Loose Change

[Gravy]

As I said on the first page of my critique, I welcome emails with any well-researched corrections. The critique has been "out there" in one form or another since April 25, and none of the Loosers has emailed me with any corrections. I've found some small mistakes (I wrote Paul O'Neill rather than John, and wrote 3.5" rather than 3/4"), but I'm waiting to be corrected on any of those 81 errors of fact I reported on. From what I've seen, most of the Loosers never read beyond the first few pages.

 

[OMGturt1es]

As I said on the first page of my critique, I welcome emails with any well-researched corrections. The critique has been "out there" in one form or another since April 25, and none of the Loosers has emailed me with any corrections. I've found some small mistakes (I wrote Paul O'Neill rather than John, and wrote 3.5" rather than 3/4"), but I'm waiting to be corrected on any of those 81 errors of fact I reported on. From what I've seen, most of the Loosers never read beyond the first few pages.

yup, i've noticed that, but not just relavent to your critique; they seem to reject any evidence that does not support their position.

"its pointless you writing your long posts..i dont and never have read through any threads before posting my opinion..which is only relevant to myself..i dont care if anyone agrees with it or not..im out for myself..and always have been.
but..the OFFICIAL 911 STORY affects us all,and if it didnt happen exactly the way they claim it did..then everything they are doing right now is being done on the basis of a lie (ID CARDS,DNA TESTING,IMPRISONMENT WITHOUT TRIAL,BOMBING AFGHANISTAN,IRAQ,IRAN ETC ETC FOR **** ALL!!!)"

 

[geggy]

I already mentioned few times in this thread that I believe an AA77 crashed into the pentagon. Most of the debris may have delved into the ground afterall it was travelling at 530 mph when it hit. Plus, cops and firemen are regular joes like you and I so how'd you think they'd react if they saw something that wasn't a boeing or even if there wasn't anything at all?

Here's a good website of the debunking of no plane theory at the pentagon by an sept 11 activist...

http://flight77.info/old.htm

Like I said before, the real question should be asked is why fighter jets were not deployed at the time of the pentagon crash, especially after the fact NYC was first attacked 45 minutes prior to the pentagon crash.

More here at the sept 11 commission report on the AA77/AA11 confusion as if the communication between FAA, NEADS and NORAD was designed to fail...

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Lastly if the white house had received numerous warnings of when, where and how bin Laden was planning an operation to hijack planes and use it as missiles to strike US landmarks, then why did wargame exercises on that morning went ahead as planned on sceduled? Was it design to confuse the FAA and NEADS as to which is real and which is fake?

 

[Gravy]

Lastly if the white house had received numerous warnings of when, where and how bin Laden was planning an operation to hijack planes and use it as missiles to strike US landmarks, then why did wargame exercises on that morning went ahead as planned on sceduled? Was it design to confuse the FAA and NEADS as to which is real and which is fake?

Please provide evidence that anyone in the U.S. government knew that attacks were going to happen on September 11, 2001. Not speculation, not beliefs. Evidence.

Also, I'm sure you're aware that the NORAD exercises had been going on for days before 9/11. They weren't just planned for that day. Have you read my critique of Loose Change?


ETA NORAD info

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I already mentioned few times in this thread that I believe an AA77 crashed into the pentagon. Most of the debris may have delved into the ground afterall it was travelling at 530 mph when it hit. Plus, cops and firemen are regular joes like you and I so how'd you think they'd react if they saw something that wasn't a boeing or even if there wasn't anything at all?

Here's a good website of the debunking of no plane theory at the pentagon by an sept 11 activist...

http://flight77.info/old.htm

Like I said before, the real question should be asked is why fighter jets were not deployed at the time of the pentagon crash, especially after the fact NYC was first attacked 45 minutes prior to the pentagon crash.

More here at the sept 11 commission report on the AA77/AA11 confusion as if the communication between FAA, NEADS and NORAD was designed to fail...

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Lastly if the white house had received numerous warnings of when, where and how bin Laden was planning an operation to hijack planes and use it as missiles to strike US landmarks, then why did wargame exercises on that morning went ahead as planned on sceduled? Was it design to confuse the FAA and NEADS as to which is real and which is fake?

Enough with unsubstantiated question asking geggy. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1624471#post1624471

 

[Tirdun]

Like I said before, the real question should be asked is why fighter jets were not deployed at the time of the pentagon crash, especially after the fact NYC was first attacked 45 minutes prior to the pentagon crash.

