Loose Change - Part IV

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Darth Rotor said:
Someone needs to FOIA the radar tapes (...)Why does this matter? It ties into charges of a cover up.
(...)
I want to know: why is this info being covered up? Or, is there a place where this data is available to the public?
(...)I suspect a lot of this cover up stuff is "people covering their arses for fear of being the scapegoat." But it irks me that the story is only half told.
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Wow, exactly my way of thinking. So, Darth Rotor, does that make you a CT too?
 
DavidJames said:
Recall the school trip Dylan and friends touted...Here is "merc's" big find. Maybe someone here who speaks CT better than I can interpret as I can't figure out what he's trying to say.




from here: /http/s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11352
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I thought they were going down there to blow this thing wide open. Ya' know... figure out that whole "what hit the Pentagon" question that nags them so.

Instead they come back with a story on one of the hijackers (dead/alive/merged identities) that's so convoluted, even the faithful flock are questioning whether it's as big of a deal as Merc says.

Grasping. Straws.
 
Jesus Conspiracy

jhunter1163 said:
From

... When Jones defends the WTC airliner story, he cites soft evidence like videos, "many, many eyewitnesses," unverified flight data recorders, an alleged consensus of Scholars' (capital "S") in favor of airliners and calls for release of evidence (who but the government could object?). Jones says videos "clearly show the commercial jet liner." Doh! You mean the perps would fake a video and NOT show a jet liner? The question is, do the pixels reflect reality or is the jet liner image inserted?

Video is SOFT evidence? Hundreds of eyewitness reports all saying the same thing is soft evidence?

SmacOn, apply directly to the forehead...
SmacOn, apply directly to the forehead...
SmacOn, apply directly to the forehead...
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Jones is the BYU prof, no? My favorite thing to mention about him is the scholarly paper he wrote on Jesus' trip to ancient america.
 
brumsen said:
Wow, exactly my way of thinking. So, Darth Rotor, does that make you a CT too?
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I guess you don't understand what I am talkling about, do you?

There are two problems with information release in any airplane crash.

One is the safety of flight, safety of operations problem: what can we learn from this wind shear crash to help not have more in the future? What can we learn from the "explosives in the cargo hold in Florida" crash that presents safer operations in the future? What can we learn about co pilots not putting the flaps down on take off at DFW to avoid screwing that up in the future? That information is often elicited from participants in "non attribution" mode, which means never for public release, with the explicit purpose of ensureing that, without fear of retribution, any and all human and material factors to a crash are open for investigation for acceptance or rejection as causal factors. The military does this, and this special handling is a matter of public law. It has been upheld by the courts countless times when mis hap investigations have been subpoena'd. JAG investigations, however, are open to FOIA. FAA and NTSB have similar, but not identical, rules governing their Safety investigations, versus their investigations regarding accountability and blame fixing. If FAA can show that American Airlines, or United Airlines, had garbage for security procedures, or had a disaster of a training program, or was negligent in maintenance procedures, those findings may be introduced in a civil case that results in punative damages in the event of a crash.

This leads to the second issue, liability. To avoid being held liable, reveal as little as possible so the lawyers attacking you can't use it.

Follow the Money, as it were, or follow the motivation to preserve money.

There are a complex series of regulation concerining the custody and applicability, ability to subpoena, and the ability to FOIA, an immense amount of detailed information related to airplane mishaps/crashes. Airlines are on the hook for hundreds of millions in liability claims, their insureres are as well, and any evidence that shows negligence or lack of due care not only costs the airline money up front, they may cost all air carriers more in fees in their pursuit of affordable underwriting from insurance carriers.

The government also, to include the FAA, and persons employed by the FAA, have a stake in not getting blamed: jobs can be lost, and suits filed against US gov't for negligence or gross error on the part of air traffic controllers. This hits government in the wallet, and hits cabinet level officers with the prospect of scandal, embarassment, or being canned.

The side cost, in millions, are the sometimes pointless and draconian regulations inflicted on operators that are bandaid fixes to solve simple problems . . . but I digress.

Nearly everyone involved in a mishap, or related to it, tends to go immediately into "cover your ass mode" to ensure they are not scape goated. This is human behavior.

This has nothing to do with planning a mishap on purpose, as is asserted by some of the C**T's, and has everything to do with an incomplete accounting being given.

The government's accounting of 9-11 is incomplete. There is no question about that. This incompleteness is hardly proof of complicity in teh four aircraft that were used as weapons against America, but it is an indication that people were covering up for errors in hopes to avoid being scapegoated in the biggest mess we'd had to date, as of 12 September 2001.

If the raw radar date is available, that jerk at Texas A & M would have to shut his cakehole, as would Dylan Assery, and a whole host of other morons.

