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LOU GENTILE, EVP Applicant

If you show a card with a number in it in a room while properly blindfolded and ask what the number is, (etc just like lordofthelefthand suggested) will it be more likely that the voice answers something like "five" instead of "green" or "rapsberry juice"? I know this might sound offending, but please bear with me, I'm honestly curious and fashinated about this!

That's true. But lets say the numbers on the card are randomly determined between 1 and 20, and 10 cards are used. Since the applicant does no know what number was on the card, if he tries to guess he will have a 5% chance of getting each card correct. By my figuring he would have a 0.0000000000098 % chance of getting 10 out of 10 correct (if he is guessing). Should be just about impossible, unless ghosts are actually talking to the recording...

LLH
 
Ok

As for protocols for eliminating external interference the first thing that would occur to me is the use of a Farraday cage. We have used this in the past and still obtained succsesful results so certainly could do so again. Using technology to scan radio frequencies also would certainly help(another common part of testing). Also quite honestly the nature of questions can make a major difference. I'm not an expert in statistics but I would think that if you get an inteligeble answer that fits the question (bearing in mind theres only 60 seconds alloted between each question) the odds are not in favor of a random radio signal hitting the recorder at just the right time with just the right word. Its not impossible which is of course the point of repeating it. As for the cards its a good suggestion and some thing else we'll look into.

In general several aspects of the test were specified by us just to narrow down the possibility of cheating. This is precisely why we stipulated that the recorders and the persons involved are to be subject to examination before the test and after any arranged break. Fitting us with throat mikes is also completely acceptable. As to the recorder itself it should be in the same room but beyond that theres no need for direct interaction between it and Mr Gentile. It would be fine on the other side of the room under complete video survelence for example(I'd have to double check with Mr Gentile but being in a box away from him might work as well as long as the box wasn't so thick as to interfere with his asking questions.
 
I'm not an expert in statistics but I would think that if you get an inteligeble answer that fits the question (bearing in mind theres only 60 seconds alloted between each question) the odds are not in favor of a random radio signal hitting the recorder at just the right time with just the right word. Its not impossible which is of course the point of repeating it. As for the cards its a good suggestion and some thing else we'll look into.
I don't think anyone suggests the voices picked up are 'random radio signals' - the chances are too small, or it wouldn't be considered paranormal, unless the claim is that lou's presence amplifies random radio signals (so he works as a kind of an amplifier)
The fact that the answer is 'on subject' and 'intelligeble' is irrelevant, since Lou will know up front that there will be cards shown with numbers on it.

In general several aspects of the test were specified by us just to narrow down the possibility of cheating.
i'm not worried about the ones you specified (since obviously they don't give up the trick), I'm worried about the ones you didn't specify.
How about using a high class finely tuned voice recorder?

Fitting us with throat mikes is also completely acceptable.
Glad to read that.

As much as I'd like to see the claim tested, I don't like the fact that it requires a specific recorder. maybe it's the recorder model that is paranormal? :)

Kevin, you said you don't know the nature of the voices (although you obviously have an opinion) - are you sure the voices will be able to say the card numbers even if Lou does not see the cards?
 
I thought we had decided that the voices were caused by the voice clarification technology that is a feature of the recorders being specified.
 
OK Maybe I Should Have Been Clearer

I do not know for certain whether what ever it is will be able to read the cards. To answer it I plan on running tests specificly of that sort and see what happens. As for the recorder Mr Gentile has gotten EVPs with every thing from reel to reel to the latest in digital recorders using a host of different microphones. His succsess rate with most recorders is about one hit out of fifty questions. The time required to produce meaningful results at that ratio would be frustrating at best. With the specified recorder Mr Gentile can get consistent accurate results which is why we're insisting on using one specific type of recorder. If the concern is some hidden transmitter in the recorder itself a qualified engineer should not have trouble finding it especially if a representative of the company itself can be contacted. Further proper shielding obviously should be in place to block external signals either random or delibarete factors that can be further minimized by using a location Mr Gentile is not aware of till the test takes place that is some distance from Philadelphia. Combine that with shielding, throat mikes, and a thorough search of Mr Gentile, myself and the recorder and you can realisticly eliminate the possibility of deception.
 
I have a further question:

Is this a digital recorder? IF so what is the test control against the player's fragmented ram or flash memory inserting something into the recording per error? Also, what about the question of whether that specific recorder model has a history of errors with the voice clarification technology?

It would stand to reason that if this specific recorder was consistently erroring in a way to produce voices, then some way of clearing the memory and having a tech reset to factory settings/conditions would help.
 
Its The Model

Since its any example of the model bringing in a new one entirely would eliminate the possibility of prerecordings. For that matter as you pointed out turning it over to the manufacturer or a similarly qualified person should be able to eliminate those possibilities by making sure its completely wiped clean.
 
fyi

Unfotttunately I broke my right wrist recently. As such I eon't be responding to posts for a while..
 
Apparantly, these are the kind of EVPs that this guy claims to be able to produce.
(URL deleted as I'm not allowed to repost it)

That's all he's able to produce? Pathetic. This is just noise. The only one where one could hear something that faintly resembles speech melody and rhythm is the one supposed to be "please don't harm me". And that might also be "I hate the army", "I cursed the fig tree", "Man, it's cold here!" or "Insert a coin here".

