Loose Change

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Gravy said:
Does ANYONE here really need to remind you that no one contacted Donald Rumsfeld before scrambling jets on 9/11?
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geggy said:
Ok...I'll make this easier for you...
So he was having a plate of eggs and bakey while America was under attack. If you were first told that NYC had been attacked with planes and you were the man responsible for giving orders to deploy fighter jets, what would you do? Would you either..
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Priceless.
 
Tirdun said:
WHAT ARE YOU BABBLING ON ABOUT?!?

Rumsfeld+bacon=controlled demolition?
Rumsfeld+bacon=government foreknowlege?
Rumsfeld+bacon=government control?
Rumsfeld+bacon=not commercial jets?

Your connect the dots logic is... staggering.
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Tirdun, perhaps you're not aware that an anagram for "Rumsfeld bacon" is "Adolf curbs men."
 
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Pardalis said:
Talk about soft-spoken madmen...

Nice film Karim. Some of the interviews I have never seen before!
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Thank you. Yes my film is much better than Loose Change:)

On a few occasions I've given some good quality OBL footage to CT:s and it is amazing to me how they can just ignore and state that it's "fake". They only "analyze" some blurry still frames. Yet even in the 30 minute appearance that was shown on al-jazeera like 3 moths after 911 and which the most CT:s agree is "real" he praises the attackers and encourages to Jihad. And still some CT:s say "Osama is innocent" and the "confession tape" is fake. If it is not real Osama in the tape then what are he's sons doing in it?


Peace
 
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geggy said:
If you were first told that NYC had been attacked with planes and you were the man responsible for giving orders to deploy fighter jets, what would you do? Would you either..

1. Continue with your breakfast.
OR
2. Jump out of your seat and rush to the command center.
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This reminds me of the George W. Bush/My Pet Goat incident.

If you are planning something like 9/11 to boost your own image and power, when the news comes through that it has happened, do you:

a) make yourself look good by appearing to take dynamic action when told about it, or;

b) sit staring into space for seven minutes (or however long it was) thus giving the impression that you have no idea what to do?
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
The flight recorder said it was actually only doing 350mph or something of that order, if I recall correctly.
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Do we have the flight data recorder for AA77? I was thinking that flight 93 in Pennsylvania is the only one to have recoverable recorders.

BTW, doesn't Loose Change state that (the official version says that) Hanjour made the big turn over DC at 530 mph? I would think that he would have accelerated on "final" going into the Pentagon (full throttle plus descent = speed), implying that the turn speed would be slower.
 
karim said:
Thank you. Yes my film is much better than Loose Change:)

On a few occasions I've given some good quality OBL footage to CT:s and it is amazing to me how they can just ignore and state that it's "fake". They only "analyze" some blurry still frames. Yet even in the 30 minute appearance that was shown on al-jazeera like 3 moths after 911 and which the most CT:s agree is "real" he praises the attackers and encourages to Jihad. And still some CT:s say "Osama is innocent" and the "confession tape" is fake. If it is not real Osama in the tape then what are he's sons doing in it?


Peace
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(karim, I'm just getting a blank page when I go to the site you provided. Am I doing something wrong? Is this the correct url?: http://www.izdahara.tk/ Thanks.)
 
chipmunk stew said:
(karim, I'm just getting a blank page when I go to the site you provided. Am I doing something wrong? Is this the correct url?: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thanks.)
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It worked for me. If not for you then try: .karim.co.nr

I can PM you a direct link if there's some conspiracy blocking your connection.:)
 
Though the Google video version has some audio issues. I recommend the much better quality rmvb...

.archive.org/details/The_Paladin_of_Jihad
 
CurtC said:
Do we have the flight data recorder for AA77? I was thinking that flight 93 in Pennsylvania is the only one to have recoverable recorders.
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I could be wrong, because I have no cite, but I have the idea in my head that the flight recorder for AA77 was indeed found and used as evidence in the Moussaoui trial.

BTW, doesn't Loose Change state that (the official version says that) Hanjour made the big turn over DC at 530 mph? I would think that he would have accelerated on "final" going into the Pentagon (full throttle plus descent = speed), implying that the turn speed would be slower.
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They do, but I've seen absolutely no basis for their claim. I strongly suspect that they take the 530mph figure from the 9/11 commission report, and blithely assume that if Hanjour hit the Pentagon at 530mph he must have performed all of his previous manoeuvres at 530mph. That's the kind of "research" I expect from Dylan et. al.
 
geggy said:
Cooperativeresearch.org (which is, unfortunately, down right now) had made over 400 points with sources as back up proving the white house knew what was coming and did absolutely nothing to beef up security.
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How convenient for you that the site's down, then.

Also where was rumsfeld and w. bush, the supposedly commander in chief, on the morning of the attack?
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What would his location say about the attacks, geggy ?
 
geggy said:
Ok...I'll make this easier for you...

"We investigated very carefully Mr. Rumsfeld's actions," said Hamilton. "He was having breakfast with Congressional leaders, and they hear a plane has hit the Pentagon, and he runs out."

http://motherjones.com/news/update/2004/07/07_400.html

So he was having a plate of eggs and bakey while America was under attack. If you were first told that NYC had been attacked with planes and you were the man responsible for giving orders to deploy fighter jets, what would you do? Would you either..

