Magnetism problem

[Rolfe]

I read the Commentary about the guy who seriously believed he broke computers by his presence.

Reminds me of when I was a schoolkid, and there were occasional stories about people who coudn't wear watches because they always stopped.

Well, I seemed to be one. I had to wear a watch for school, because there were trains to catch. And school rules said they had to be engraved with your name, so it was a pain every time I needed a new one. They weren't hard to come by though, because my Dad was industrial chaplain to Smiths Clocks and entitled to use the staff discount shop. Just as well! I was always in trouble because my watch had stopped. And for no reason that I could fathom. I remember once my mother saying that I'd have to wear her watch, that she's had for ages, and if I broke that there's be real trouble. It lasted 36 hours.

In the end I demanded Dad get me a nurse's watch that pinned on, and wore it inside a pocket. No problem, apart from a couple of nasty accidents when the safety pin came loose and the watch plummeted about four feet to the pavement, but no unexplained stoppages at all.

Then in about 1978, quartz watches were all the thing. I demanded a quartz wristwatch, and got it. No problem. Lasted for about 20 years, and finally stopped when I went swimming in Lake Thun at about 4<SUP>o</SUP>C. Replacement still going strong.

I sort of assumed that I was having some influence over these watches to keep stopping them. Whatever it was, it didn't affect a mechanical watch that wasn't on my wrist, or a quartz watch.

But is there no known mechanism? Was I just unlucky? Or much rougher with the watches than I realised?

Rolfe.

 

[Beleth]

They weren't hard to come by though, because my Dad was industrial chaplain to Smiths Clocks and entitled to use the staff discount shop.

Hmmm...

So the vast majority of the watches you got were obtained through this staff discount shop? Were they all the same model?

Could it be that the watches they sold there were returned, or didn't pass quality control, or had some other sort of explainable defect?

This doesn't explain the watch your mother gave you, of course. But it might explain the others.

 

[qII]

rolfe quote:

So we have the people who dreamed up the excuse for one case then pontificating about the effect as a general rule, arguing the toss with those who don't seem to have spotted the same effect. Forever. Research it? Don't be silly, ve don't do no steenkin research. Ve pontificate from a position of utter pig-◊◊◊◊ ignorance.

I'm surprised you would admit to strange phenomena. Judging from some of your posts I think it is obvious that you are twisted in some way or another (tell us about your anger).

I mean what other middle aged woman does what you do?

I never believed it before but I wonder if M Scott Peck is correct in in his book "The People of the Lie" that there is such a thing as evil. i disagreed because i thought that people were just victims of genetics and environment.

Could it be that there is something deeply disturbed in you maybe not evil but something along those lines.

I believe that you really were breaking those watches. --because there is something odd something different about your whole being your entire energy.

 

[Beanbag]

There are lots of perfectly rational reasons why certain people are "watch-stoppers."

There is no such thing as a shockproof watch -- they are merely shock-resistant to varying degrees. The balance wheel that forms the basic timekeeping and regulating functions rotates on a pair of thin, hardened steel pivots only slightly thicker than an eyelash. In a shock-resistant watch, the pivots are held in a pair of spring-loaded mounts that can flex to a certain degree when the watch is jarred or hit. If you hit the watch hard enough, you exceed the amount of flex built into the shock system, and the pivot snaps off (or bends, depending on the degree of temper), and the watch either stops dead or runs irregularly. Needless to say, active young children frequently exceed design limitations.

It doesn't surprise me that a nurse's watch would last longer. Pocket watches have a much easier life than a wrist watch, which gets tossed about at the end of an arm all day long and is put in a number of unpredictable positions all during the day. A pocket watch usually stays in an upright position all day long, subjected to relatively few sharp motions or accelerations, and is only taken out for a few times a day to check the time. From a practical point of view, the wrist is the worst place to wear a watch.

One big "watch-killer" is the use of perfume, cologne, and personal skin care products. The scents and fragrances can pass right through the case gaskets, which are designed for water resistance, NOT chemical resistance, and "poison" the lubricating oils in the watch.

Regards;
Beanbag (watchmaker by profession)

 

[Beanbag]

Re: Re: Magnetism problem

This doesn't explain the watch your mother gave you, of course. But it might explain the others.

Most nurses and medical practitioners have given up on "nurses' watches" and wear divers watches these days. They hold up better against body fluids, vomit, blood, etc.

Regards;
Beanbag

 

[Beanbag]

But is there no known mechanism? Was I just unlucky? Or much rougher with the watches than I realised?

Rolfe.

I could give you a laundry list of things people do that stop watches. Based on the info you've provided. I would say we're discussing the level of watch technology in the 1970's and before. No mention is made of your age at the time. I'd just guess that you were wearing watches designed for a normal adult level of activity, and they couldn't stand the amount of activity/dirt/dust/moisture you put them through.