DR
 
realitybites said:
I thought they were going down there to blow this thing wide open.
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Breaking news, this may be it...

http/s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11448

I'm back and have some interesting news for you all.

THERE WAS A LARGE PLANE SEEN DIVING TOWARDS THE PENTAGON!
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Of course merc is a CTer, so...
Flyover anyone?
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Darth Rotor said:
This has nothing to do with planning a mishap on purpose, as is asserted by some of the C**T's, and has everything to do with an incomplete accounting being given.

The government's accounting of 9-11 is incomplete. There is no question about that. This incompleteness is hardly proof of complicity in teh four aircraft that were used as weapons against America, but it is an indication that people were covering up for errors in hopes to avoid being scapegoated in the biggest mess we'd had to date, as of 12 September 2001.

If the raw radar date is available, that jerk at Texas A & M would have to shut his cakehole, as would Dylan Assery, and a whole host of other morons.

DR
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Unfortunately it wouldn't. There has been a huge amount of evidence released lately, with the Moussaoui trial and all. They have ignored it completely. Any evidence which contradicts them must be faked.
 
JamesB said:
Unfortunately it wouldn't. There has been a huge amount of evidence released lately, with the Moussaoui trial and all. They have ignored it completely. Any evidence which contradicts them must be faked.
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I agree. They are completely unreasonable people.
These guys only interested in visual and physical evidence. And even that means very little.
Currently they believe there are 26+ faked videos of the impacts and an unfathomable amount of faked photos, testimonies and debris.

They also seem to believe the goverment has TOTAL lockdown upon the NY area, as no one caught the "real" footage on tape or video that shows a vacant spot in place of the "CG" planes.

Honestly I like to leave them alone and watch the in-fighting
 
The whole Waleed Al-Shehri thing is just a pile of crap. The same guy they are talking about, that was interviewed said he didnt have a brother Wail, yet the guy the FBI IDed as Waleed Al-Shehri had a brother Wail, and if you look at their photos, it is clear they are related...

that beyond all the rest of the evidence.

Like the fact that the Moussaoui evidence has him taking a drivers test long after the alleged "alive" Al-Shehri says he had left the US for good.
 
Darth Rotor said:
I guess you don't understand what I am talkling about, do you?
(...)
The government's accounting of 9-11 is incomplete. There is no question about that. This incompleteness is hardly proof of complicity in teh four aircraft that were used as weapons against America, but it is an indication that people were covering up for errors in hopes to avoid being scapegoated in the biggest mess we'd had to date, as of 12 September 2001.

If the raw radar date is available, that jerk at Texas A & M would have to shut his cakehole, as would Dylan Assery, and a whole host of other morons.
DR
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On the contrary. I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm just a bit fed up with being pigeonholed as a CT.
 
C'mon, guys, give brumsen the benefit of the doubt. He and I conversed on the subject of Gordon Ross's "papers" in the WTC collapses, and I ultimately found him to be quite reasonable.

Unlike the real CTs, some people who are "just asking questions" actually listen to the answers. Carry on.
 
Pegelow's Resume

Is posted at 9-11 Blogger.

The structures he engineers are oil rigs:

1979-1993: Conoco, Inc. (Houston)
Company project structural engineer and design engineer on various projects including drilling and production platforms, gaslift injection platforms, living quarters platforms, and many miscellaneous deck extensions, skids, and access platforms. Duties included feasibility studies, reviewing and writing specifications, design calculations, computer input/output, review/checking structural drawings, scope of work, design premises for outside source work, interfacing with other disciplines, and writing various reports.

1977-1979: Brown and Root, Inc. (Houston)
Structural designer of Gulf of Mexico type platforms. Also mud slide resistant platforms. Deck design, jacket tubular, foundation analysis, flotation and launch analysis, lifting and installation analysis.
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That last job will be used against him when he gets into the crosshairs of the no-planers. Brown & Root (now known as Kellogg, Brown & Root) is a subsidiary of Halliburton.
 
chipmunk stew said:
Apparently JREF members "have back connections to paedophile promotion artists and CIA MKUltra torturers"...
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=18937#18937

:confused: WTF???
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I don't know about the CIA MKUltra torturers (or even what they are) but I do know where this pedophilia crap comes from. There has been many people convicted years later of pedophilia based on "recovered memories", which is where a person is put under hypnosis and suddenly starts recalling being molested as a child. Similarly, there have been people convicted based on assisted writing by people who are so mentally retarded they can't write. It's all a load of crap, Randi and many other skeptics and medical professionals have been very critical of these methods used by law enforcement. But this enough for the woos to claim we are protecting child molesters, and of course it's complete nonsense.
 
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