Loose Change - Part III

[Belz...]

Now apparently the buildings were too weak to remain standing by themselves for another couple decades.

Since it would cost too much to repair them, they just brought them down instead.

With thermite/ate of course.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8334

Making such accusations makes him liable for slander, doesn't it ?

 

[dubfan]

OMFG SKEPTICS MAKE TEH BIG TIME!!1111

Brainster from Screw Loose Change is on the radio now.

http://www.1510wwbc.com/

Oops, I spoke too soon. Brainster's not on until the 4PM hour (EDT).

 

[60hzxtl]

Oops, I spoke too soon. Brainster's not on until the 4PM hour (EDT).

I think you can now apply for the Randi $1M prize. . .

And this :

"She tracked me down," Avery says with a shrug. Now she's his girlfriend . . .

I would think he's in more trouble for the shrug. . .

 

[Class]

Allow me:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356

Dylan uses his girlfriend as an excuse and avoids calling. More important stuff to do you know,

Like filling out the Errors and Omissions (insurance) policy for his distributor. . .

Anyone know WHERE his girlfriend is refered to, or is it only in the Vanity Fair article?

There are pictures of her on his myspace.

 

[DavidJames]

tee hee hee hee!
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8260

woo hoo hoo hoo!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2640053169768807392

BWAAHAAHAAHAAHAAA!!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-82095917705734983&q=alex+jones+dark




The Alex Jones video is a hoot! (pun intended) If I had the know-how, I'd make a parody of it. If I didn't know better, I'd think it was already a parody.

I finally got to read that LC thread. Yikes! Their meds clearly aren't helping.

 

[PopeTom]

In all the discussions I have seen on 9/11 CT I can not recall ever seeing anyone mention linear thermal expansion.

[latex]
\Delta L = \alpha L_i \Delta T
[/latex]

So, excuse me if this ground has been covered, and if not feel free to check my math, I'm just a guy w/ free time at work

Assuming:

Average NYC September temperature - [latex]20 c[/latex]
WTC Truss - [latex]10.7 m [/latex] long
Temperature on floors where fire burned - [latex]1000 c[/latex]
Linear Expansion Value of steel - [latex]1.24e10^-^5[/latex]

So:

[latex]
\Delta L = 1.24 e 10^-^5 * 10.7 * (1000 -20)
[/latex]

Which works out to:
[latex]
\Delta L = 13 cm (5.11 inches)
[/latex]

Now I am not an engineer by a long shot, and then a couple of short skips, but wouldn't structural supports expanding by 5 inches in the time between initial impact of the planes and the collapse of the towers be a bad thing?

The above is just for the trusses at the ends of the central core, the trusses to the sides of the core were 18.2m long which would have resulted in expansion of 22 cm (8.6 inches).

Does the above seem reasonable, or better correct?

-PopeTom

 

[realitybites]

Whatever you're doing Brainster, keep it up.

You're infuriating the woo.

(Oh... after the interview, there will be a man dressed in a black suit waiting outside by what appears to be a teleportation device. He has your check.)

 

[rwguinn]

In all the discussions I have seen on 9/11 CT I can not recall ever seeing anyone mention linear thermal expansion.

So, excuse me if this ground has been covered, and if not feel free to check my math, I'm just a guy w/ free time at work

Assuming:

Average NYC September temperature -

WTC Truss -

long
Temperature on floors where fire burned -

Linear Expansion Value of steel -

So:

Which works out to:

Now I am not an engineer by a long shot, and then a couple of short skips, but wouldn't structural supports expanding by 5 inches in the time between initial impact of the planes and the collapse of the towers be a bad thing?

The above is just for the trusses at the ends of the central core, the trusses to the sides of the core were 18.2m long which would have resulted in expansion of 22 cm (8.6 inches).

Does the above seem reasonable, or better correct?

-PopeTom

Pretty darn close--I went through that early in LC1 thread; it was discussed a bit, and got lost in the circular argument process the CT bunch goes through (They wait till they think you have forgotten about an argument, then bring it up again, round and round--it's their method of recycling anf brow-beating)

 

[Gravy]

In all the discussions I have seen on 9/11 CT I can not recall ever seeing anyone mention linear thermal expansion.
Does the above seem reasonable, or better correct?

-PopeTom

That's assuming the steel reached a uniform temperature of 1000 c, correct? I don't know that we can make that assumption.

eta: Also, because of the resistance of the core and outer columns, and the weight of the floor and its contents, the expansion results in sagging, which results in pulling the columns, rather than pushing.

 

[The_Fire]

That's assuming the steel reached a uniform temperature of 1000 c, correct? I don't know that we can make that assumption.

I think that was not possible under the given circumstances.
To do that the steel would have to be evenly heated, but in the fire of the WTC the heating process would be uneven, and while the heat of the metal would be seeking out cooler areas of the metal due to conducting, a buckle of the hottest place would be more likely before the rest of the steel would reach 1000 c like that.

 

[Brainster]

Whatever you're doing Brainster, keep it up.

You're infuriating the woo.

(Oh... after the interview, there will be a man dressed in a black suit waiting outside by what appears to be a teleportation device. He has your check.)

