Loose Change - Part III

[Hutch]

Quick note on the Apache (I don't fly them but lets just say I have some knowledge)

The US Army once looked to using Stingers, but decided against it and the Apache is not electronically configured for air-to-air.

The 30MM is for ground effect against light armored vehicles. If you were very close to the target and it was basically not moving relative to you, or only at a difference of 30kts or so (the speed of a tank or armored vehicle) you might concieveably use it as a weapon against a plane, but it was never designed to do that.

A Hellfire missile would be the only other weapon an Apache could use, it is laser-guided, but relative to other missiles it is fairly short-range and slow, it's job is blowing up tanks within 10km--and a jet moving at over 12km a minute would be out of range before the missile could reach it.

Plus an Apache is not the quietest platform; you do notice when they are in the area.

 

[Hutch]

Posted a reply, borrowing liberally from you guys. We'll see if jydolam returns to defend his concept.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8868&st=0&#entry6360883

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

The Apache may not be a quiet platform, but it is dead sexy.

 

[Hutch]

The Apache may not be a quiet platform, but it is dead sexy.

Well, I tend to find women sexy, myself...

But yes, if I am in a tank and know there is a LONGBOW within 10 klicks (especially if it is fairly hilly), I'm either vacating the area or making out my will.

Trouble is that today there is no major Soviet Tank army planning to invade Germany (which is what it was built to fight) and it is being used (by the US and Israel) in ground combat situations that may expose it to more risk than intended. (Damm Commies screwed it up!).

Still, unless protected by a screen of ground-to-air missiles, 16 tanks vs 1 Apache LONGBOW= 16 dead tanks.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Well, I think the reality of a helicopter (max speed 158kt (Apache) 170kt (SuperCobra)) shooting down an airliner (cruise speed 530kt (757) 470kt (767)) is pretty stupid fullstop, but you wouldn't shoot down an airliner with an air-to-air missile.

Korean Airlines flight 007 (a Boeing 747) was shot down by a missle from either a soviet SU-15 Flagon or a Mig-23 Flogger in 1983 when it drifted off course into soviet airspace.

The incident, unsuprisingly, generated a slew of it's own conspiracy theories mostly about the CIA sabotaging civilian airliners navigation equipment so that they would drift into soviet airspace so they could test soviet responses without the political risks of using actual US military aircraft to deliberately violate soviet airspace.

 

[CurtC]

Don't forget over time mobile phones have tended to have smaller output power. Cancer and all that.

Yes, they now have lower output power, but not really because of cancer. It's just not plausible that RF waves could cause cancer - they don't ionize molecules, but they can add a small amount of heat to tissue. If it's heating your head up that you're worried about, holding your hand and the phone next to it conducts a lot more heat than the RF transfers anyway.

The real reason they want to use lower power is for longer battery life.

 

[Brainster]

I was looking for a Quote from Todd beamer's mother, to show her talking about the conversation with her son. anyway I ran across this site. It looks like and motherload of public domain vidio, I have not looked at much but I bet there are things you can use. Happy hunting.

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=flight%2093%20AND%20mediatype%3Amovies

I'll check that out. Just to clarify, Mark Bingham was the one talking to his mother, not Todd Beamer.

 

[Belz...]

Yes, that's a good clip, although the video quality isn't great. It's from the 2002 NOVA program "Why the Towers Fell." There are some decent still photos of that core section out there, but the angle of the video is better. So we've seen VERY tall portions of the cores of both towers standing briefly (several seconds in the case of the north tower) after most of the buildings collapsed around them.

And yet no concrete...

 

[SRW]

I'll check that out. Just to clarify, Mark Bingham was the one talking to his mother, not Todd Beamer.

Yep your right, thats why I should not do research past my bed time.

 

[Joytown]

Why this is important ...

Greetings all -

I'm a long time lurker, first time poster here. I have been reading a lot of these 9/11 threads and have been slowly gathering evidence and information about a lot of the claims that are made by the Truth Movement. Hopefully I can contribute in some small way to keep the honest and open discourse running about this issue.

Up until yesterday I really had been quite happy to read, do research, and not post about my observations. I know several people who beleive the Inside Job 'theory' and have come here to get information to support my own point of view. I feel fortunate that so much hard work and research has been done by the folks here. And this is what prompted my first post, which is, in essence, a "keep up the good work" screed.

An article in yesterday's L.A. Times made me realize what's at stake here. The article was on the new 9-11 movie, World Trade Center that is coming out very soon. The discussion wasn't about the content of the move per se, but more on how it is being marketed. The crux of the article is that 9-11 is a very strong "defining moment" in young peoples' lives.

