Ed Madeleine McCann Mystery

Rolfe said:
If I was wrong about what happened to the baby in the case you cited, I apologise. However, we all know dogs die in hot cars, and so do babies. Leaving a baby or a dog in a car in that situation is a lot different from leaving them tucked up comfortably in bed. That is not a tragic "mistake". It is manslaughter.

And I was not mocking.

Now, let's look at your attitude. The McCanns were having dinner in the hotel restaurant with others in their party. You characterise this as "left their kids alone so they could get drunk".

Meh. I'm done with this. You want to go on badmouthing and conspiracy theorising, in public where they can read it, about a couple who did something unwise which has nevertheless been done by many many other parents with no harm resulting, carry on.

Rolfe.
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Ok thanks Rolfe I certainly will. ;)
 
I'm pretty sure we already had a thread in SI&CE about whether leaving the children alone like that was culpable. You could search under May 2007 - that's when it happened and it was well discussed at the time.

You have come here to allege that the McCanns killed their daughter. Based on false allegations circulated by the Portuguese police when they were embarrassed about having screwed up the initial search for Madeleine.

You want to go on doing that I can't stop you, but I think it's despicable innuendo, and I'd say the same no matter whether the parents were polkadot tartan.

Rolfe.
 
lionking said:
Now this is just unbelieveble. Leaving a baby in a car all day is absolute negligance, and people are prosecuted for it in Australia. Any parent knows this. There's hardly any circumstance I can think of where this wouldn't do a young child harm. Leaving children in a hotel room is almost always safe.
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Australia is hot A. and B. It wasn't all day. In fact it wasn't a hot day and this was years ago before people become aware of the issue.

But I notice you didn't answer the direct question. You said you left your son in a hotel room. You did this when he was three years old? I seriously doubt it. And I doubt that there were twin babies in the room as well.

I've already pointed out that many of us could make the same mistake elsewhere. However to claim that these two should receive respect and privacy for their situation is only really true in my opinion if the parents had no culpability in the incident.

These two have full culpability of the probable death of their child. I'm sorry but they do. I'm sure many of us parents know what it is like to get lucky and know how it could go wrong in a second.

The age of the children in question is the deciding factor in their guilt here. Not the fact that they left their children asleep in a room.
 
As I said, that is a completely different issue from the title of this thread, and one which was discussed in detail four years ago. You want to raise that again, why not resurrect the appropriate thread?

You want to accuse people in pubic of killing their child, when there isn't a shred of credible evidence to that effect, well, I'd probably get infracted if I said what I think about that.

Rolfe.
 
lionking said:
Rubbish. They are victims of a horrible crime. You have nothing but prejudice.
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No their daughter was a victim of a horrible crime that was made possible by the gross negligence of her parents.

That's the fact. I'm sorry it upsets you so, but it is a fact.
 
Rolfe said:
As I said, that is a completely different issue from the title of this thread, and one which was discussed in detail four years ago. You want to raise that again, why not resurrect the appropriate thread?

You want to accuse people in pubic of killing their child, when there isn't a shred of credible evidence to that effect, well, I'd probably get infracted if I said what I think about that.

Rolfe.
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Well the thread has evolved. If it's matter of titling the thread I suppose I can ask for that to be fixed. I'll look into it.
 
Changed your mind, have you? Not actually accusing the McCanns of murder any more?

Well, at least that's a relief.

Rolfe.
 
truethat said:
Well the thread has evolved. If it's matter of titling the thread I suppose I can ask for that to be fixed. I'll look into it.
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More like splitting off the last however many posts and moving them to the appropriate four-year-old thread where they belong. Which is, quite rightly, not in this forum area because it is not a conspiracy theory.

Talk about behind the times?

Rolfe.
 
truethat said:
No their daughter was a victim of a horrible crime that was made possible by the gross negligence of her parents.

That's the fact. I'm sorry it upsets you so, but it is a fact.
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I think you need to consult a dictionary. It's your inplausable assertion, not a fact at all.

If you think unsupported assertions upset me, think again.
 
truethat said:
I kind of see what you mean. I feel the same way with the Jon Benet Ramsey case when people are discussing how her parents probably tied her up and garroted her face down which is why the front of her pjs were peed on.
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Jesus Christ, this is obscene.
 
lionking said:
I think you need to consult a dictionary. It's your inplausable assertion, not a fact at all.

If you think unsupported assertions upset me, think again.
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We shall agree to disagree. Had the child not be left unattended, the child would most likely still be alive today. The parent's irresponsible behavior (which they had done on numerous occasions) is outrageous and directly contributed to the death of their child.

No different than the woman who left her child in the car. I have sympathy for them making a stupid decision but less sympathy for one who did it for Tapas and fun as opposed to having to go to work.

But this is only my opinion. We do not need to agree.
 
truethat said:
We shall agree to disagree.

But this is only my opinion. We do not need to agree.
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No kidding, Sherlock!

As I said, the question of just how much blame should be attached to the McCanns for leaving the children in the hotel room alone is one which has been under discussion since 4th May 2007. I recall heated arguments in the tearoom at work about this on 7th May 2007. There is at least one old thread on this forum dealing with the matter.

