Lucid Dreaming - Consciousness During Sleep.

MNBrant said:
the op confused lucid dreaming with sleep paralysis. With sleep paralysis you cannot move but are aware you are in a dream. Its all very scientific. Usually you will hear what you think are demons. In my case it was astarte and she wanted sex of course. The room was exactly the same as when I was away except the door was closed in the dream and when awake the door was open. What you guys are referring to for the most part are dreams you remember and as far as I know, most people have them. Hope I didn't kill the thread.
Click to expand...

With hypnogogic hallucination (sleep paralysis), you wake up, but not completely, so your brain hasn't switched on your mobility (the part that keeps you from acting out your dreams, which could be very dangerous), and you continue to be in a dreamlike state. It's still very scientific. ;)

Most people think they are still dreaming in these cases and this is mainly where (I believe) most alien abduction experiences and in the olden days, demonic (and thusly, succubi/incubi/astarte) situations happen. It was demons for me, but because I've had them so often I automatically know they're dreams. Or, I would "wake up", be immobile, feeling and hearing with complete clarity, someone sitting down on the bed behind me. I shrug these off now.

As for lucid dreams, I'm so used to them that I can do the "out of body" experience when I'm in that gray period in between, and remove myself from my body, head out of the bedroom, down the stairs, and out the front door where I leap into the air and fly. But it's never quite the same house, or the same front yard. And I know it, every time I do it. It's still great fun. It never lasts though; I'm a light sleeper. The instant of sheer joy I feel when I reach a great height in the sky, wakes me up. Bummer.

I have found that Ambien can help induce lucid dreaming. When I was taking it, when I could feel the effects starting, I'd think really hard about what I want to dream about, and it would sometimes happen (more often than when I wasn't taking it). I stopped taking it because I grew immune. I do know that if you're in a really good dream, no matter what drugs you are or are not on, if you wake up, keep your eyes shut and don't move. Try really hard to just go back to sleep. And you just might go back into the same dream. I do. I do the opposite for nightmares. Get up, go to the bathroom, and I know it won't come back.

Also, although it's not always lucid, my dream "reality" is always as follows: I can always breathe underwater; therefore, no drowning dreams. I can always land on my feet and survive, no matter how high I fall from; therefore, no falling dreams (in fact, I often leap from great heights because it usually changes the scene for me to a new dream). And I can always climb walls and leap from building to building like Catwoman; therefore; I am awesome.
 
Last edited:
YouAreDreaming said:
When I was 15 years old, I started exploring lucid dreaming inspired by an article written in an Omni Magazine back in 1985 called, "Power Trips: Controlling your Dreams" by Stephen LaBerge.

The thrill of having my first lucid dream at that age baited me into the dreamstate and my interest was keen enough that memory wise, I was recalling a lot more dreams at night then before I took such an interest.

The precognitive aspect revealed itself slowly at first, my first precognitive dream involved a friend of mine where we were at a beach where I lived by a fire pit, some logs and we met two girls, a red head and brunette. I told him the dream at school because he was in it.

Months later we would be at the same beach, same fire pit and met these two girls there which fit the description of the dream. My friend came up to me and pointed out that it was exactly like I told him from the dream I had. I instantly dismissed it as coincidence although it did seem to accurately match a dream.

More of these types of dreams surfaced through out my school years. For the first year, I dismissed them all as lucky guesses, coincidences and at that time didn't even know what precognitive dreams where.

It was one diffinitive dream that turned my skeptisism into acceptance, but it was building up with more and more frequency of these types of dreams so when this one occurred, it was so cleverly presented that regardless of what I wanted to believe, I had to accept that somehow, some dreams were future events.

In this case I had remembered the dream in full detail before it came true. I was making note of the same people, the setting and even what was on TV. However, I recalled that one person was sitting with me and not where they were in real life, more so it was a she and she was also playing footsies with me.

