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Loose Change

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geggy said:
Is what you think it was that exploded an evidence of what you think it was that exploded?
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...th... that wasn't even a sentence!

geggy said:
There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers, very much like that one.
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Oh, I disagree. There are TONS of stupid questions.

Wanna see one ? Here you go:

geggy said:
Is what you think it was that exploded an evidence of what you think it was that exploded?
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dubfan said:
OMFG I do believe you're right -- I think I see what might be a glimmer of reason starting to flicker over there.
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Problem is, this engineer has likely read the NIST report, but read how the Loosers have deliberately misread it. One of them pulled out the claim that "NIST metallurgical tests say the temps never got above 500 degrees.'

That claim is not true. The tests which, were only done on a small fraction of the metal columns (the ones that could be identified) were done by examining the effects on the paint. Those columns exposed to higher temps had all the paint detroyed and so could not be tested in such a matter.

Seriously, have any of the Loose Changers actually read the work that NIST did? Its not like it is hidden!
 
chipmunk stew said:
The LC forum mods seem to have backed off a bit if anyone wants in. Maybe because they've gotten more traffic--harder to police--or maybe because they've been getting bad "press" about their heavy-handedness.
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I PMd some of the moderators about my posting problems there:
Why do I get a this message when I post "The moderator team needs to review your message before it can be seen". And then I never see any of my posts.

Is this the way to handle critique? If you don't like dissenting voices just delete my account then.
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This is the responce from JFK:
Karim, Welcome to the forums.
You should have no problem posting now.

Please keep in mind, Dissent is fine as long as you keep it civil, clean and please do not spam.
We have many young people here. ( 10 and up. )
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It is a smart move for them not to ban everybody that disagree. That forum would be too crazy for any new recruits to the cult without sceptics.
 
Thoughts on thermite and molten metal

I had what is I think an original thought. CTs are always claiming that there was molten metal in the WTC debris for weeks after the collapse, suggesting to them that thermite was used. While that's not very plausible for other reasons, I think that I can show that long-lasting underground hot spots cannot be due to thermite.

The reason that underground fires can burn for so long is the lack of oxygen, right? The fires can burn only as fast as fresh air can seep in, providing a necessary part of the chemical reaction that is fire.

I just checked, and the thermite reaction does not require oxygen from the air. What happens is that the oxygen atoms in iron oxide leave the iron and bond with the aluminum molecules, which releases lots of heat. No air required. This means that if there were any thermite reactions there, they would have happened immediately, then the heat would have quickly dissipated. Molten metal days later can't be due to thermite reactions.
 
karim or dubfan, could someone try to get me (CurtC over there as well) un-suspended? I can't even PM anyone with a suspended account. I was always polite and civil.
 
Interesting thread over there:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=414

Started by a AA (?) Flight Attendant who knew Betty Ong. It is astonishing how much 9/11 conspiracy drivel she debunks in that one thread. She subscribes to the LIHOP theory (i.e., Bush Let It Happen On Purpose) -- so she's not totally dismissed as a shill. But the reluctance to accept her obvious expertise and sincerity are astounding. And she's a conspiracy theorist herself (LIHOP, WTC = controlled demo, Bush knew, etc.)!!!

The treatment she receives there is...breathtaking.
 
dubfan said:
Interesting thread over there:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=414

Started by a AA (?) Flight Attendant who knew Betty Ong. It is astonishing how much 9/11 conspiracy drivel she debunks in that one thread. She subscribes to the LIHOP theory (i.e., Bush Let It Happen On Purpose) -- so she's not totally dismissed as a shill. But the reluctance to accept her obvious expertise and sincerity are astounding. And she's a conspiracy theorist herself (LIHOP, WTC = controlled demo, Bush knew, etc.)!!!

The treatment she receives there is...breathtaking.
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Oh gawd...

Quoting "Canadian Raven" from that thread:

The only problem I have with the simplest explaination is it doesn't explain how these guys learned how to fly like JAG pilots.
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(my emphasis)

"JAG" was a cheesy TV action/drama about a former navy fighter pilot turned lawyer for the JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL 's office.

