Loose Change - Part II

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What really gets me is, where is the talk of securing a lawyer or what steps they plan on taking to fight this? Instead we hear more conspiracy talk implicating NYPD and FDNY in a cover-up. They only have until Thursday to respond, for chrissake.

Which only illustrates exactly HOW far from reality this people are. If I got a letter like that, the first thing I would say were "Were are my release forms again?" and second: "Where are my lawyers phonenumber?".

Off cause since these jokers never secured release papers in the first place, that would make "Where are my lawyers phonenumber?" first priority.
 
Psychological question here... I wonder how much of this is some kind of wish-fulfillment working itself out. I mean, they want desperately to believe in this big government conspiracy, where they (the CTs) are the guardians of truth and are being "silenced" by the government...

The way things are going, before long they're going to have a whole army of lawyers, the FDNY, NYPD, Port Authority, and who knows who else on their case... And then they're going to REALLY feel validated.
 
Psychological question here... I wonder how much of this is some kind of wish-fulfillment working itself out. I mean, they want desperately to believe in this big government conspiracy, where they (the CTs) are the guardians of truth and are being "silenced" by the government...

The way things are going, before long they're going to have a whole army of lawyers, the FDNY, NYPD, Port Authority, and who knows who else on their case... And then they're going to REALLY feel validated.


But they may well soon regret to have chosen that way to martyrdom instead of more expeditive processes :D
 
But they may well soon regret to have chosen that way to martyrdom instead of more expeditive processes :D

Yes. I see a Buzz Aldrin moment in Dylan Avery's future. Must be my clairvoyance acting up again.
 
See now -- this is what makes my blood boil:

What do the passengers have to do with anything

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5180&view=findpost&p=4887025

It's like Dylan's remark during the Bay Area screening (IIRC) where someone asked about the passengers and he said, "the people are secondary".

The fact that real people really died on 9/11 is just an inconvenient fact, something to be shrugged off as wholly incidental to these morons' self-aggrandizing fantasies.
 
Yes. I see a Buzz Aldrin moment in Dylan Avery's future. Must be my clairvoyance acting up again.

The_Fire said:
If not before, then when the 5 digit fines starts pouring in.....

One of my grandmother's favorite punishment was "lui botter le cul jusqu'à ce que ça sente l'ail" (kick his ***** until it smells of garlic) ... :D
 



Ahhh, man! Who's gonna be my mouthpiece over there. I can only lurk. I need to maintain some plausible deniability.

(Now THAT's a conspiracy!)

My mind is still walloped that they had no idea that you had to pay for footage!

"like, hey, man Dylan" You said that people didn't take you seriously saying you were 'just a kid' but let me add, a stupid one too!

I am standing by for the meltdown! It will be a self fulfilling prophesy - "like hey man, they won't show it because they were told by the secret order not to show it!"

No, because it's bad, really bad. And the music still goes through my head like a nail.

Poor guy, he thought that film making was all limos and sunglasses.
 
I feel like I'm not doing my part--I haven't been banned or suspended yet (one poster over there has privately told me he is gunning for me, but he hasn't got me yet.)

So if there is anything you need communicated...let me know.
 
Anyways, me and Dylan might have proof that the NYPD is covering up a MAJOR incident that took place on 9/11. We need a few more details, but needless to say, the Police transmissions that took place, are then changed by the Transportation authority about what really happened and the NYPD didn't release the Radio transmissions with the rest of them that were ordered to be released earlier this year.

It's an unfolding story, but it shows that maybe even the LOCAL police and FDNY were being pressured to keep certain things under wraps and cover it things up.

So the statement that they FDNY were in on it...maybe be an EXTREME staement because OBVIOUSLY they weren't part of the plan, but after the fact, they may have been told to hide some things.

They should look into REAL conspiracies and see what usually happens.
 
They finally have proof of the conspiracy!! Wow, you must take a look at this:

Whistleblower

spread the word said:
from the The Meria Heller Show-

"This man, Richard Andrew Grove, a whistleblower who worked for the big boys and money people behind 9/11 has come out with information to set the 9/11 movement on fire.

Although many have rejected his work (too busy, big egos, whatever) including the IRS, Treasury Dept and SEC, what he exposes on Marsh & McLellan, AIG, Dyncorp, Spitzer, Stewart Air Force Base, Fitzgerald, Bremer, missing gold and bucks of 9/11, software that predicts the future and more will ASTOUND YOU as it did me. I will be having him live on the show in June, but wanted you to hear this urgent information immediately. That is why I worked on it all day.

If you are a journalist, blogger, etc., DO NOT think this is a ruse. I expect you to LISTEN intently to what this man is presenting and act on it.

If you are a friend, subscriber, past guest, listen and then relisten. Pass it on to every outlet and every email list, group you have. This information is EXPLOSIVE. The more of us that know this information, the greater the chances I won't be killed for presenting it, and the greater the chances for a real revolution in America's thinking processes. Go beyond the explosions, destruction of evidence, etc., and learn who BENEFITTED and HOW on 9/11 to find out who the Corporate Fundamentalists are that were behind it all.