Relieved that dreams could be very close examples of future events and not actually future events, I reviewed what I remembered and noted the difference. What I failed to consider was time, and that the event in the dream simply hat not synched up so when it did come true the person came over and sat on the couch with me and eventually played footsies etc.

That was the turning point for my denial to suddenly turn to acceptance. It was a very frightening time, these literal precognitive dreams scared me when they came true. I didn't like the experience but it was there and what little I did journal of my dreams, or ones I told people would later be confirmed.

Relative to death, I dreamed about my family dog dying on the table at the vet, my family was there crying and I was sad to see my father so distraught. At that time, I was now comphortable with this anomaly so I made sure to spend a lot more time with my dog as a result.

Months later, I would have a call at work and my dad told me the dog was having a heart attack and I needed to get to the vet's right away. I left work and drove there immediately and it was exactly the dream to the finest granular detail.

I had a dream that my cousin and his friend would die in a pick-up truck accident. I told his mother and my aunt about the dream. A year later on his way home for Christmas, he and his friend had a head on collision with a semi-truck driving in his friends pickup.

I had a dream where I was giving my neighbour CPR who was deceased. Her two children where there and I was so worried for them. A short chubby blonde female officer was there also.

Months later my son would come home and told me his friends mom was in a Coma, he was 11 at the time. I thought that was terrible and asked if she was at the hospital, he said no she was in a coma at home. I had never met her.

I ran to her place and went up the stairs, she was lying spread eagle between the bed and nightstand. Her son and daughter where standing there on the phone to 911. I checked her pulse, she was cold, no pulse. Took the phone and talked to the operator who instructed me to get her in position for CPR and give her CPR. She was already dead, probably over 30 minutes but I did anyways.

When the ambulance arrived I let the paramedics take over and walked down stairs where I met the blonde police officer and talked about the situation.

Dreams like that really sink in stone the reality of this type of experience.

There are many others but suffice to say, I have also had lucid precognitive dreams and those only further my interests in this potential. It seems to suggest that a natural progression for non-lucid precognitive dreams to become lucid precognitive dreams.

That pretty much sums up the experience. It often feels like Déjà vu but the memory that comes when the Déjà sets in stems from a past dream.
Click to expand...

The problem with using dreams as precog is the the mind conveniently fills in the blanks and changes facts at will as time goes on. Pretty much this is the case in much of science as well. Everybody wants the positive result. This is teleportation not precog but I remember putting a paper clip in my mouth and waking up to find it in the basement right under my bed. I thought that I had done teleportation but the reality is that half asleep I walked down to the basement. The paperclip was uncomfortable so I took it out and dropped it. The same problem would work with dream precog. Why would a dream about two girls months ago be so important to you? Likely you knew these girls and unconsciously set it up to fulfil a prophecy. You left out whether your friend died in a pick up truck. See how your mind altered details to fit your conclusion? I don't know much about the third dream but getting it right doesn't really mean anything. What is importance of the event to you? I am adding this but why would you perform CPR on someone who was stone cold dead? How do you know so much about CPR? I can honestly say I have gotten nothing concrete from dreams, but maybe a little from sleep paralysis. Maybe you should try to be more skeptical of yourself. You have very little useful information here unless you married the red headed girl or something.
 
Last edited:
MNBrant said:
The problem with using dreams as precog is the the mind conveniently fills in the blanks and changes facts at will as time goes on. Pretty much this is the case in much of science as well. Everybody wants the positive result. This is teleportation not precog but I remember putting a paper clip in my mouth and waking up to find it in the basement right under my bed. I thought that I had done teleportation but the reality is that half asleep I walked down to the basement. The paperclip was uncomfortable so I took it out and dropped it. The same problem would work with dream precog. Why would a dream about two girls months ago be so important to you? Likely you knew these girls and unconsciously set it up to fulfil a prophecy. You left out whether your friend died in a pick up truck. See how your mind altered details to fit your conclusion? I don't know much about the third dream but getting it right doesn't really mean anything. What is importance of the event to you? I am adding this but why would you perform CPR on someone who was stone cold dead? How do you know so much about CPR? I can honestly say I have gotten nothing concrete from dreams, but maybe a little from sleep paralysis. Maybe you should try to be more skeptical of yourself. You have very little useful information here unless you married the red headed girl or something.
Click to expand...