You keep applying 20/20 hindsight to a unique situation in which multiple agencies had conflicting information, were trying to determine the safety of hundreds of aircraft, FOUR of which had actually been hijacked. You keep assuming that fighter aircraft are constantly on hot standby at USAF bases nationwide, that they can fly at top speed for an indefinite period, and that they have complete fire authority and omnipotent foreknowledge of the situation.

AA77 vanished from radar over OHIO at 0900 heading southwest. The FAA initially believed it had crashed, partly because the second WTC attack hadn't happened. NEADS believed that AA11 was headed to DC and scrambled fighters from Langley to intercept. Too late, as it turned out, to do anything about AA11 (which had already crashed) or AA77 (which they didn't see coming until too late).

The Otis AFB fighters were an abberation, not because they were so slow to react, but because they were able to react with such astonishing speed. They happened to be on standby, they were airborne in record time, they reached NYC in a snowstorm of misinformation and confusion and were sadly unable to do anything. The fighters at Langley were sent looking for an airplane that no longer existed and knew nothing of the two airplanes that were still a danger. The FAA warned NEADS at 9:34 about AA77, three minutes before it hit. The FAA notified NEADS at 10:15 that UA93 had already crashed.

You have yet to provide any reasonable evidece that the military had anything but scant minutes to react. You have yet to proved any reasonable evidence that there was any malice or true foreknowlege at any level of government.

 

[Shrinker]

Plus, cops and firemen are regular joes like you and I so how'd you think they'd react if they saw something that wasn't a boeing or even if there wasn't anything at all?

Plus, structural engineers and demolition experts are regular joes like you and I so how'd you think they'd react if they saw something that wasn't structural failure or even if there was evidence of demolition charges?

 

[Manny]

Plus, structural engineers and demolition experts are regular joes like you and I so how'd you think they'd react if they saw something that wasn't structural failure or even if there was evidence of demolition charges?

And you've got the thousands and thousands of regular-joe firemen and cops who were at Ground Zero in the days immediately following the terrorist attacks, desparately digging through the rubble hoping beyond hope to find one of their brothers alive and then sifting every bit of debris looking for the tiniest bit of remains to deliver to the families of the deceased. They didn't find one detonator, not one suspicious wire, not one shred of a timer or radio receiver. In that picture of the 45-degree cut column which the Loosers claim is evidence of thermite there is a regular-joe firefighter standing right there and yet he's not out yelling that the columns were cut with thermite.

There's an awful lot of regular joes in on this if it happened, gaggy. How are we to tell whic ones were good regular joes and which were evil globalist faux regular joes?

 

[aggle-rithm]

Most of the debris may have delved into the ground afterall it was travelling at 530 mph when it hit.

Minor point, but according to the flight recorder it was actually travelling at less than 400.

I think the 530 figure was manufactured by the CT's to make it seem improbable that the hijacker could have controlled the flight at that speed and at ground-level air pressure.

 

[aggle-rithm]

There's an awful lot of regular joes in on this if it happened, gaggy. How are we to tell whic ones were good regular joes and which were evil globalist faux regular joes?

Easily explained, CT style!

When the WTC was built, a narcotic compound was mixed in with the concrete (along with the explosives, of course). Once the buildings collapsed, the narcotic floated in the air with the concrete dust, which was inhaled by the firemen and others at the cleanup site. They were thus too high to realize the significance of all the inconsistencies they saw as they performed the cleanup.

It's true!

 

[geggy]

Please provide evidence that anyone in the U.S. government knew that attacks were going to happen on September 11, 2001. Not speculation, not beliefs. Evidence.

Also, I'm sure you're aware that the NORAD exercises had been going on for days before 9/11. They weren't just planned for that day. Have you read my critique of Loose Change?


ETA NORAD info

Oh jeez. Where to begin?

Cooperativeresearch.org (which is, unfortunately, down right now) had made over 400 points with sources as back up proving the white house knew what was coming and did absolutely nothing to beef up security.

Also where was rumsfeld and w. bush, the supposedly commander in chief, on the morning of the attack?

June 2001 The decades-old procedure for a quick response by the nation's air defense was changed. NORAD's military commanders could no longer issue the command to launch fighter jets because approval had to be sought from the civilian Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing7/for_the_record_ashley.pdf

 

[Gravy]

... evil globalist faux regular joe

I had a venti cup of that at Starbucks this morning.

 

[Gravy]

Oh jeez. Where to begin?

Cooperativeresearch.org (which is, unfortunately, down right now) had made over 400 points with sources as back up proving the white house knew what was coming and did absolutely nothing to beef up security.

