Lucid Dreaming - Consciousness During Sleep.

I often dream that I have insomnia and feel refreshingly exhausted in the morning. What's that all about?
 
AdMan said:
It's been a while since my last lucid dream, but for me they usually happen when I am close to waking up. I assume my brain is just about to come out of REM sleep and that is why a bit of woken-up consciousness starts to creep in, and I realize I am dreaming. That's why for me lucid dreams are usually quite short and end up with me waking up.

They can be quite fun while they last, though. I can control things as well.
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Me also.
I don't remember anything special about them though.
 
Has anyone else ever had the problem of knowing you are dreaming and being able to control some things but not others?
 
Weak Kitten said:
Has anyone else ever had the problem of knowing you are dreaming and being able to control some things but not others?
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I've had this. Out of curiosity, which things do you feel you can't control?

Also when I have tried to change scenery every once in awhile it seems like nothing is going to happen. Then just when it seems it isn't going to work, everything goes black and the scene appears.

Also, my mind does not always deliver up to me exactly what I am expecting, so I will be trying to imagine myself at a beautiful ocean and instead of the place I have in mind, I wind up in a beautiful ocean that is running between 2 city streets.
 
I tried many techniques too .. to no avail .. and then it happened by itself .. problem is to distinguish between 'now I control my dream' and 'I had a dream that I can control my dream' ..
 
A good comparison might be whether what you were interested in controlling or observing is in line with your usual waking mind, or as muddled as dreams usually are.

If I dream that I'm aware of dreaming, and start looking into corners to see how "fleshed out" the dream is, or trying to "find" people that I would enjoy having be participants in the dream, or acting out wish fulfillment that I might just as likely fantasize about when awake... then that could be evidence that the "lucid" dreaming actually happened as such.

If, on the other hand, I seem more interested in making my dream self look around for the right pair of scissors (instead of the weird pairs that keep turning up)... well, maybe "lucidity" was actually just a dream element.

I'm not sure it can always be that simple though. I feel like something mathematical can describe this better--how to classify it if my dream illusion lucidity happens to match my waking interests randomly?

Could there be a parallel to the discussion of whether "free will" is an illusion?
 
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My favorite is when I'm traveling, and change from one thing to another while in motion.. plane to car to foot..
And on foot, I -glide-! Like on a hoverboard, but just shoes.. uphill, downhill, very fast. I'd love to move like that! :)
But then it becomes slogging through muck and mire... :(
 
gnome said:
A good comparison might be whether what you were interested in controlling or observing is in line with your usual waking mind, or as muddled as dreams usually are.

If I dream that I'm aware of dreaming, and start looking into corners to see how "fleshed out" the dream is, or trying to "find" people that I would enjoy having be participants in the dream, or acting out wish fulfillment that I might just as likely fantasize about when awake... then that could be evidence that the "lucid" dreaming actually happened as such.

If, on the other hand, I seem more interested in making my dream self look around for the right pair of scissors (instead of the weird pairs that keep turning up)... well, maybe "lucidity" was actually just a dream element.

I'm not sure it can always be that simple though. I feel like something mathematical can describe this better--how to classify it if my dream illusion lucidity happens to match my waking interests randomly?

Could there be a parallel to the discussion of whether "free will" is an illusion?
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Dreams are largely a sub-conscious process whereby directing our focus and intent we can then over-ride this sub-conscious process and inject our own ideas and thoughts which then render out into the dream scape during a lucid dream.

There are also gradients of awareness which with must respect seem to follow the medical levels of consciousness, here is a wiki link with the range.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_level_of_consciousness

Although there may be variants on these levels of consciousness during dreaming, I think this system is a good starting point for us to understand why some of us are conscious in a dream, and others are not. You can have a spectrum that spans totally unconscious to fully conscious. And find yourself stuck anywhere in between.

Now once we are conscious in a dream there is the opportunity to override the sub-conscious mechanics at work and change the dream content to something more interesting or desired. At this point, it really is a thought exercise and an act of will.

"Free Will" in a dream should be self-evident when you willingly change the dream, or make logical choices directing your attention in that state. If you are simply responding to the dream data and engaging it without taking control then certainly the idea of free will is lessened by being influenced by the dream content. And that does indeed happen. Many times dream characters distract me from the fact I am lucid dreaming and my focus shifts so that I am no longer lucid and in control of the dream.

You raise some interesting points and it's always fascinating to try to understand the mechanics of dreaming as here we find natures very own virtual reality simulator right inside our own grey matter.

That itself is quite an amazing feat of evolution and nature.
 