Thank you for trusting me with this one, it's well worth it.
Love,
Meria

"We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore".
"THE MERIA HELLER SHOW"

Ooooh!! Software that predicts the future?! How can you now deny that 9/11 was a conspiracy? I bet they had hoverboards and holodecks and stuff too!

ETA: Wow, that is the best intro to any podcast I've ever heard.
 
Choosing one's enemies, I guess

Serious? When I go there, the entire screen is blank, except for the following text, centered and in white:Clicking on either text block connects to the letter from the lawyers.

ETA that you bastids type too quickly.


ETA more: Now waitaminute here. Wait just a confounded minute. These guys are willing to take on the entire United States government, people whom they beleive are so ruthless that they'll kill 3,000 people in America's busiest commercial center and at the center of the military but they'll cease and desist on the basis of a letter from a bunch of weenie lawyers? What the hell kind of truth-seekers are these guys, anyway?

Back after a weekend of remembering fallen warriors and playing with my family, and I find out that this discussion and debate has gone into 21 innings. YIIIIIIIIIPE :eek:

Anyway, while I'm not too good with the physics equations, lawsuits, copyright action, and defamation issues I can understand. :)

Yes, it's interesting that these folks seem more bent out of shape that a law firm slapped them with paper than the US government supposedly murdering thousands of innocents and forcing or cajoling everyone else to following their dictum. If I was in the LC position, I'd be checking my toothpaste for explosives and my telephone for wiretaps.

But the fact is, the government doesn't particularly care much about "Loose Change" or any of these loose screws. The conspiracy theorists think they and their ideas are the center of the universe, and give themselves an exaggerated sense of self-importance to compensate for their utter unimportance. Yet at the same time, they also know they are not going to be packed off to Lubianka Prison any time soon. If the government attacks, the conspiracy theorist has a number of defenses: he can cry "Free Speech," which brings the ACLU in on his side, with their formidable resources, and he can play himself as the downtrodden activist standing in the face of oppressive government. Furthermore, the government is limited by its own regulations, codes, and the Constitution. For all the rubbish conspiracy theorists spout against the government conspiracy, they know the government is hamstrung by its own laws.

So the theorists not really worried about government reaction and harassment, such as that may be. On the other hand, when a well-heeled law firm, with a real budget, real resources, real knowledge of the legal system, hits them over the head with a real complaint, that gets the conspiracy theorist's attention and reaction. A real law firm with a real lawsuit can shut them down. The conspiracy theorists can't hide behind the First Amendment in a copyright case. They can't hide behind the First Amendment in a defamation case. Or a harassment case.

And these are civil actions, so they can't get the same kind of legal help and public support. Nor can they count on public sympathy. You violated copyright? You defamed some guy? No contributions here.

What's interesting is that their answer is to talk about harassing a legal firm with extra- and illegal measures. If it's exceptionally stupid to send harassing and threatening mail to the President of the United States, it's just as stupid to send such mail to a law firm that is pursuing an action against you. If anything, it wins their case for them. And such behavior breaks a passel of laws. Furthermore, such behavior again cuts off the sympathy...it's one thing to defend somebody for speaking up about 9/11 conspiracies, it's another to defend somebody for threatening a lawyer's life, because he or she is doing the job his firm and clients are paying him to do.

Extremists often regard themselves as being above the law, because of their role as "true believers" and the bringers of great truths. So they engage in the very tactics they accuse their opponents of engaging in. They become what they behold, and try to justify it as doing an evil to achieve a greater good.

Like Hitler and Stalin, unfortunately.
 
I feel like I'm not doing my part--I haven't been banned or suspended yet (one poster over there has privately told me he is gunning for me, but he hasn't got me yet.)

OCMark now shows as "Unregistered". I think they kicked him to the curb. I guess the clown pictures weren't cutting it anymore.

I have no idea what prompted my first ban, which was only for 48 hrs. I think there was a lot of pent-up frustration with the JREF people and they banned 4 of us at once, just out of spite. This time they banned me instantly after that post -- for two weeks! -- probably because of the smileys. You can insult Dylan, take issue with Loose Change...but those freakin smileys are sacred, baby.

So if there is anything you need communicated...let me know.

Actually, if you don't mind... I just want to respond to one person who replied to me directly, and then I'll have to lurk for a couple of weeks. Would you mind posting this:

Sorry chuck -- I'd reply personally, but I've been banned for two weeks. Your questions are addressed in Gravy's Viewer's Guide to Loose Change and at Mike Williams' site, 911myths.com. There is nothing suspicious at all about any of the things you've mentioned, once you know all of the facts.

Cordially,
dubfan

to this post? -- http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5180&view=findpost&p=4887702

Thanks Hutch!
 