I don't think you'd get 2 independent listeners to write down the same sentence afterwards.
 
A Quick Update

First thanks for the concern. Secondly no the stuff online is not our best thats generaly reserved for lectures or the show. Finally I can add at last report(a few days ago) Mr Gentile had not been contacted by JREF in over a month not even a curtesy email to inform us of Krammer's departure. Given that we've held up our side this is disappointing although we are still interested.
 
Kevin, I don't think he should take it personally. If you read through the main site banners, you will see very quickly that the JREF has had a few other things going on lately.
 
I looked over some of Mr. Gentile's previous recordings under some digital audio editing equipment, and found a strange digital signature.

When looking at a word, or sequence of words digitally, we can actually pick out where a vowel or consonant begin and end. A consonant requires a stoppage of air, and is therefore a sharper, stronger signal (like a spike), where vowels are generally the continuation of air, and get a decreasing signal, or a much slower, smoother signal when beginning a word. So, we can easily detect where a consonant begins after a vowel. We can also interpret vowels by how far apart the consonants are without silence, and when a word begins with a vowel.

What I've found so far in Mr. Gentile's recordings is the near absence of consonants. Instead of spikes, the words in question are simply showing solid blocks of audio data. The only consonant found is at the begining of the sound, and there are no spikes thereafter to signify consonants, and no dropage in signal to signify a following vowel. This points to the explanation given by skoob earlier about the technology of the recorder.

Considering that there are no consonants or vowels to detect, I don't understand how he is interpreting words (as they would be unintelligible) other than to interpret the pitch, rhythm, and tone of the sound. Can anybody find a phrase he has detected that begins with a vowel so I can compare them?

Also finding a result of 1 in 50, especially on reel to reel (about the only non-digital recording device still used) does not seem particularly significant. A reel tape may have defects, a kink in the tape, or if the tape had been previously edited, that would all cause certain strange sounds. This all causes me to question why he gets the best results with lowest quality recorder? It seems very counter-intuitive.
 
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I do not know for certain whether what ever it is will be able to read the cards. To answer it I plan on running tests specificly of that sort and see what happens.
Well, can we get an update? Can 'the voices' read the cards that Lou himself can't see?

Secondly no the stuff online is not our best thats generaly reserved for lectures or the show.
Why not? I'd have thought you'd like to get your best on the web site, to generate more interest

[QOUTE]Finally I can add at last report(a few days ago) Mr Gentile had not been contacted by JREF in over a month not even a curtesy email to inform us of Krammer's departure. Given that we've held up our side this is disappointing although we are still interested.[/QUOTE]
It sure is disappointing.
Peachy:
This all causes me to question why he gets the best results with lowest quality recorder? It seems very counter-intuitive.
Well, we've been told in this thread that the technology of this recorder tends to produce sounds when there are none, because of the use of some sort of interpolation. If the noise is anything like a sound it will convert it into one.
 
Update

Quick update: First I've been busy with personal matters and healing which is the reason for the delay. Second we've checked into the envelopes and the verdict is yes they will work. Some one more disconcerting is reports that have reached us that Randi is preparing to do interviews and is planning on giving the fact we have not sent him a list of questions as the delay(yes I am aware of the post regarding his healing which is understandably and we wish him the best). For the record no request has ever been sent for a list of questions(we hadn't sent one originaly to allow for input from JREF) so we were incapable of sending it. Any one interested can find a copy of every correspondence we've sent or recieved at the lougentile.com website,
 
LordoftheLeftHand
14th February 2006, 05:38 PM
KevinM:

Previously I suggested a test protocol that would eliminate many of the potential problems with testing a claim of this sort. Would the following be an acceptable way to test this claim?

The applicant would be properly blindfolded next to a stack of cards. Each card would have a large number printed on one side. The recording would be started. The applicant would pick up the first card and show it to the room and ask the voices to speak the number that is on the card. After a set amount of time the recording would be stopped and the media would be ejected from the recorder and be labeled “1st Card”. New media would be inserted and the process repeated for the second card.

This would be done an agreed upon number of times. When finished the applicant would be given a sufficient amount of time to review the recordings. The applicant would write the number he thinks he hears on the media. When the applicant is finished, the number on the first card will be compared to the number written on the media. Repeat this for each card/media. If enough of the cards match the number written by the applicant on the media, the test would be considered a success!

Hi, newbie to the forum. I like this idea, except the cards assume entities (whoever they are) are capable of seeing. That's too much of an assumption. For all we know "they" can only hear us.
 
Hi, newbie to the forum. I like this idea, except the cards assume entities (whoever they are) are capable of seeing. That's too much of an assumption. For all we know "they" can only hear us.

If that was the case, the protocol I suggested could be adapted to incorporate this limitation.

Of course this applicant seems to have disappeared. Apparently he did not need the million dollars. Or maybe he realized he was not going to be able to pull the wool over the JREF's eyes. Or perhaps he went back on his medication...

LLH
 
How would you propose adapting the test to accommodate this "problem"?
 
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