I Ratant said:
My favorite is when I'm traveling, and change from one thing to another while in motion.. plane to car to foot..
And on foot, I -glide-! Like on a hoverboard, but just shoes.. uphill, downhill, very fast. I'd love to move like that! :)
But then it becomes slogging through muck and mire... :(
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This brings back some of my early memories when I started lucid dreaming at the age of 15 (now 39) so make that 24 years of exploring this fun sleep induced activity.

When I first started to fly, I admit I did the whole dog paddle or frog swim to get started at first. Eventually it was the classic superman pose with arms stretched out and we've all seen that. Eventually, I started to get more influenced by X-Men comics as I started to do the whole Magneto vertical hover and fly while standing. Then it evolved to teleportation.

All of these are merely self-induced limitations in an area where no-limits need apply. We are the dreamers of our dreams so surely we can do what ever our imagination can express.

For me, the fun and adventurous nature of lucid dreaming is why it has such an appeal. To this date, no man made technology has been able to replicate the virtual reality nature of a first-person lucid dream experience. Perhaps I've spoiled myself too much with exploiting this natural holodeck of the mind.
 
In my experience it is possible to fade out of lucid dreaming and back into a normal dream without even realizing it, so there will be a point when you are only semi-lucid, but a truly lucid dream is when you feel as if you are wide awake and fully conscious inside a dream world.

I read about research recently showing that the frontal lobes are not active during dreaming sleep. Granted I have a minimal understanding of neuroscience, but maybe that helps to account for why we freely do things in dreams we probably wouldn't do in real life (lack of higher judgment centers).

I wonder if this is also true of lucid dreaming?
 
I hate dream-teleportation. I always feel like I have been "tossed" to the other location and it takes a few moments to even be aware of where I "am". Not only that it is rarely somewhere that it is useful or worthwhile for me to be.
 
Flying is great, and all...
But I can't be the only person who's turned a lucid dream into a sexual fantasy...

Or am I? :o
 
ExMinister said:
In my experience it is possible to fade out of lucid dreaming and back into a normal dream without even realizing it, so there will be a point when you are only semi-lucid, but a truly lucid dream is when you feel as if you are wide awake and fully conscious inside a dream world.

I read about research recently showing that the frontal lobes are not active during dreaming sleep. Granted I have a minimal understanding of neuroscience, but maybe that helps to account for why we freely do things in dreams we probably wouldn't do in real life (lack of higher judgment centers).

I wonder if this is also true of lucid dreaming?
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The shutdown of brain function during sleep will obviously affect our cognition during dreams. My theory is that when the frontal temporal lobes and hippocampus lower function during sleep, we enter a state of sleep induced amnesia.

This is why it's hard to remember most dreams (according to sleep laboratory findings we have as many as 6 dreams per night) and may not remember any.

Knowing that the two main memory centers of the brain shut down or limit function suggest amnesia is the cause of lack-of-dream recall on waking.

Lucid dreaming may allow for enough activity in these and other centers to facilitate what is required for memory, cognitive thought etc to take place.

I have no doubts sleep induced amnesia is something that could be peer-reviewed and accepted as it simply makes logical sense when dealing with the memory centers deactivating during sleep.
 
YouAreDreaming said:
With holding details, you won't be the first nor the last. And why not, it's your dream.
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Yup, that was somewhat of a facetious question as I'm sure people do it. It's just I've rarely seen it discussed when people talk about the kind of things they do in lucid dreams for some reason. :D
 
OP, have you ever heard of someone waking up in a state of deep dreamless sleep?
 
ExMinister said:
I've had this. Out of curiosity, which things do you feel you can't control?
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Anything that involves breaking the laws of normal reality interestingly enough. I'll know I'm dreaming, I'll know I should be able to fly or change shape or throw fireballs but I just can't get it to quite work. There's a feeling of serious effort and sometimes I can get it to work partially but other times I just wake myself up in frustration.

I guess I just have a really strong sense of reality that sometimes shows up in my dreams too.
 
I'm not sure flying/going through walls/teleportation are really lucid dreams, at least not for me. I do realize I'm dreaming sometimes, but usually I simply don't care. I did get a big 'screw-you' from my subconscious once, how I usually determine that I'm in reality is I look around, in dreams I'm not so aware of my surroundings. This dream, I really hoped it wasn't a dream and reassured myself that it wasn't by looking around and seeing my surroundings. It was a dream, the schoolbag was still gone.
 
I remember learning to do this when I was around eight years old. I remember the first time. I became aware that I was asleep and dreaming. So first I tried to lift my arm. I remember being somewhat successful, but everything in the dreamscape around me started to fade quickly... I assumed I was waking myself up, so I stopped doing it. To this day I wonder if I actually managed to get my arm off the bed and into the air.
 
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