Right on!

I overlooked something in this small passage when responding to the forum member in my post #550:

No one should be "guessing" at all.

First off, the default position in this case will be that airplanes collided with two buildings, setting off a chain of events that led to their destruction. Why is it the default? The process corresponded to simple, unextraordinary processes.

Now, it is not enough to just challenge that position in order to negate it, as so many alternate scenario proponents seem to believe. It reminds me of what Arthur Conan Doyle, writing as Sherlock Holmes, said: "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Thing is, nothing that happened on 9/11 was impossible or even extraordinary from a physical or human behavioral standpoint (the latter meaning to indicate acts of war by an enemy group).

Here's what's extraordinary: Countless people -- Americans -- conspired to commit indiscriminate mass-murder on thousands of their fellow citizens, as well as those of numerous other countries. They did this in secret, not only during the planning stages, but the set-up, the execution, and the post-op follow-through. In addition, rather than, say, simply plant and detonate a highly destructive bomb in a highly populated area, these countless planners and technicians took on the task of masking their efforts so as to look like something else entirely (hijacked airplanes, building demolitions, etc.) not only complicating their plans, but in doing so also increasing the risk of their discovery, be it in regard to the human component or the physical crime scene debris. Furthermore, these planners and technicians apparently performed this convoluted operation (which, it should be added would cost an astounding amount of money not only to carry out, but also in expenditures of hush-money to all participants) in a busy metropolitan area in order to further their goals for world domination, as a prelude to Part 2: the correspondingly very simple act of planting evidence of weapons of mass destruction in remote regions of Iraq as a way to prove justification and continued cover for their efforts.

Oh, wait.

Right...the government did a sloppy and heavy-handed job of causing this chaos. It would have been a lot easier to simply just to do what the Japanese did in 1931...they mined a section of rail track in Manchuria, blew it up, showed it to the media, and half an hour later, trains were running on that line....and Japanese troops were taking over the whole country.

THAT was a pretty neat fabrication. So was "Operation Canned Goods" in 1939, where the Germans injected arsenic in a few concentration camp prisoners, dumped them in Polish uniforms around a radio station in the border town of Gleiwitz, while Alfred Naujocks and some SS men entered the station, spouted some anti-Nazi rhetoric in German into the open microphone, fired a few shots into the bodies...and then Goebbels and Hitler announced to the world that the Poles had "invaded" Germany and the counterstroke was in progress.

A lot cheaper than blowing up the WTC, and a little more effective, I might add.
 
So the theorists not really worried about government reaction and harassment, such as that may be. On the other hand, when a well-heeled law firm, with a real budget, real resources, real knowledge of the legal system, hits them over the head with a real complaint, that gets the conspiracy theorist's attention and reaction. A real law firm with a real lawsuit can shut them down. The conspiracy theorists can't hide behind the First Amendment in a copyright case. They can't hide behind the First Amendment in a defamation case. Or a harassment case.

And these are civil actions, so they can't get the same kind of legal help and public support. Nor can they count on public sympathy. You violated copyright? You defamed some guy? No contributions here.

What's interesting is that their answer is to talk about harassing a legal firm with extra- and illegal measures. If it's exceptionally stupid to send harassing and threatening mail to the President of the United States, it's just as stupid to send such mail to a law firm that is pursuing an action against you. If anything, it wins their case for them. And such behavior breaks a passel of laws. Furthermore, such behavior again cuts off the sympathy...it's one thing to defend somebody for speaking up about 9/11 conspiracies, it's another to defend somebody for threatening a lawyer's life, because he or she is doing the job his firm and clients are paying him to do.
Just like I said before, this is promising to become very entertaining viewing.
Hey, pass that beer along willya?
 
Libel trouble

If I'm not mistaken, though, it looks like all the Naudet bros. want is to have their footage removed from Loose Change and the supporting materials (websites, etc.). It doesn't look (right now) like they're going after damages. If Dylan just yanks the Naudet imagery ... he can still keep distributing LC, correct?

This is satisfying but I think it's a short-lived thing. I suspect the Naudets are just appalled that they're associated with this crap and are trying to extricate their work from it. It doesn't appear from the letter that they have any agenda other than that. I'm sure the assets of LTW are not worth trying to go after.

I also think it's just the start of legal troubles for Dylan and possibly others in the "Truth" movement. It baffles me that some of the estates of some of the high-profile people implicated in that film haven't come forward and sued for libel.

ETA: Hmm... just thought about that. Can an estate of someone who's deceased sue for libel? Interesting legal question. I suppose you could say the libel reflects not only on the deceased but on the estate as well.
I think the Naudet brothers care less about the money than about their reputation -- in being presented as supporters of conspiracy theories, and having their work misused for that purpose.

As for the libel case...you cannot libel a dead person. You can defame the dead anyway you want. Their reputations are considered buried with them. The theory of libel law is that it does harm to the living, not the dead.
 
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