colonial races (e.g. Africans, Asians, Native Americans, Native Australians, &c.) since the 18th century, which doesn't necessarily mean that Englishmen in 1750 considered themselves to be superhuman, just "human."

The word "Uebermensch" of course comes from Nietzsche, who was very influential in Nazi theory. But I don't have any actual citations to hand of them using the word itself.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

I think the main, and most offensive, implication there is simply "group X is _much_ better than group Y". Exactly which words you use to describe them, is IMHO less important than the clear X>Y message.

Plus, labelling one side "subhuman" is insulting as it is, regardless of how the other side is labelled.

And, yes, you're right, it was heavily used in the 18'th and 19'th centuries. But IMHO that in itself is the best illustration of what's wrong with it. If you look at what it was used to justify, well, I rest my case

 

[dudalb]

Then there is that old joke about a True Aryan is Blond Like Hitler, Slim Like Goering, Tall Like Goebbles and with a Heroic Physique like Himmler....

 

[Slayhamlet]

Italians and Japanese were considered Aryans too, actually.

Not really. Those who were considered allies of National Socialism were given honorary "Aryan" political/social status, but this was purely a pragmatic thing. They were generally still not allowed to breed with "pure-bred" Nordic Aryans. Though the Japanese were sometimes called the "Herrenvolk des Orients", suggesting that they were considered to be somewhat comparable to the Aryans, but definitely still a separate race.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

The word "Uebermensch" of course comes from Nietzsche, who was very influential in Nazi theory. But I don't have any actual citations to hand of them using the word itself.

But the Nazis certainly used the term, didn't they? (I've always read that they cited Nietzshe and the notion of the ubermensch, and I don't see how they could have done so without using the term itself.)

FWIW, I just read a quote from William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich saying that Hitler used the term "Lords of the Earth" repeatedly in Mein Kampf. It seems to me that whatever the German words were could as accurately be translated as "master race". And also a reference to the masters enslaving the subject races.

ETA: It seems that the OP is simply wrong. Of course back in post 5, garethdjb totally pwned Mondial's OP.

 

[Rasmus]

But the Nazis certainly used the term, didn't they? (I've always read that they cited Nietzshe and the notion of the ubermensch, and I don't see how they could have done so without using the term itself.)

Purely from my poor yet German memory: No, I don't recall seeing the term "Übermensch" being used - with a possible exception being Nietzsche-Quotes.

Makes sense, too:Aryans were the master race, superior to other humans. An Untermensch isn't human at all. Also, they might have understood Nietzsche well enough to understand that one becomes an Übermensch individually. There is no Nietzsche-esk Over-Race.

FWIW, I just read a quote from William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich saying that Hitler used the term "Lords of the Earth" repeatedly in Mein Kampf. It seems to me that whatever the German words were could as accurately be translated as "master race". And also a reference to the masters enslaving the subject races.

I found it difficult to find a German version online, but "Lords of the Earth" would be "Masters of the Earth" which doesn't necessarily carry racial overtones.

But you are right, the precise choice of words doesn't make a difference.

ETA: It seems that the OP is simply wrong. Of course back in post 5, garethdjb totally pwned Mondial's OP.

 

[gumboot]

It is very unlikely that they did use the term "Master Race", they tended to speak and write German.

What this guy said.

 

[Lucian]

But the Nazis certainly used the term, didn't they? (I've always read that they cited Nietzshe and the notion of the ubermensch, and I don't see how they could have done so without using the term itself.)

FWIW, I just read a quote from William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich saying that Hitler used the term "Lords of the Earth" repeatedly in Mein Kampf. It seems to me that whatever the German words were could as accurately be translated as "master race". And also a reference to the masters enslaving the subject races.

ETA: It seems that the OP is simply wrong. Of course back in post 5, garethdjb totally pwned Mondial's OP.

