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Loose Change

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manny said:
I think that's why Rox never came back -- he knew people were remembering the list of questions he declined to answer and he couldn't get away with letting the thread progress to the next page.
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My favorite martian was Alek, who, in post #256 stated:
Alek said:
...I am one of the most rational and sane people I know, and my friends and family would vouch for that...
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...and then proceeded toward incoherence at top speed (which says what about his "friends and family"?).
 
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brodski said:
Maybe we could start a 9/11 CT band? You could be on blunt instruments whilst geggy plays the buffoon. The loosers could chime in, in chorus, singing the same old tune and Gravy, Delphi_ote & Chipmunk_stew could sing in a perfect counterpoint to the loosers, making groundbaking use of reason and facts.
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Our first conver song should be Linkin Park's "The Truth." It sounds a lot like the Loosers. It's repetitive, bland, incomprehensible, melodramatic, never stops repeating the word "truth", and rambles a lot of incoherent paranoid crap.
You can't sleep, you're restless
and slightly obsessed with falling too deep
and malfunction, you're a virus
whose intention is ****ing up something (this is the best line of poetry ever written in the English Language)
You're a crater
on the face of a problem much greater
It's the violence, or lack thereof control
Body and soul, digging a hole
Is the blood stainless?
Enjoy the pain with accepting your grief
Are you finished?
Dumb ****ing question, don't let yourself fall asleep
Ressurect the intention
Once your vision is now mass-produced,
Imagine the insults a blessing
imagine accepting the truth

Imagine accepting the truth[x1,672]

The pendulum swinging
Hypnosis has taken control, now you linger
on a shadow of a doubt
Have you really figured what you're all about?
Don't trust your instincts
Just open the chamber where you keep those darkest regrets
All the things you've done wrong
Rebellious at heart all along
Is your leader a voice?
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I'll stop there. It hurts my brain.
 
Well I just got back from New Orleans last night ( had to make sure the bombs were successfully installed in the levee repairs awaiting the next hurricane we have scheduled ;)) and I see this thread is still kicking.

Seems like the same old same old - looser unable to answer a simpole direct question while moving goalposts and ignoring evidence that his "facts" are actually lies, while making up new "facts" at an astounding rate.

Geggy, can you answer the questions people have put to you please? Or are you a liar and a deciever?
 
delphi_ote said:
Our first conver song should be Linkin Park's "The Truth." It sounds a lot like the Loosers. It's repetitive, bland, incomprehensible, melodramatic, never stops repeating the word "truth", and rambles a lot of incoherent paranoid crap.

I'll stop there. It hurts my brain.
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Follow it up with the Dead Milkmen's 'Stuart'

You know what Stuart? I like you. You're not like the other people here
in the trailer park. Oh no, don't get me wrong, they're fine people, good
Americans. But they're content to sit back, maybe watch a little Mork and
Mindy on channel 57. Maybe kick back a cool Coors 16-ouncer. They're
good fine people, Stuart. But they don't know what the queers are doing
to the soil.

You know that Johnny Werzner kid - the kid who delivers papers in the
neighborhood? He's a fine kid. Some of the neighbors say he smokes
crack, but I don't believe it. Anyway, for his 10th birthday, all he
wanted was a burrow owl, just like his old man. "Dad, get me a burrow
owl. I'll never ask for anything else as long as I live". So the guy
breaks down and buys him a burrow owl. Anyway at 10:30 the other night I
go out into my yard and there's the Werzner kid looking up in the tree. I
said, "What are you looking for?" He said, "I'm looking for my burrow
owl." I say, "Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick! Everybody knows that a
burrow owl lives in a hole in the ground! Why the hell do you think they
call it a burrow owl, anyway?!" Now Stuart, do you think a kid like that
is gonna know what the queers are doing to the soil?

I first became aware of this, about 10 years ago, the summer my oldest boy
Bill Jr. died. You know that carnival that comes to town every year?
Well this year it came with a ride called the Mixer. The man said "Keep
your head and arms inside the mixer at all times." But Bill Jr., he was a
daredevil, just like his old man. He was leaning out saying, "Hey
everybody! Look at me, look at me!" POW! He was decapitated. They found
his head over by the snowcone concession. A few days after that, I open
up the mail and there's a pamphlet in there, from Pueblo, Colorado. And
it's addressed to Bill Jr. And it's entitled, "Do you know what the
queers are doing to our soil?"

Now Stuart, if you look at the soil around any large U.S. city with a big
underground homosexual population - Des Moines, Iowa, perfect example.
Look at the soil around Des Moines, Stuart. You can't build on it, you
can't grow anything in it. The government says it's due to poor farming.
But I know what's really going on, Stuart. I know it's the queers.
They're in it with the aliens. They're building landing strips for gay
Martians. I swear to God.

You know what Stuart, I like you. You're not like the other people, here
in the trailer park.
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I mean, if you are going to think about conspiracies, the larger they are, the less likely. If you ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE a conpsiracy, (and there is no real reason that you should) you get a kind of dichotomy. Either the Loose Change videos and related CT material are fabricated, or the much grander network of evidence supporting that the buildings fell because they were struck by planes is false. The second involves greater skill at photomanipulation, the cooperation of every major news company, the cooperation of the entire U.S. government (who, last I knew, could never agree on anything), and vast, innumerable resources. Geggy called it a pyramid, suggesting that there is even hierarchy involved, with one individual at the top. And this has been going on for years, decades, etc... Whereas a Loose Change conspiracy requires far fewer resources and cooperation to create a video expressing a misinformed interpretation of one event, put it on the internet, and generate support. You don't have to fake any media companies because the net has no quality control! You can lie to millions and you don't have to go through a publisher or broadcaster, or anyone else who might object. You don't even need skill at photoshop because most of the theory is conjecture, the inability to find existing evidence, testimony, and ambiguous photos. Don't even bother to photoshop them, just leave them cropped (or don't) and let the CT interpretation sink in! You don't have to fake evidence so it looks like you PROVED something, all you have to do is convince people. All you need is a couple of guys, some video editing software, a computer, and an internet connection.