If it was all fill in the blanks, I would be happy with that however some have been very literal and coherent to the future event so much so that it makes the future event feel like a re-run of reality which isn't right. More intense then any deja vu, especially when lucidity was present in these types of dreams.

Also having journals over the years in addition to other events related to this I have as skeptical as I am seen this precognitive aspect of dreaming clearly present and laid out in stone. Do I fully understand it, no. It certainly didn't make me go run off and believe in Santa God or the Jesus Bunny rather perks my interests into the nature of dreams and how such non-linear and non-localized events like precognition can occur.

If I had any doubts, the lucid precognitive dreams ended any skeptical debate I had with the genuine nature of precognitive dreams. It's a real phenomena that I've experienced in great depth. Hopefully it's something that science will be able to explore and understand but I am very skeptical that this won't happen in my lifetime.

Dreams are very fascinating, especially when there is relativity to actual future events. Most intriguing.
 
Can you distinguish a "precognitive" dream from one that bears a passing or even specific resemblance to events that happen later, which stand out because they hit the mark?

You dream every night, you remember dreams frequently over time. Throw enough darts around and one's going to hit a bullseye.

Even a claimed bullseye would be suspected of the kind of slippery editing the brain performs on foggy memories, unless the significant details were written down before the events they supposedly predicted.
 
YouAreDreaming said:
If it was all fill in the blanks, I would be happy with that however some have been very literal and coherent to the future event so much so that it makes the future event feel like a re-run of reality which isn't right. More intense then any deja vu, especially when lucidity was present in these types of dreams.

Also having journals over the years in addition to other events related to this I have as skeptical as I am seen this precognitive aspect of dreaming clearly present and laid out in stone. Do I fully understand it, no. It certainly didn't make me go run off and believe in Santa God or the Jesus Bunny rather perks my interests into the nature of dreams and how such non-linear and non-localized events like precognition can occur.

If I had any doubts, the lucid precognitive dreams ended any skeptical debate I had with the genuine nature of precognitive dreams. It's a real phenomena that I've experienced in great depth. Hopefully it's something that science will be able to explore and understand but I am very skeptical that this won't happen in my lifetime.

Dreams are very fascinating, especially when there is relativity to actual future events. Most intriguing.
Click to expand...

How many dreams have you had that might have seemed precognitive but weren't?

In dreams we draw from what we know; for example, perhaps you are aware of your dog's age and relative health, possibly past events involving the death of family pets. Did your cousin drive a pickup at the time of your dream? Was your neighbor a diabetic or known to have heart disease?

You don't need to answer those questions. My point is just that there are many possible explanations, besides actual precognition, for why you might pull in elements of a dream that happen in the future. Some like the above, some coincidence.
 
I played around this morning for 15 minutes or so with the lucids.. doing this and that.. lot of fun.. :)
 
gnome said:
Can you distinguish a "precognitive" dream from one that bears a passing or even specific resemblance to events that happen later, which stand out because they hit the mark?

You dream every night, you remember dreams frequently over time. Throw enough darts around and one's going to hit a bullseye.

Even a claimed bullseye would be suspected of the kind of slippery editing the brain performs on foggy memories, unless the significant details were written down before the events they supposedly predicted.
Click to expand...

There is far more normal dreams I have then ones that I would consider precognitive. Even in the realm of precognitive dreams, there are also certain diminished qualities *if* the dream is affected by dream symbolism where the details are certainly warped yet the symbols appear to match a future event.

Then there are literal precognitive dreams which effectively 100% event matches between the past dream and the future event. Add to this lucidity and the combination is quite potent once the dream is realized in the future when this event occurs. This often triggers an intense feeling of deja vu.