People these days don't realize just how good they have it with todays watches, even the mechanical ones. Most quartz watches stop only when the cell dies. They use so little oil inside that they can run for decades without service as long as somebody takes the time to clean all the dirt off the case before they open the watch to replace the cell. As long as there is no dirt in the movement and the cell doesn't leak, quartz watches are pretty much indestructable.

Modern watch oils are all synthetic these days, and last a lot longer than the previous natural-based oils (whale oil, etc). Loss of oil or lubrication is the number one cause of watches requiring service. With the new oils, five to ten years between service is not uncommon (but not recommended).

Used to be that you'd find one or two watchmakers in even a small town, because watches would need servicing every two years or so. These days, only the larger or more elite jewelry stores have a watchmaker in the store, or send their watchwork out to a trade shop. More people are wearing watches these days, and the number of watchmakers has dropped drastically to where it's unusual to find an honest-to-betsy watchmaker. That should tell you something about how much the technology has improved.

Reagrds;
Beanbag

 

[Rolfe]

Re: Re: Magnetism problem

Hmmm...

So the vast majority of the watches you got were obtained through this staff discount shop? Were they all the same model?

Could it be that the watches they sold there were returned, or didn't pass quality control, or had some other sort of explainable defect?

This doesn't explain the watch your mother gave you, of course. But it might explain the others.

No, they weren't all the same model. They were ordinary stock, so far as I know. And I think one or two were obtained from a regular jeweller.

The one my mother gave me was in fact also from the discount shop, my Dad had brought several home for me to choose, and she'd also kept that one. It had a black face, and she absolutely swore by it for reliability and accuracy, for several years. Until she lent it to me, and like I said, 36 hours!

I suppose it was just bad luck, and carelessness, but I really didn't think I'd traumatised the things at all. I'd heard the stories that some people had some sort of electrical field that stopped watches, and I suppose it was a good excuse at the time!

Rolfe.

 

[MRC_Hans]

A permanent magnet field could stop them old mechanic watches, unless they were the expensive antimagnetic variety (and I don't just mean that it said "antimagnetic" on the back ). I've ruined my share of watches, although they usually last a year or two. My current one is a pretty expensive quartz watch, and it has held out for several years, now (knock on wood).

So, did you perchance play with magnets?

Hans

 

[Pyrrho]

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=1870408039#post1870408039

[pyr]The post referred in the above link was reported for possible violation of Rule 8. In my judgment, it doesn't qualify. The Ignore list is your friend.[/pyr]

 

[Rolfe]

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=1870408039#post1870408039

[pyr]The post referred in the above link was reported for possible violation of Rule 8. In my judgment, it doesn't qualify. The Ignore list is your friend.[/pyr]

Once again, for clarity, may I put it on record that I did not report this post. I have absolutely no intention of trying to have "Olaf" censured in any way, or put any crimp in the outpouring of foam-flecked ranting, which I actually find quite entertaining.

Still, whoever did report it, thanks for the thought!

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

So, did you perchance play with magnets?

Not that I remember. Not regularly, whatever was on the timetable in Physics, that's all.

Funny, I accidentally swam in one of them a couple of times and it survived that. That was my first watch I think, and it did last quite a while. But after that, even without total immersion, bad news.

Rolfe.

 

[qII]

Re: Re: Re: Magnetism problem

Until she lent it to me, and like I said, 36 hours!

I suppose it was just bad luck, and carelessness, but I really didn't think I'd traumatised the things at all. I'd heard the stories that some people had some sort of electrical field that stopped watches, and I suppose it was a good excuse at the time!

Rolfe.

Yep, that is what I think. I think that you have some very strange electrical field about you.

The chinese are correct. the polarity therapists are correct.

Like it or not -- there is a whole lot more going on than just the molecules and atoms that you learned about in school. However, since that is your life and how you define yourself i doubt you will be able to see beyond it. Too bad really.

(am i the only one who is intrigued with the car remote held up to the head trick? it is clear to me that the remote held to the head gets its boost from the energy field surrounding the brain.)

 

[wipeout]

I read the Commentary about the guy who seriously believed he broke computers by his presence.

Yeah, I'd been thinking of starting a thread on it as hard-drives are protected from magnetic fields, so this guy wouldn't be having an effect even if he was quite strongly magnetic. I think the only way he'd easily blow up a drive is if the guy, opens the PC case and has a static charge and touched the exposed chips on the underside of the drive.

Then again, people were having real problems with IBM drives a couple of years ago (I should know as I bought one as well), and if he kept buying new ones of the same type, then...

As to your watches, I have a wildly speculative idea about wind-up watches and wonder if you can charge them up and if the forces between charged internal parts could stop the watch. Maybe clothing rubbing against the watch and running around a lot might do it. Don't think it's true but let's see if someone knows better.

Thinking of charged and magnetised people got me thinking about a funny thing which happened when my chemistry teacher was demonstrating a geiger counter to us students. After pointing the device at students, objects, the sky and the ground and always getting quite noticable counts, he pointed the geiger counter at me and got nothing. Zero. Not even natural background radiation! It was like I was a black hole in space.

I rather like this result.