Wow, that was terrific! I didn't expect them to give me a full hour. Thanks to all the folks who showed up in the chatroom to offer support. The show will be rebroadcast tonight from 9-11 Eastern here. Unfortunately, none of the Loosers was able to get permission from their mommy to call in.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Post 2426 by Pope Tom

I haven't checked your calculations, but I'll agree thermal expansion would occur. As for the overall expansion: Wouldn't you have to account for the fact that the steel was becoming increasingly plastic, and therefore, bending under the loads?

That would decrease the amount of purely horizontal or vertical expansion in the structural members, at least to my way of thinking. Horizontal members would droop and vertical members might twist and bulge, rather than simply "grow" in one direction or the other.

 

[Gravy]

Wow, that was terrific! I didn't expect them to give me a full hour. Thanks to all the folks who showed up in the chatroom to offer support. The show will be rebroadcast tonight from 9-11 Eastern here. Unfortunately, none of the Loosers was able to get permission from their mommy to call in.

Excellent, excellent job, Brainster. You were, like, you know man, very articulate.

 

[JamesB]

Good job Brainster.

Where do these people learn how to spell? Geez...

ANYBODY WATCH SCRUE LUSE CHANGE? I HAVE......IT IS REDICULOUS...

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356&st=30

Some other amusing comments:

And what a total load of JUNK listening....

SCREW...screwloosechange

Screw Loose Change is laughable.

f*ck Screw Loose Change. It saddens me to see people are too closed minded to accept the truth.

 

[The_Fire]

Good job Brainster.

Where do these people learn how to spell? Geez...



http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356&st=30

Some other amusing comments:

AFAIR, you people in the US pay for your education directly, right? Well, this gives a whole new spin to the danish proverb "Getting a refund of your school money.".....

 

[rwguinn]

That's assuming the steel reached a uniform temperature of 1000 c, correct? I don't know that we can make that assumption.

eta: Also, because of the resistance of the core and outer columns, and the weight of the floor and its contents, the expansion results in sagging, which results in pulling the columns, rather than pushing.

It's not sagging--it's buckling. For a beam, that is a bad thing.
Actually, the uneven heating makes things worse--the beams/collumns bend.
And resistance to elongation causes the stress levels to go up rapidly--to failure. One classic engineering example (usually on a CE201 test) puts a steel I-beam between 2 immovable barriers and heats it up. At what temperature does it fail.
That is an amazingly low temperature....

 

[60hzxtl]

AFAIR, you people in the US pay for your education directly, right? Well, this gives a whole new spin to the danish proverb "Getting a refund of your school money.".....

Actually, you are provided with a free education from the government up to college.

So much for the efficiency of the US gov't as far as pulling off a conspiracy!

 

[PopeTom]

That's assuming the steel reached a uniform temperature of 1000 c, correct? I don't know that we can make that assumption.

eta: Also, because of the resistance of the core and outer columns, and the weight of the floor and its contents, the expansion results in sagging, which results in pulling the columns, rather than pushing.

I agree that the steel almost certainly didn't uniformly reach a temperature of 1000 c. But, like I said, I had not seen the concept of thermal expansion put forth before. But, if one were to take into consideration the expansion of even unevenly heated metal in the conditions of floors damaged by the impacts, along with the weakening of exposed steel by those same fire, plus the weight of the floors above the damage zone, all of which would lead to buckling. Then combine the buckling with the expanded trusses and it seems obvious that the bolts that hold them to the major supporting structures would likely fail. And we all know what comes next.

I am just a layman when it comes to this stuff, but I can at least do math and use the Internet to get my own 'raw data'. Which makes me wonder, if I can figure this stuff out with the help of net resources, of which the JREF boards are one, then how do the CTer just keep going?

Are they bad at math, do they not like to read, does and Internet search that started as a look for facts just end up as browsing for porn?

-PT

 

[PopeTom]

I haven't checked your calculations, but I'll agree thermal expansion would occur. As for the overall expansion: Wouldn't you have to account for the fact that the steel was becoming increasingly plastic, and therefore, bending under the loads?

That would decrease the amount of purely horizontal or vertical expansion in the structural members, at least to my way of thinking. Horizontal members would droop and vertical members might twist and bulge, rather than simply "grow" in one direction or the other.

Part of my thinking was that expansion had to go somewhere and it wasn't going to go through the outer walls or into the core, so it probably contributed to the buckling of the trusses.

-PopeTom

 

[JamesB]

OK, I know it is cruel and pointless to make fun of these people, but this has to be the funniest Loose Change forum post out there. Someone count the number of different ways he spells "flouride". Not to mention, "pattern recognisation" and "that led to the epithany"

just after reading the wiki fluridation link i went to brush my teeth and then i remembered theres flauride in toothpaste becuase i could taste it in my baking soda toothpaste- i quickly spat and washed my mouth out, looked at the toothpaste tube and saw there was 1100 ppm of flauride in it.

i read on the fluride action network only a fraction of this number in drinking water is sufficient to create certain neurological deficiencies and cognitive effects and pattern recognisation problems- i was stressed all day today as i was wondering why sometime i lose my memory in a day- and that led to the epithany.



so is the flauride directly making us more susceptable to propaganda in america- the re doesnt seem to be this huge 9/11 denial in other countries as extensive as in america-

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8039

Update: OK, I guess dubfan was already on that thread. I am always a day late and a dollar short. But it is still funny...