These very people are the ones who can so easily be swayed by a slick production like LC. It think it's of vital importance to protect the legacy of 9-11 and not let it be hijacked by absurd and unfounded "made up stuff posing as questions"

So .. keep up the good work! and thanks!

You can read the full text of the article here (you'll need to remung the address) :

latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-fi-wtc27jul27,1,5176414.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

But here are a couple of quotes: "... when Paramount Pictures executives first screened director-producer Oliver Stone's upcoming release, "World Trade Center," for a test audience last month, they realized there was nothing typical about selling a movie about 9/11. Teens who were just children when the Twin Towers fell said in a focus group attended by Paramount marketing staffers that the movie strongly resonated with them because the events it portrayed occurred during their lifetimes."

""Every generation has a defining moment," says the voice-over of a 30-second TV spot aimed at the under-25 crowd that began airing this week. The melodic "Fix You" by rock group Coldplay plays as the screen goes black and three words appear in stark white letters: "This Was Ours.""

"According to industry tracking numbers reported Wednesday, as Paramount's media campaign was just getting rolling, 40% of teen girls and women in their 20s who were aware of the movie said they had "definite interest" in seeing it. Teen boys were close behind, with 37% reporting definite interest."

-joytown

 

[Joytown]

Posted a reply, borrowing liberally from you guys. We'll see if jydolam returns to defend his concept.

BTW - note on the "they planted the evidence" line of Truther reasoning (either via a C-130 or CIA on the lawn):

I'm sure you've all the seen the parking lot cam shots here: youtube.com/watch?v=L75Gga92WO8

and here:

youtube.com/watch?v=TAaP4Z3zls8&mode=related&search=

Both these videos continue to run for a considerable time after the impacts. Do you know what we DON'T see? We don't see a plane dropping 757 parts. We don't see CIA spooks running on the lawn to plant shredded AA airframe bits!

And then there's Bob Pugh. digitaljournalist.org/issue0110/pentagon.htm He began filming approximately 15 minutes after impact. None of his videos show nor does his commentary mention any mysterious "evidence planting teams" either!

(demung addresses as needed)

Just my .02!

-joytown

 

[Pardalis]

BTW - note on the "they planted the evidence" line of Truther reasoning (either via a C-130 or CIA on the lawn):

I'm sure you've all the seen the parking lot cam shots here: youtube.com/watch?v=L75Gga92WO8

and here:

youtube.com/watch?v=TAaP4Z3zls8&mode=related&search=

Both these videos continue to run for a considerable time after the impacts. Do you know what we DON'T see? We don't see a plane dropping 757 parts. We don't see CIA spooks running on the lawn to plant shredded AA airframe bits!

And then there's Bob Pugh. digitaljournalist.org/issue0110/pentagon.htm He began filming approximately 15 minutes after impact. None of his videos show nor does his commentary mention any mysterious "evidence planting teams" either!

(demung addresses as needed)

Just my .02!

-joytown

Hi Joytown, welcome!

That's a brilliant observation.

 

[60hzxtl]

Welcome Joytown,

And please put scare quotes around "truth movment", woodja?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Someone remind me who it was that first predicted violence from unbalanced truthers in this insanely mammoth thread?

Whoever it was, call Mr. Randi to pick up your prize.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/01/24/MN115878.DTL

(Shamelessly stolen from Pepik posting over at Conspiracy Smashers blog)

 

[Brainster]

Welcome Joytown,

And please put scare quotes around "truth movment", woodja?

I'm going with 9-11 Denial Movement.

No need for scare quotes.

 

[Pardalis]

Someone remind me who it was that first predicted violence from unbalanced truthers in this insanely mammoth thread?

Whoever it was, call Mr. Randi to pick up your prize.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/01/24/MN115878.DTL

(Shamelessly stolen from Pepik posting over at Conspiracy Smashers blog)

Was it me?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1635501&postcount=3723

 

[MarkyX]

I told you that these nuts are violent angry people.

I would watch yourself on Ground Zero Gravy.

 

[Pardalis]

Of all the conspiracy theories we've heard so far, I still haven't heard "spontaneous combustion" mentionned.

Think about it...

 

[kevin]

Yes, they now have lower output power, but not really because of cancer. It's just not plausible that RF waves could cause cancer - they don't ionize molecules, but they can add a small amount of heat to tissue. If it's heating your head up that you're worried about, holding your hand and the phone next to it conducts a lot more heat than the RF transfers anyway.

yeah whatever, i still don't carry mine in my pants pocket anymore.

 

[MarkyX]

Deleted