Major Homeopathy Test about to be conducted in Greece?

[snoop_doxie]

Ray T.

Please help me understand your postings. I thought your first post was an announcement (from you) about Mr. Vithoulkas' upcoming Million Dollar Challenge. You, (Ray T.) had some information that Mr. Randi's comments in SWIFT March 14 were premature and the test had not been abandoned by the Greek homeopathy community.

Hello Everyone

According to what I consider to be credible sources, there is a forthcoming major homeopathy test to be conducted in Greece.

To my knowledge Mr. Vithoulkas has applied for the Million Dollar Challenge and a hosting institution for the test has been found.

Moreover, I am informed that never has this test been abandoned by the Greek homeopathy community as it is claimed by Mr. Randi (SWIFT March 14, 2008)

Is there an an official JREF position on the matter?

Then your next post implies that Mr. Randi corrected himself in a later addition of SWIFT (October 6, 2008). Are the parentheses around the first paragraph supposed to be quotes?

From SWIFT, 7 March 2008

(I regret that, in error, I specified Greece in the earlier version of this entry, and said that the homeopaths had withdrawn. They are apparently – as of October of 2008, still trying to get a venue – and other facilities – locked in. This correction appeared October 6th, 2008.)

A tad bit of sloppiness on Mr. Randi's part.

Yet, the error has propagated to SWIFT, 14 March 2008, as I have already pointed out:

Last week I mentioned at randi.org/joom/content/view/172/27/#i10 that a major test of homeopathy in Greece has met the expected fate, being abandoned by the homeopathy community. Now, this 1,000-word notice has arrived from Gábor Hraskó, Executive President of the Hungarian Skeptic Society:


Maybe another correction is in order?

How is this sloppy on Mr. Randi's part? You do realize that October 6 follows March 7 by almost 7 months? Then you insert something from SWIFT from March 14 and ask for another correction?
What should be corrected? Is there a homeopathy Million Dollar Challenge coming soon? How are the Greek homeopaths connected to the Hungarian Skeptics?

 

[Mojo]

My sources are beside the point. The JREF ought to be a valid, legitimate source itself.

I do not hold any answers really. I am asking questions as you do, and I am opting for an answer from them. So, let us see what they have to say.

You must have got the information from somewhere.

Is what you put in your first post really all you have? It seems a little insubstantial as a basis for demanding corrections.

 

[hellen]

hello
I understand, Ray T means that at that time (in March) the experiment was on its way or at least the homeopaths were not withdrawn from the MDC, hence the 'sloppiness'. If what Ray T says is valid, JREF should have corrected that. I think that's what RayT wants to say.
I don't know how the Greek homeopaths can be connected with the Hungarian sceptics or even with the Hungarian homeopaths.
I believe the only valid information about the Greeks and the MDC can only come from JREF. They should post some updates on that so we know IF something is about to happen, when and what exactly.

 

[snoop_doxie]

hello
I understand, Ray T means that at that time (in March) the experiment was on its way or at least the homeopaths were not withdrawn from the MDC, hence the 'sloppiness'. If what Ray T says is valid, JREF should have corrected that. I think that's what RayT wants to say.
I don't know how the Greek homeopaths can be connected with the Hungarian sceptics or even with the Hungarian homeopaths.
I believe the only valid information about the Greeks and the MDC can only come from JREF. They should post some updates on that so we know IF something is about to happen, when and what exactly.

okay, hellen
JREF should provide the valid information for the Greeks? Why? Are the Greeks taking the MDC or not? Only they know that!
It appears from the quotes attributed to Randi (in RayT.'s posts) that they are still looking for an institution to host a challenge.
Randi is not a psychic, how could he possibly know what the homeopaths are going to do next?

I asked RayT what the connection is between Greek homeopaths and Hungarian skeptics. Please, RayT. Connect the dots for me.
Thank you

 

[hellen]

hello snoop_doxie
I suppose that JREF knows whether the greeks are taking the challenge or not.
so they can let us know what is going on and on what stage is the whole process. Information is a bit unclear.

 

[Ray T.]

Snoop:

How is this sloppy on Mr. Randi's part?

From what I understand of Mr. Randi's correction: "Greece" has been mistakenly typed instead of "Hungary", and "abandoned" instead of "pending". I consider this sloppy.

You do realize that October 6 follows March 7 by almost 7 months?

yes

Then you insert something from SWIFT from March 14 and ask for another correction? What should be corrected?

Mr. Randi in [SWIFT, 14 March 2008] wrote:

Last week I mentioned at randi.org/joom/content/view/172/27/#i10 that a major test of homeopathy in Greece has met the expected fate, being abandoned by the homeopathy community.