It is not something that I am actively trying to do, like hit a bullseye rather it's a passive, random and uncontrolled event that is not realized up until the event actually comes true and the link between the dream and reality is finally realized.

For the memory argument, we are not that forgetful and we have quite a lot of things we can and do remember in great detail. For example if one day I showed you a picture of the Mona Lisa and months later showed it to you again, I am pretty certain you would remember the painting.

The difference in precognitive experiences is the dream shows you a very detailed picture (a future event) in first-person and for how ever and what ever this is, the same pattern and event actualizes and becomes realized when the dream comes true.

It can be very literal, it is however rare and not common to the over all volume of dreaming that I have.
 
I had one last night too. I have them a lot as I've mentioned elsewhere, don't really like them for personal reasons. But in this one I thought I had gotten out of bed and gone into the kitchen, realized I was still asleep and dreaming, exhausted told myself I'd really just rather go back to bed and dream normally. Then I thought, actually it might be fun to fly. Specifically I was thinking of outer space, or at least my version of outer space, haven't dreamed about that for a long while. So I concentrated on outer space and waited. Waited in my dream version of my kitchen for the scene to change, to start floating upward, nothing happened. Then suddenly I'm looking down at the most extraordinary ocean. The details were just amazing. I was flying over white sands, there were soaring cliffs and the water was crystal clear blue, waves that sparkled, bright sun.

Fun dream. Odd, though. I ask for outer space, I get amazing ocean.
 
As I have mentioned though, what have you done to prevent the dream from "decaying" in your memory between the dream and the event it predicts?

Do you ever have dreams that at the time you think might be precognitive, but don't wind up matching anything that happens?
 
ExMinister said:
How many dreams have you had that might have seemed precognitive but weren't?

In dreams we draw from what we know; for example, perhaps you are aware of your dog's age and relative health, possibly past events involving the death of family pets. Did your cousin drive a pickup at the time of your dream? Was your neighbor a diabetic or known to have heart disease?

You don't need to answer those questions. My point is just that there are many possible explanations, besides actual precognition, for why you might pull in elements of a dream that happen in the future. Some like the above, some coincidence.
Click to expand...

There are sticky details, things you don't forget. For example in the case of my neighbor. I may have seen her at some point although I really don't think we ever met.

She committed suicide. Took lots of pills, and vomited face down on her bed then rolled over and collapsed between the bed and nightstand. Her hair was wet and clumped, her face a bit ghoulish with a blue mouth and pale skin.

In the dream, she had the same wet hair, ghoulish look about her. When I knelt down to give CPR I have a very good look at her. It was exactly, to the finest granular detail how she looked months later when the dream came true. Even the female cop whom I never met before was accurate.

Hardly a memory issue, and on top of that I told the dream to my X when I woke up as it disturbed me and I didn't know what it meant. Many times other people have also remembered dreams that I have told them which involved them and they have come true. My friends, my mom, my X girlfriends have all shared a bit in this. And of course sometimes if I managed to write a dream down I have had the journal entries.

This experience first started when I was 15 years old. It was the most frightening experience I had when faced with the ultimate undeniable fact that it was genuine and real, even if I didn't want to accept that. The frequency, clarity and intensity of this experience simple made clear that for what ever reasons, how ever possible some dreams are 100% future events.

All the arguments that it can be something other really fail as simply arguments as they do not fit the actual nature of this experience rather set to do what I also tried to do, dismiss it as being anything other then a future event observed first in a dream.

Now that I am 39 and seasoned with the experience, I really have no choice but to accept what I know. And that this is real and has apparently existed historically since the written record with all manners of accounts.

Hopefully more research and science can get to the nature of it as understandably unless you actually have the experience and are able to validate it, it's impossible to think that such an experience can exist at all.

I have had a long time to think about why this exists and the astronomical volume of probability that must also exist to suggest that our futures may be pre-determined and already existing at some level we do not yet understand.