The show itself was as much a realistic portrayal of the JAG corps as "Lethal Weapon" was about police work. Every bloody week the writers of "JAG" would come up with some outrageuosly contrived excuse to put this LAWYER back into the cockpit of an F-14 that he was technically no longer qualified to fly! One week, he's shooting down terrorist cruise missles aimed at US carriers, the next he's shooting down hijacked cessnas being flown into oil rigs. It's like this LAWYER is the first jet jockey to reach coveted "Ace" status (5+ confirmed air-to-air kills) AFTER taking a desk job!

In the real world of course, there are no JAG pilots. Though there are likely members of the JAG corps who have pilot certifications, however they probably only get stick time in front of thier PC's at home.

When we're dealing with people who take ridiculously contrived hollywood fantasies as accurate depictions of the real world, is it any wonder they fall so easily for these retardedly illogical conspiracy theories?
 
dubfan said:
Interesting thread over there:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=414

Started by a AA (?) Flight Attendant who knew Betty Ong. It is astonishing how much 9/11 conspiracy drivel she debunks in that one thread. She subscribes to the LIHOP theory (i.e., Bush Let It Happen On Purpose) -- so she's not totally dismissed as a shill. But the reluctance to accept her obvious expertise and sincerity are astounding. And she's a conspiracy theorist herself (LIHOP, WTC = controlled demo, Bush knew, etc.)!!!

The treatment she receives there is...breathtaking.
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she did have a good line though
"The truth is like iodine, it only hurts when it's helping."
 
Pardalis said:
geggy, where does this "frontal lobe"/"amnesia" BS come from?
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He can't remember.

Something whith his frontal lobe hippocampus after the cognitive and emotional overload induced by him posting in this thread and receiving logically well-formulated answers ultimately grounded in evidence, expertise, and even, *shock* commonsense.
 
CurtC said:
I had what is I think an original thought. CTs are always claiming that there was molten metal in the WTC debris for weeks after the collapse, suggesting to them that thermite was used. While that's not very plausible for other reasons, I think that I can show that long-lasting underground hot spots cannot be due to thermite.

The reason that underground fires can burn for so long is the lack of oxygen, right? The fires can burn only as fast as fresh air can seep in, providing a necessary part of the chemical reaction that is fire.

I just checked, and the thermite reaction does not require oxygen from the air. What happens is that the oxygen atoms in iron oxide leave the iron and bond with the aluminum molecules, which releases lots of heat. No air required. This means that if there were any thermite reactions there, they would have happened immediately, then the heat would have quickly dissipated. Molten metal days later can't be due to thermite reactions.
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That fits in with the article I linked back on post 4039. Every time they would clear the debris, the fires would flare up again once the hot spots were exposed to more oxygen.
 
Just had a thought.

Saying that the fact that Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to go to war proves he was involved in the terrorist attack is akin to saying that thieves who looted New Orleans caused the flooding.
 
CurtC said:
I had what is I think an original thought. CTs are always claiming that there was molten metal in the WTC debris for weeks after the collapse, suggesting to them that thermite was used. While that's not very plausible for other reasons, I think that I can show that long-lasting underground hot spots cannot be due to thermite.

The reason that underground fires can burn for so long is the lack of oxygen, right? The fires can burn only as fast as fresh air can seep in, providing a necessary part of the chemical reaction that is fire.

I just checked, and the thermite reaction does not require oxygen from the air. What happens is that the oxygen atoms in iron oxide leave the iron and bond with the aluminum molecules, which releases lots of heat. No air required. This means that if there were any thermite reactions there, they would have happened immediately, then the heat would have quickly dissipated. Molten metal days later can't be due to thermite reactions.
Click to expand...

I think someone suggested something like this at the BAUTforum. I'm pretty sure it was in the 'Scholars for 911 truth website opens' topic. That one got pretty long as well, though.

Edit to add: Starts here with Chainsaw's post: http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=37585&page=34
 
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