Now, "last week" refers to [SWIFT, 7 March 2008] which included a false anouncement of abandonement from the Greek homeopathy community. Evidently, this has been corrected on October 6. Does it not follow that [SWIFT, 14 March 2008] should also be corrected?

How are the Greek homeopaths connected to the Hungarian Skeptics?

The connection is there by Mr. Randi. I sincerely have no clue why are you asking this to me. Please, read the relevant parts in SWIFT before responding, if you have not done so.

Mojo:

It seems a little insubstantial as a basis for demanding corrections.

My basis is what I have explained above, and it should be fairly clear and straightforward for anyone to understand.

 

[Ray T.]

Are the parentheses around the first paragraph supposed to be quotes?

Oh, I see, you didn't get that. I thought it was pretty obvious that the texts in bold are taken from SWIFT. I would consider that anyone that cared enough as to respond to the thread, would have taken the time to at least check the relevant SWIFT parts.

 

[Gravy]

Nevermind

 

[Gravy]

I'm told that this was a personal challenge that Randi was/is involved in, so no application and Jeff and Alison aren't involved.

 

[snoop_doxie]

Oh, I see, you didn't get that. I thought it was pretty obvious that the texts in bold are taken from SWIFT. I would consider that anyone that cared enough as to respond to the thread, would have taken the time to at least check the relevant SWIFT parts.

I guess I was too excited at the prospect of a Million Dollar Challenge to see the obvious. My mistake.

I read the entire SWIFT article from March 14, 2008 titled "Another Withdrawal".
Thank you for pointing me in that direction, I still care enough to respond, but I have more information now.

The Hungarian Skeptic Society offered to host the Greek homeopaths for tests. The Greeks decided not to do their tests in Hungary, apparently there was some disagreement about the ethical treatment of the patients, and the process of the trials.

Mr. Gabor Hrasko (Executive President of Hungarian Skeptic Society) seemed disappointed the Greeks decided against doing their tests in Hungary.

Mr. Gabor Hrasko said,
"I do not think this result was unexpected, but I am rather sad. You put a lot of energy into it, and during the last stages, I also tried my best and we are again back at the starting point."

As I said earlier in one of my posts: Anybody feeling any deja vu woo-woo?

 

[Ray T.]

Snoop:

Anybody feeling any deja vu woo-woo?

so cute

Truly snoop, your posts are non sequitur. Since you made the first step to actually read one of the SWIFT parts you were commenting on, I think it is sensible now of you to mellow down that MDC excitement, try to actually read the thread calmly and understand what the facts are and what is being discussed here. Once you get a pretty good hold of it, your input is very much welcome.

Explaining things normally comprehensible with very basic thinking in a forum advocating critical thinking should not be my labour.


Gravy:

I'm told that this was a personal challenge that Randi was/is involved in, so no application and Jeff and Alison aren't involved.

Now, that is interesting and curious. I wish we could get some more info on that.

 

[Gravy]

Now, that is interesting and curious. I wish we could get some more info on that.

To state the obvious: [email protected]

 

[GzuzKryzt]

To state the obvious: [email protected]

Or you could tell us who told you.

 

[hellen]

indeed Gravy, where did you get this info from?

 

[Mojo]

Now, that is interesting and curious. I wish we could get some more info on that.

To state the obvious: [email protected]

indeed Gravy, where did you get this info from?

Or you could tell us who told you.

While we're on the subject, Ray, where did you get the information in the O/P?
Are you able to provide any of the further details already requested?

 

[Ray T.]

well... I 've been doin some heavy mind reading lately

Point is no matter what the source is, it will always be gossip till JREF official information. So please, pardon me the discretion.

 

[Ray T.]

I guess I will be able to provide further details when I get a reply from JREF.

 

[hellen]

still waiting for JREF position on the matter......

 

[chillzero]

still waiting for JREF position on the matter......

You might perhaps allow them more than one day to get through whatever else they need to deal with before they read Ray T's email, and then perhaps some additional time to look into the matter and ensure they provide the appropriate response to him (and then allow him time to come post it, of course)?

 

[Czarcasm]

well... I 've been doin some heavy mind reading lately

Point is no matter what the source is, it will always be gossip till JREF official information. So please, pardon me the discretion.

Why should JREF waste their time and ours trying to answer anonymous gossip when there are authentic challenges and protocols to sort through? Of course, if you could be bothered to actually name the source of this rumor(which you could of course do before JREF says another word)....if such a source actually existed.