The larger the conspiracy, the more cooperation required, the more resources and skill that go into it, the more likely it is to fail. You have to do a lot just to make it happen, and all these things have to run smoothly all the time. If you have a small conspiracy, you only need to do a few things that succeed and you are done. You do less, so there is less possibility for error, and the overall process is much shorter and easier.

And look: Terrorists freakin' love the internet. They can spread their cause to the masses with the push of a button, e-mail anyone pdf files on how to make bombs and where to coordinate the next strike, set up websites to take donations. Al Qaeda spreads their beheading propaganda videos all over the place. It's the fastest, cheapest way to reach and influence a global audience, and these people know how it's done. The terrorists fill the niche of the conspirators in the lesser example quite nicely.

Now, that doesn't mean that Al Qaeda has to be solely responsible, it may be another terrorist organization, but they have a motive to attack and undermine the U.S. government. Whereas for the greater conspiracy's motives are "to keep themselves in power," which isn't much of a motive since you can accomplish much without need of a conspiracy. If they're already using the world's resources to do it and taking their sweet time with it, they have very little left of the world to gain from a comparitively enormous expendeture. In fact the damn thing is so nebulous you can't pin down a logical motive. Compare this to the Al Qaeda terrorists, who have actual political concerns, a hell of a lot to gain from undermining the U.S., and see themselves as heavily oppressed by an overwhelming Western dictatorship- the exact viewpoint of the Loose Change Videos and related CT's! (In all seriousness, I see this a coincidence, a side effect of radicalist philosophy, and those CT's are nothing more than a few paranoids and their basement-dwelling beardo followers, but hey, CT's are fun!)

And I ask you, which is more likely and possible: Simple things with complicated effects, or complicated things with complicated effects to create increasingly complex illusions of simple things with complicated effects?

You decide. Postulate plurality at your own risk!
 
This is only my second post, but I've been keeping up with this thread as much as possible.
What I find really laughable about the CTs is the fact that they want all of you to prove their claims didn't happen rather than proving that what they claim did happen.
 
Ben Folds
"Bastard"
Close your eyes close your ears young man
You've seen and heard all an old man can
Spread the facts on the floor like a fan
throw away the ones that make you feel bad

...

So why you gotta act like you know when you don't know?
It's okay if you don't know everything
Why you gotta act like you know when you don't know?
It's okay if you don't know everything
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geggy said:
I'd give you an answer if you give me the video. I'm very interested in seeing it. PM it to me or whatever, it doesn't have to be a full hour. Just 5 minutes for a quick download. Then I could send it to 911myths.com for them to post it on their website. Also I asked you to provide me a link as to what started the fire inside the wtc7 then I will answer you your question so nyah nyah nyah.

heh.

Sure argue with me on my weakest point of sept 11. Post the question again. I may have missed it. I'll try my best to answer it.
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May have missed it? This is the fifth time I've requested your response. The first was on this post.

Since you brought it up, what would say is your strongest argument that supports your hypothesis that the U.S. government is behind the attacks of 9/11?

You were an imaging major or something at RIT, but you can't pull up a common video on the internet? Methinks my little fixéd star of foolishness doth protest too much in order to avoideth the issue!. You accused me of altering my image, but are you now saying that your stills weren't screenshots that you made from video? Then how do you know WHERE they came from and that THEY weren't photoshopped?

sdited to fix grammar
 
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Pangea said:
This is only my second post, but I've been keeping up with this thread as much as possible.
What I find really laughable about the CTs is the fact that they want all of you to prove their claims didn't happen rather than proving that what they claim did happen.
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Welcome :)

The other thing you'll notice is none of their info comes from knowledgeable primary sources (unless they are misquoted, have quotes taken out of context, or bystanders saying stuff like, it sounded like an explosion). All their "evidence" is via video or still pictures.
 
WildCat said:
Well I just got back from New Orleans last night ( had to make sure the bombs were successfully installed in the levee repairs awaiting the next hurricane we have scheduled ;)) and I see this thread is still kicking.

Seems like the same old same old - looser unable to answer a simpole direct question while moving goalposts and ignoring evidence that his "facts" are actually lies, while making up new "facts" at an astounding rate.

Geggy, can you answer the questions people have put to you please? Or are you a liar and a deciever?
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Welcome back, WildCat. Were you there for Jazzfest?
You see that we have a new star here. He's really basking in the limelight. He may seem lunkheaded, but compared to some folks out there he's downright reasonable. I had an encounter today with a guy who claims that my "Loose Change" critique didn't debunk a single point in that video.

Anyway, we saved a plate for you, so dig in before the vittles is cold.
 
DavidJames said:
The other thing you'll notice is none of their info comes from knowledgeable primary sources (unless they are misquoted, have quotes taken out of context, or bystanders saying stuff like, it sounded like an explosion). All their "evidence" is via video or still pictures.
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No primary sources links because according to geg they're not trustworthy, the Media is in on it!:eye-poppi
 
Still here geggy? Man you're a persistant SOB. Why don't you forget all this CT nonsense and take care of your daughter!
 
Pardalis said:
Only that if you take only five frames of the second tower hit you'll get the same effect. With a faster camera we would have seen a plane hit the pentagon.
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Do we have a way of determining the film speed of the security camera?
Can we determine from the visual data the altitude of the aircraft on each frame?
Can anyone hook me up with these same frames on a sight that has not altered them? (the captioning I assume was applied by the hosting site)
 
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