I have no doubts that we live in an atomized Universe with seemingly astronomical numbers of atoms, molecules, organisms, planets, stars and galaxies all moving through time that even the idea that a future event can be experienced in a dream based on this very evident body of matter is incredibly irrational and seemingly impossible.

Yet, regardless of the random and probabilistic nature of the Universe, in something as natural as a dream sits this anomaly where time/space and future events merge. Not something that I chose to "believe" in rather a series of expeirences over the course of many years that shaped through knowledge and experience the reality that some, not all dreams are future events. The reasons and mechanics are still unknown to me, only ideas and theories muse at what it all means.
 
Last edited:
gnome said:
As I have mentioned though, what have you done to prevent the dream from "decaying" in your memory between the dream and the event it predicts?

Do you ever have dreams that at the time you think might be precognitive, but don't wind up matching anything that happens?
Click to expand...

If you want a memory thought experiment to try, pick up a book and read a two or three pages. Put it down and then pick it up a month later and try to predict what happens next in those two pages. Then read the pages and you will see that sure, maybe you forget and twist the details but as you read the pages, a part of your memory knows every word, sentence and detail.

Memory is not just our conscious access which is where I think all memory failure happens due to our ego and ability to project our expectations on details. Rather there is this photographic sub-conscious layer that remembers clear visual data. I'm sure I can pick up any book I've read and not get the fine details page by page as my conscious memories are not photographic, but as I read the book the words, paragraphs and such will be familiar and it would be apparent to me then that I have read the book.

As for using dreams to predict future events, I have absolutely no way to know if a dream is precognitive or not. The obvious ones that do not match anything remotely close to my waking life can easily be dismissed, the ones that match waking life now become good candidates but clearly not all of those are predicting future events. I've learned that all one can do is simply realize the relationship after the dream actualizes as there honestly is no way to say with any certainty what dream is precognitive and what dream isn't.

I may suspect and yes it may come true, or not. But I don't hold my breath and base my life on it. I'm still struggling with understanding it, the mechanics and how such a seemingly impossible event can exist. It really challenges my understanding of time/space and hints very strongly at predeterminism.
 
YouAreDreaming said:
I may suspect and yes it may come true, or not. But I don't hold my breath and base my life on it. I'm still struggling with understanding it, the mechanics and how such a seemingly impossible event can exist. It really challenges my understanding of time/space and hints very strongly at predeterminism.
Click to expand...

Very strongly hints my bottom -- you can either dream tomorrows lottery numbers or not. It is or it isn't. One or zero. Yes or no. Hinting is the recourse of the intellectual scoundrel.
 
YouAreDreaming said:
If you want a memory thought experiment to try, pick up a book and read a two or three pages. Put it down and then pick it up a month later and try to predict what happens next in those two pages. Then read the pages and you will see that sure, maybe you forget and twist the details but as you read the pages, a part of your memory knows every word, sentence and detail.

Memory is not just our conscious access which is where I think all memory failure happens due to our ego and ability to project our expectations on details. Rather there is this photographic sub-conscious layer that remembers clear visual data. I'm sure I can pick up any book I've read and not get the fine details page by page as my conscious memories are not photographic, but as I read the book the words, paragraphs and such will be familiar and it would be apparent to me then that I have read the book.

As for using dreams to predict future events, I have absolutely no way to know if a dream is precognitive or not. The obvious ones that do not match anything remotely close to my waking life can easily be dismissed, the ones that match waking life now become good candidates but clearly not all of those are predicting future events. I've learned that all one can do is simply realize the relationship after the dream actualizes as there honestly is no way to say with any certainty what dream is precognitive and what dream isn't.

I may suspect and yes it may come true, or not. But I don't hold my breath and base my life on it. I'm still struggling with understanding it, the mechanics and how such a seemingly impossible event can exist. It really challenges my understanding of time/space and hints very strongly at predeterminism.
Click to expand...

You don't believe that it is possible to be convinced you are remembering something accurately, but be mistaken after all? A bold statement. Personal certainty is no substitute for evidence.