1. Continue with your breakfast.
OR
2. Jump out of your seat and rush to the command center.
Click to expand...

Didn't you just said he ran out ?
 
karim said:
Thank you. Yes my film is much better than Loose Change:)

On a few occasions I've given some good quality OBL footage to CT:s and it is amazing to me how they can just ignore and state that it's "fake". They only "analyze" some blurry still frames. Yet even in the 30 minute appearance that was shown on al-jazeera like 3 moths after 911 and which the most CT:s agree is "real" he praises the attackers and encourages to Jihad. And still some CT:s say "Osama is innocent" and the "confession tape" is fake. If it is not real Osama in the tape then what are he's sons doing in it?
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Some people here have expressed concerns that the Loosers may actually be helping Bin Laden this way, wittingly or not.


Peace
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They'll never agree to it.
 
Mojo said:
This reminds me of the George W. Bush/My Pet Goat incident.

If you are planning something like 9/11 to boost your own image and power, when the news comes through that it has happened, do you:

a) make yourself look good by appearing to take dynamic action when told about it, or;

b) sit staring into space for seven minutes (or however long it was) thus giving the impression that you have no idea what to do?
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Many CTers argue that Bush wasn't even involved in 9/11. Maybe that's why he looked so stunned when reading "My Pet Goat." "Hey, how come I was out of the loop on this? I'm the Presifreakindent!"

It's a similar situation with Rumsfeld. If he had known about the attacks, I think he would have acted more like a guy "in charge." geggy is arguing that Rumsfeld was negligent in not being in command after hearing of the attacks. I actually agree to an extent, but I just wanted to see if geggy was willing to do his homework. Apparently not. Rumsfeld's actions on the morning of 9/11 are not flattering to him, but the details are a bit sketchy. When he heard of the second plane in NY, he was not at breakfast, but was in his office having a CIA briefing. He asked to be kept informed, but we don't know if he gave any "orders" at that point. (And the questions during his 9/11 Commission testimony don't cover that.) It wasn't until several minutes later, when flight 77 hit the Pentagon, that he went into "action," which consisted of seeing if he could help with rescue efforts...an understandable "human" reaction, but not exactly what I'd expect the number 2 commander in the U.S. to do. I want him heading for the bunker where the red phones are. It wasn't until after 10:00 that he became actively involved in important decision-making. Before that, he acted like a bureaucratic administrator, not a commander.
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
I could be wrong, because I have no cite, but I have the idea in my head that the flight recorder for AA77 was indeed found and used as evidence in the Moussaoui trial.
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Both recorders, cockpit voice and flight data, were recovered from flight 77. There was nothing usable from the cockpit data recorder. There was info recovered from the flight data recorder. I'll check that out tonight.

Kevin_Lowe said:
They do, but I've seen absolutely no basis for their claim. I strongly suspect that they take the 530mph figure from the 9/11 commission report, and blithely assume that if Hanjour hit the Pentagon at 530mph he must have performed all of his previous manoeuvres at 530mph. That's the kind of "research" I expect from Dylan et. al.
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I tend to agree. They use the same speed for his maneuvers at 7,000 feet as for the impact 3 minutes later, which seems unlikely. Air traffic controllers remarked at the time that the maneuvers (or maneuver) were unsafe for a 757, but I'm not aware of anything that says the plane was going that fast.
 
dubfan said:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3865

Yeah, it's an explosive movement alright.

An explosive bowel movement.
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Oh, I've read "Sun Zoo's" posts before. he's completely besotted with Avery and Rowe. It's creepy. Here's some of his advice for them:
Be certain to submit the first (next) release for competition in next year's Sundance Film Festival. It will win hands down I think. And that will also give it even more "umpf" for continued play in theaters, and in video stores + set the stage for the next Loose Change: In Search of Truth (sounds like Star Treck: In Search of Spock).

This way - almost every aspect of 9/11 CAN in fact get told, and it's important to have something important to tell the world, if you are to become a truly great movie producer.

And so what if you capitalize on the success of F911 with the title Loose Change 911 and rake in 50-100 million or more in the process. Money is power also, used wisely.
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And this was moved "Under the Bridge," the place for trolls, not because of the responses to it, but because of the OP!
I do hope they keep the faith and remain committed to the same principals from which their success arose in the first place, that they stay humble and don't get cocky or arrogant. Sometimes I smell just a touch of it with Dylan. Perhaps I'll be banned for even saying this, but it's important. Stay humble guys and keep the faith. Always give back more than you get and you'll always get back more and more. You're in the limelight now. Therefore now more than ever is the time to remain humble and not get cocky, arrogant, or rude.
Now is when it matters most.
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Cocky? Arrogant? Rude? Moi?

eta: under the bridge quote
 
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It should have been known that Rumsfeld had an appointment to meet with congress leaders for breakfast/CIA briefing. So why did it take so long to inform him that America was under attack? Why did they wait until 40 minutes after the WTC attacks to inform him that pentagon had been struck? Something just don't fly.

I've been wondering what was going through Bush's mind that morning. He walked into the classroom 10 minutes after north tower was struck. He was going through photo op when the south tower was struck. Andy Card walked into the classroom to inform him that america was under attack then walked out right away without waiting for Bush's response. Bush just sat there with his poker face for another god knows how long. It wasn't the pet goat fiasco that I find most disturbing about his (in)actions. It was the fact that he comfortably slept in his own bed in the WHite House later that night knowing that some crazy jihadists had killed thousands of people without fearing that his own life may be in danger. WTF...?!!!

Manny...do you remember the daily shoving matches between firefighters and the police at ground zero because the firefighters were ordered to keep out of the rubble zone?
 
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