Also where was rumsfeld and w. bush, the supposedly commander in chief, on the morning of the attack?

June 2001 The decades-old procedure for a quick response by the nation's air defense was changed. NORAD's military commanders could no longer issue the command to launch fighter jets because approval had to be sought from the civilian Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing7/for_the_record_ashley.pdf

Wrong again, geggy. How many days in a row is that? I REALLY suggest that you read my critique. This stuff is all covered there.

Does ANYONE here really need to remind you that no one contacted Donald Rumsfeld before scrambling jets on 9/11?

You are a flaming idiot.

 

[Belz...]

lefty, to understand that 911 was an inside job, you don't need science. You need simple math.

Prior to 911, no steel framed building in history ever 'collapsed' due to fire, yet on 911, not one, not 2 but 3 steel-framed buildings 'collapsed' because of fire, Furhtermore, these buioldings were all located within a few hundred yards of each other. Further still, they all collapsed within 7 hours of each other.

I think what these people need are basic thinking skills.

 

[Belz...]

Like I said before, the real question should be asked is why fighter jets were not deployed at the time of the pentagon crash, especially after the fact NYC was first attacked 45 minutes prior to the pentagon crash.

You mean you HAVEN'T read people's answers on that ?

 

[geggy]

Wrong again, geggy. How many days in a row is that? I REALLY suggest that you read my critique. This stuff is all covered there.

Does ANYONE here really need to remind you that no one contacted Donald Rumsfeld before scrambling jets on 9/11?

You are a flaming idiot.

Ok...I'll make this easier for you...

"We investigated very carefully Mr. Rumsfeld's actions," said Hamilton. "He was having breakfast with Congressional leaders, and they hear a plane has hit the Pentagon, and he runs out."

http://motherjones.com/news/update/2004/07/07_400.html

So he was having a plate of eggs and bakey while America was under attack. If you were first told that NYC had been attacked with planes and you were the man responsible for giving orders to deploy fighter jets, what would you do? Would you either..

1. Continue with your breakfast.
OR
2. Jump out of your seat and rush to the command center.

 

[Gravy]

Minor point, but according to the flight recorder it was actually travelling at less than 400.

I didn't know that. I never looked that closely into how the speeds of the planes were measured, which I why I included a disclaimer about that in my critique. I prefer to think of them all as going "really freaking fast." Now I have to check it out. Man, I wish I was a CTer and could just ignore stuff.

 

[Tirdun]

Ok...I'll make this easier for you...

WHAT ARE YOU BABBLING ON ABOUT?!?

Rumsfeld+bacon=controlled demolition?
Rumsfeld+bacon=government foreknowlege?
Rumsfeld+bacon=government control?
Rumsfeld+bacon=not commercial jets?

Your connect the dots logic is... staggering.

 

[Gravy]

Ok...I'll make this easier for you...

"We investigated very carefully Mr. Rumsfeld's actions," said Hamilton. "He was having breakfast with Congressional leaders, and they hear a plane has hit the Pentagon, and he runs out."

http://motherjones.com/news/update/2004/07/07_400.html

So he was having a plate of eggs and bakey while America was under attack. If you were first told that NYC had been attacked with planes and you were the man responsible for giving orders to deploy fighter jets, what would you do? Would you either..

1. Continue with your breakfast.
OR
2. Jump out of your seat and rush to the command center.

So you're saying that this report is wrong, and that he continued to eat breakfast after being informed of the attacks?

ETA: Oh, and I don't think you read my last post. Rumsfeld wasn't responsible for ordering fighters to scramble on 9/11. Scrambled eggs, maybe, but not fighters.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I didn't know that. I never looked that closely into how the speeds of the planes were measured, which I why I included a disclaimer about that in my critique. I prefer to think of them all as going "really freaking fast." Now I have to check it out. Man, I wish I was a CTer and could just ignore stuff.

One of the saner Loosers stated that the 530mph figure came from the 9/11 inquiry, and was an estimate based on the distance debris from the plane travelled inside the Pentagon.

The flight recorder said it was actually only doing 350mph or something of that order, if I recall correctly.

I'm sure the Loosers will make hay out of this "discrepancy", but the simplest explanation is that whoever did the original estimate was just wrong. It's not as if there was a lot of data about how 757s perform as anti-Pentagon weapons for them to have based their estimate on at the time.

Getting back to what I said previously, it looks like the Dr Adequate thread is still civil and has not been moved by the mods, nor has the poster in question met the banhammer. I take back some of the mean things I said about that forum.