 

[Hellbound]

Actually, the first question I would ask to someone who kept having hard drives die is "Do you smoke?"

Contrary to popular belief, hard drives are not completely sealed. They have ports or valves so they can equalize pressure inside the platter chamber. Smoke particles are some of the smallest particles around, and can over time get inside this chamber. A single particle of smoke between the heads and platters is enough to cause damage.

That's just one possible explanation, there are several others. "Dirty" power is one, brownouts put a lot of wear on components, more so than surges and blackouts. Most home battery back-ups are simple batteries and don't do much in the way of line conditioning (it's cheaper that way). Just as an aside, if you're going to buy a battery for your computers always look for an in-line UPS; in-line means the computer always runs off battery, and the AC line just keeps the battery charged. It provides more even power, and also gives a hard break between wall power and the computer.

If he adds any components (or opens the case for any other reason) static electricity comes into play. IC circuits can be fried by a static discharge too small for a person to even feel. Especially a danger if the computer is on carpet.

Then there's the more esoteric problems. If there are multiple grounds in the power around where a computer is connected, that can cause problems. Also, is some of the outlets are reverse-wired. It's not much of a problem as long as everything is equal, i.e.-all the outlets of devices plugged into the computer are reversed or the grounds of multiple areas/buildings are at the same voltage. When this differs, however...say, an external DVD drive that's plugged into a regular outlet with a computer plugged into a reversed on, sparks will fly. This tends to be more dramatic, however, so would probably not be the case here.

Finally, there's simple manufacturing. If the individual has been buying bargain PCs, or even buying custom built PCs from a local vendor, he has probably been getting low quality parts (no offense to local vendors out there, but I've seen many a back-room computer store, and most will use the cheapest components available unless you specify otherwise). In computer equipment, the old adage about "you get what you pay for" is pretty well true. With all other things the same, you will get better quality from a more expensive Seagate drive than an inexpensive "Maxtor". Of course, both of these are good quality, but there are many off-brands that are used...I myself got stuck with a "Champ" brand drive before I learned enouogh to know better. It died within a year, multiple bad sectors and t=finally the controller card gave out.

Anyway, there are multiple explanations for this sort of thing, but to determine the exact cause one would need to know more. Just thougt I'd share a bit of my expereince in this area.

 

[MRC_Hans]

About magnet fields around people, "energy fields" around people, etc. etc.:

I have to be very clear here: There are NO magnetic or energy fields surrounding a human being that have any influence on electronic or mechanical equipment. Of course, a human, being a fairly large chunk of conductive material, will conduct, reflect, absorb, or change various electromagnetic fields in its vicinity, depending on the conditions. But we have been working with delicate intruments near human beings for over a century now, I have personally been doing it for four decades, and trust me: If humans generated such fields, we would know about it.

Hans

 

[Rolfe]

But we have been working with delicate intruments near human beings for over a century now, I have personally been doing it for four decades, and trust me: If humans generated such fields, we would know about it.

I do know that there's enough electrical activity on the human skin to pick up an ECG signal. I just thought vaguely that in some people there was enough there to interfere with a watch - hey I was about 13 at the time and never seriously thought about the magnitude of the effect.

But if you tell me the signals are much too weak to make the slightest difference to a mechanical watch, well, I've learned something.

Rolfe.

 

[MRC_Hans]

We can pick up three types of electrical signals from the body. I have worked with (even constructed) equipment for that purpose. It is being used for diagnostics, monitirong, and various research.

1) EMG, electromyography. Signals from the muscles. Amplitude when measured with electrodes attached to the skin, 10mV.

2) ECG, electrocardiography. Signals from the heart. Amplitude when measured with electrodes attached to the skin, 1mV.

3) EEG, electroencephalography. Signals from the brain. Amplitude when measured with electrodes attached to the skin, 0.1mV.

All these signals are in the low frequency to very low frequency range, 0.5-500 Hz. Because of the low amplitude and low frequency, they do not give rise to measurable EM waves.

Some fishes can create quite high impulses, mostly used or navigation, and sensing, but a few can even use it as a weapon (e.g. electrical eels).

Hans

 

[Hand Bent Spoon]

You do realise you have to wind them every now and then don't you?

 

[Rolfe]

I take it, then, that it's not reasonable to suggest that any of these could interfere with a mechanical watch?

Rolfe.

 

[MRC_Hans]

I take it, then, that it's not reasonable to suggest that any of these could interfere with a mechanical watch?

Rolfe.

Absolutely right. It takes quite sophisticated equipment to measure them over the general noise, even when measuring through electrodes attached to the skin.

A watch, being encased in metal, is also well protected against electrical fields. Magnetic fields, mechanichal stress, water, and dust are watch-killers. Since carrying it in your pocket helped, and electronic watches survive you too, my quess is mechanical stress (quarz watches are rather robust, mechanically), and water. You mention some experiences with water, which make me suspect that you had you hands in water some .

Hans

Edited to add: Does the word tape eraser mean anything to you?