Opinions differ. One of my colleagues, a father of two girls himself, was virulently condemnatory. Others were less so. We have to remember that the McCann children were not even the only ones left alone in these circumstances in that hotel that evening, never mind what has gone on in most hotels in the world for decades. The Social Services did look into the circumstances, and decided no action should be taken.

People will never agree on this, as it is indeed a value-judgement with more than one point of view being validly held. It's also extremely old news, just a re-hash of arguments made at the time, with no more hope of achieving agreement now than then.

Quite why this banal sociological discussion is taking place in a thread in the Conspiracy Theories forum is a bit of a mystery. If you no longer wish to accuse the McCanns of murder or culpable homicide in relation to their daughter, then I would suggest you drop the subject.

Rolfe.
 
but for their actions..............
its that which allowed the child to be taken (if that was the case)

thats it in a nutshell.
 
Rolfe said:
No kidding, Sherlock!

As I said, the question of just how much blame should be attached to the McCanns for leaving the children in the hotel room alone is one which has been under discussion since 4th May 2007. I recall heated arguments in the tearoom at work about this on 7th May 2007. There is at least one old thread on this forum dealing with the matter.

Opinions differ. One of my colleagues, a father of two girls himself, was virulently condemnatory. Others were less so. We have to remember that the McCann children were not even the only ones left alone in these circumstances in that hotel that evening, never mind what has gone on in most hotels in the world for decades. The Social Services did look into the circumstances, and decided no action should be taken.

People will never agree on this, as it is indeed a value-judgement with more than one point of view being validly held. It's also extremely old news, just a re-hash of arguments made at the time, with no more hope of achieving agreement now than then.

Quite why this banal sociological discussion is taking place in a thread in the Conspiracy Theories forum is a bit of a mystery. If you no longer wish to accuse the McCanns of murder or culpable homicide in relation to their daughter, then I would suggest you drop the subject.

Rolfe.
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Your disapproval is duly noted.


I am interested in this case because it remains unsolved all these years. Later. If you think it should just be dropped then perhaps you ought to just stay out of the thread instead of repeatedly bumping it to the top. :D


I like trying to solve unsolved mysteries. Of course it is simple speculation.

I do believe that the most reasonable conclusion is that they drugged their child. This is the only way it makes sense to me that they would have left her in the room. Also when the mom ran out of the room she said "They took her." If I had a three year old and I came to the room and the child was missing, I'd be running around the resort, I would not immediately jump the conclusion that she had been abducted. A child asleep wakes up and walks around. The fact that she immediately knew this wasn't possible tells me that she knew the child couldn't have woken up and wandered off. To me this is only possible if the child was drugged to sleep.

It also matches why the parents felt comfortable leaving her alone asleep in the room.

I think that there's always been some sort of impression given off by the parents that they know more than they are saying. To me this makes sense as well. As I have stated before, they are doctors who could lose their livelihood if it came out they were drugging their child. So they really couldn't say it.

If the child was abducted, the mother would feel tremendous guilt not only for leaving her alone but also in the fact that the drugging of the child also helped make the abduction easier.

If the abductor actually did drug the child as well it could have killed her. I'm leaning in this direction and the most sensible conclusion.
 
I think those who think it was a Hotel Room have got it wrong. It
was a holiday complex containing seperate Apartments. The McCanns
claim that they could see anything untoward from the Restaurant is
not true, there was quite a distance from where they were sitting and
you could barely see the patio doorsof their apartment. Their claim
that the children"s bedroom window shutter was jemmied was proved to be wrong, there was no sign of forced entry , fingerprints,
and in Amaral"s documentary of a recon from the McCanns statement proved the "abductor" would have to have had an
accomplice to pass Madeleiene through an open Window because it was rather high and a lone kidnapper would have found it too
difficult to climb through with the child in his arms.

Nobody knows what really happened on that night but I question
some aspects of this case.

1. A Private Company was incorporated 12 days after Madeleiene
went missing to receive donations from the Public, a website set
up to sell Merchandise...........How could the Parents know their
daughter would not be found in the interim?

2. The British Ambassador in Portugal was sent at the request of Tony Blair and was with the parents within 48 hrs. There were
Family Lawyers despatched, a PR guru assigned , all within days.
The Ambassador emailed the Foreign Office at a later date to say
he did not think the Government should not get too involved because the Tapas 9 statements show discrepancies, he was moved
from Portugal within months.

A reward of £1.5 million was offered for information leading to the
whereabouts of Madeleiene but has still not been claimed.

There is much about this case that is imponderable and in the words of a judge when asked if he thought there was enough evidence to charge the McCanns, he said "show me the body".
That poor child has become a cash cow for so many people, that"s
what makes me angry.
 
It does sort of show that they knew the child would not be found. However in the parent's defense I doubt very much they were sitting there creating all these things. They probably had people offering to "help" who set these things up.
 
My cat went missing one day. I had the neighbourhood plastered with "missing cat" posters within 12 hours. Despite knowing perfectly well that most missing cats show up within a day or two, and no particular reason to believe mine wouldn't either.

Rolfe.
 
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