Herren der Erde? A couple quotes from Mein Kampf where he uses the phrase:

The trend of development which we are now experiencing would, if allowed to go on unhampered, lead to the realization of the Pan-Jewish prophecy that the Jews will one day devour the other nations and become lords of the earth.
http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv2ch05.html

As opposed to this, we National Socialists must hold unflinchingly to our aim in foreign policy, namely, to secure for the German people the land and soil to which they are entitled on this earth. And this action is the only one which, before God and our German posterity, would make any sacrifice of blood seem justified: before God, since we have been put on this earth with the mission of eternal struggle for our daily bread, beings who receive nothing as a gift, and who owe their position as lords of the earth only to the genius and the courage with which they can conquer and defend it; and before our German posterity in so far as we have shed no citizen's blood out of which a thousand others are not bequeathed to posterity. The soil on which some day German generations of peasants can beget powerful sons will sanction the investment of the sons of today, and will some day acquit the responsible statesmen of blood-guilt and sacrifice of the people, even if they are persecuted by their contemporaries.
http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv2ch14.html

 

[lionking]

I think there should be a rule about trolls opening a thread and not contributing. At least 9/11 Investigator made an attempt to support his ludicrous posts.

 

[Yoink]

From Mein Kampf:

It was not by mere chance that the first forms of civilization arose
there where the Aryan came into contact with inferior races, subjugated
them and forced them to obey his command. The members of the inferior
race became the first mechanical tools in the service of a growing
civilization.

Thereby the way was clearly indicated which the Aryan had to follow. As
a conqueror, he subjugated inferior races and turned their physical
powers into organized channels under his own leadership, forcing them to
follow his will and purpose. By imposing on them a useful, though hard,
manner of employing their powers he not only spared the lives of those
whom he had conquered but probably made their lives easier than these
had been in the former state of so-called 'freedom'. While he ruthlessly
maintained his position as their master, he not only remained master but
he also maintained and advanced civilization. For this depended
exclusively on his inborn abilities and, therefore, on the preservation
of the Aryan race as such.

Oh no...no belief in the superiority of the Aryan race at ALL!

 

[ZirconBlue]

Italians and Japanese were considered Aryans too, actually.

It's funny, really.

On one hand the Japanese -- a people which is really every bit as Altaic as the Chinese -- got classified as short, black-haired, slanted-eyed Aryans just because they wanted to ally with the Germans and had a fleet. On the other hand the Chinese, who had been courted heavily by the Germans up to that point for their resources, got downgraded to subhumans just because the Japanese really wanted to attack them.
On yet another hand, really, in Europe the Slavs have just as solid a claim as the Germanic populations to being the descendants of the proto-indo-european populations (if on the other side of the satem-centum linguistic split), but got downgraded to subhumans anyway. The Persians on the other hand got courted heavily by Germany and considered real Aryans (well, ok, so they _are_ the real Aryans) although AFAIK they're on the same side of the satem-centum line as the Slavs.

It was a real mess, really.

But, anyway, the Italians and Japanese were considered super-human master-race too.

Hey, just how many hands do you have, anyway? I don't think the Nazis would approve of people with more than two hands.

 

[332nd]

Deleted because I forgot to read the thread..

 

[lionking]

Deleted because I forgot to read the thread..

Doesn't stop a lot of people (me included at times).

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Hey, just how many hands do you have, anyway? I don't think the Nazis would approve of people with more than two hands.

Obviously the product of an advanced neo-Nazi eugenics program.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Hey, just how many hands do you have, anyway? I don't think the Nazis would approve of people with more than two hands.

Bah, did I say I was using _my_ hands? The manual labour stuff is for eastern european slaves

 

[Mondial]

During world war 2 the US armed forces were segregated according to race and in several states it was against the law for a white to marry a black so where do Americans get off with their holier than thou attitude?

 

[Filippo Lippi]

During world war 2 the US armed forces were segregated according to race and in several states it was against the law for a white to marry a black so where do Americans get off with their holier than thou attitude?

Apologists for that behaviour will be dealt with in the same manner as your ridiculous claims are dealt with.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

During world war 2 the US armed forces were segregated according to race and in several states it was against the law for a white to marry a black so where do Americans get off with their holier than thou attitude?

I'm not aware of any government plan in the USA to kill off a population, at that time. Like, say, the nazis had for the Polish people.

But yes, racism is bad wherever it happens, and the USA certainly doesn't get a blank cheque to do it.

Still, even if neither is "good", we can still rank who is "worse" between two a-holes. And the nazis were really the bigger a-hole.

 

[332nd]

During world war 2 the US armed forces were segregated according to race and in several states it was against the law for a white to marry a black so where do Americans get off with their holier than thou attitude?

They get off at the point where my grandma and granddad weren't killed for it. (Granted some were pissed at grandma while granddad was fighting the Nazis in their place, but many disagreed with their pisstivity so it worked out locally, granted it took a while for things to get better but the key point is they got to live to see it.)