I would say that it IS something you choose to believe if you dismiss alternate explanations without rigorous examination.
 
Last edited:
Senex said:
Very strongly hints my bottom -- you can either dream tomorrows lottery numbers or not. It is or it isn't. One or zero. Yes or no. Hinting is the recourse of the intellectual scoundrel.
Click to expand...

http://www.oddee.com/item_95629.aspx

Won the lottery twice after a dream

Many successful lottery entrants have said their winning combinations came to them in dreams; that they awoke with five or six numbers dancing in their heads, jotted the combinations down, played them, and won. Sometimes the dreamed-of numbers paid off right away, and sometimes the dreamers played those combinations for years before hitting the jackpot. So, that 86-year-old Mary Wollens of Toronto won the Ontario Lottery on 30 September 2006 after seeing "a lotto ticket and a large cheque" in a dream a couple of days before the drawing wasn't all that unusual — the remarkable part was that her prophetic dream enabled her to win the same lottery twice.
 
gnome said:
You don't believe that it is possible to be convinced you are remembering something accurately, but be mistaken after all? A bold statement. Personal certainty is no substitute for evidence.

I would say that it IS something you choose to believe if you dismiss alternate explanations without rigorous examination.
Click to expand...

I have examined it rigorously, spanning over two decades. If I were to say I never had a dream come true, I would be lying. They are undeniably accurate future events.

This does allow me to relate to the challenges of understanding the problem. Aristotle skeptically debated the reality of precognition in 350BC in his paper, "On Prophesying by Dreams".

It is not something that is exclusive to my own experiences many people have reported such expeirences and here are just some samples.

President Abraham Lincoln, weeks before his assassination, dreamt of his death. Author Mark Twain had a dream involving the death of his brother Henry weeks before Henry would die in a riverboat accident, with remarkable and uncanny detail in regard to the funeral that followed.

British painter David Mandell dreamt three times of planes crashing into the twin towers. In 1996 he painted a picture of such a dream and had it time-stamped in a photograph using his bank's clock for reference.

German actress Christine Mylius would send her dreams to Professor Bender at the Institute for Borderline Areas of Psychology for archiving. When she would have a dream come true, they would reference it in the archives. Irish aeronautical engineer J. W. Dunne would keep a detailed account of his dreams and using the Scientific Method would investigate his own precognitive dreams.

Based on my experiences with it, and the historical accounts and on going research I am quite satisfied in this knowledge of precognitive dreams as a matter of fact, and not fiction or fancy. It is very real.
 
I have vivid dreams about once in a blue moon, but no matter what I do, I'm still not able to "lucid dream". The moment I realize I'm dreaming, I wake up.
 
YouAreDreaming said:
http://www.oddee.com/item_95629.aspx

Won the lottery twice after a dream

Many successful lottery entrants have said their winning combinations came to them in dreams; that they awoke with five or six numbers dancing in their heads, jotted the combinations down, played them, and won. Sometimes the dreamed-of numbers paid off right away, and sometimes the dreamers played those combinations for years before hitting the jackpot. So, that 86-year-old Mary Wollens of Toronto won the Ontario Lottery on 30 September 2006 after seeing "a lotto ticket and a large cheque" in a dream a couple of days before the drawing wasn't all that unusual — the remarkable part was that her prophetic dream enabled her to win the same lottery twice.
Click to expand...

Your argument gets ruined right here. Probabilities regarding the lottery are well studied and dreamers are not skewing what the laws of probability are and will always be. Dreamers are just that -- full of wishful thinking but devoid of statistical evidence.
 
Rodney said:
Can you cite a study supporting your position?
Click to expand...

I'm not going to bother to find one. Just the fact the lottery exists as a revenue stream for the state proves there is no "dream" faction of the population winning disproportionately. Just one "dream" person who could predict tomorrows numbers consistently would discredit the entire operation.

Woo is woo for a reason.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom