Looking for Skeptics

[Vortigern99]

I'd like to know why scrappy is now presenting new claims on flaccon's behalf? Especially since SHE was the one to hear the voices on her cell phone and he couldn't? Surely, if flaccon wants to make that claim, she can do it herself, instead of relying on scrappy to tell the tale secondhand?

Scrappy's involvement here just seems to be confusing the objective of clarifying what claim flaccon might wish to test. Throwing new details into the mix, and second hand at that, doesn't help.

IOW, scrappy, maybe you should desist posting for a time, and let flaccon speak for herself? You're just muddying the waters.

I second this. Mr Roberts/scrappy is not the claimant; Tracey/flaccon is. In the service of testing Tracey's claims (whatever those may be, exactly), I propose we ignore (or at least side-line) Mr Roberts.

Mr Roberts likes to report on events he was not present to witness, and disputes others' rephrasing of claims that he himself never made, but has only got second-hand from Tracey. Tracey sometimes contradicts herself and/or uses vague language that can be interpreted in a variety of ways, and ignores requests for clarification. Special fingers? Some guy shouting in a jail cell for 72 hours? We still have no idea what any of this stuff means, and Roberts certainly isn't going to clarify it because he cannot see or hear inside Tracey's mind.

Roberts's irascible posts are distracting. What say we make an effort to ignore or sideline him in the pursuit of establishing a protocol with Tracey?

 

[Cassidy]

In feb 2013, there were 2 silent recordings made on my laptop. These recordings were to show Rev C what a silent recording sounds like, before Flaccon played him a silent recording on her laptop . We re-played these 2 recordings and there were no sounds at all heard.

In June 2013, Flaccon asked if I would send her a silent recording through via email. I did not understand how to operate Youcam, and so I sent her the 2 recording that were made in Feb.

Flaccon phoned me after she had received the files and asked what on earth had I sent her. I told her I'd sent her the 2 silent files that were made in Feb for Rev C. She played them over the phone to me, I did not recognise the recordings as the same ones. I replayed her the originals over the phone. Both recordings had dramatically altered. The first recording sounds like "Welcome Brother Robin" then there is a loud frequency, a strange voice, and then a beep, this beep altered the frequency in some way.

Flaccon drove to Nottingham and checked this out for herself. Now whenever I make a recording, I hear a voice. This voice and the interference has only been present since June.

I do not manipulate any wires and I have never seen Flaccon manipulate wires.

Recently I spoke with Flaccon via mobile. She became confused and asked me to switch off my satnav. The satnav was not on. Flaccon asked if I could hear any other voices other than hers, I replied no. Flaccon had difficulty in hearing me over the other noises that she claimed were present. I could not hear any interference. Flaccon then recorded, several times the strange noises that were coming from her mobile phone. On play-back it was clear why Flaccon could not hear me, there were other voices present.
I do feel a sense of duty to report "contact" from another plain/dimension/planet/ what ever it is, but like Flaccon, I have no idea where to report it to as yet. I am willing to stand witness for Flaccon if and when she is reported for false claims, as is Mr Bulger and other firm witnesses, including her family members.

I believe Flaccon requires serious help from the Church. She contacted the Church at the spirits requests, all Flaccon asked for was some light shedding. I will soon meet with Flaccons GP, then I shall contact Rev B myself, her Bishop, and my own Bishop.

Flaccon has recently informed me that the spirit said, if these forms of contact are not good enough, they will enter into her television (they politely used the word "invade")

Flaccon used to politely accuse me of pretending to hear the words she hears, but that has never been the case. I do hear the words she hears, and I do hear words without prompts. There are lots of different voices going on, but some are very clear.

Personally I wouldn't have mentioned the recent mobile phone interferences. I'm not sure what it is, maybe a rogue channel. no idea, but voices and a lot of interference is present. I doubt it is worth mentioning mobile phones at all at this point until I can work out why it is happening. You are driving a lorry, its noisy. You say that 2 of your friends don't hear anything like I played to you over the phone. I may just need a mobile phone upgrade but I doubt it.

Thank u for taking the time to write this out. That's exactly how it went.

 

[Vortigern99]

Tracey, will you please copy and paste this into a text editor? Once you have filled it out can you please copy and paste it into a reply? Thanks!

My claim is:



I can test my claim by doing this:



I can rule out paredolia by doing this:



I can rule out hallucinations by doing this:



I know I will have been successful because:

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

I quit.

How long are we going to send each other stupid faulty recordings? It is beyond clear that none of the recordings have anything of value on them. I’ve listened to all of them. None of them say anything about a circus. None of them say anything intelligible at all.

The flaccon1 file does have some speech on it, because it’s a recording of people talking. Compression artifacts are not spirits. Faces in the clouds, or in drops of blood, are not spirits. They are not. Nope. No way.

You are supposedly here to prove the above wrong. So far, I see nothing but nonsense. Ambiguous claims that change with every new post. Witnesses who do nothing but stall the process with petty squabbles as a diversion tactic.

Please understand this once and for all:

Your word and the word of other witnesses are not acceptable evidence.

We need to stop with the bogus sound files. There’s nothing in them. Sure when you play with the wiring, or the sound settings, or when your laptop is defective, you can get compression artifacts. These are not spirits.

Where do you get off making all these crazy claims about what the spirits want, or what they can do, or anything at all?

If you had a recording that clearly said “Tracey’s father and the rest of us spirits don’t belong in a circus, Robin”, you’d still be a test protocol away from making any sort of progress toward proving your claim.

And that’s with a clear recording, which you haven’t come remotely close to possibly almost perhaps sort of have shown anyone here.

As of now, I consider your claims dishonest, your tactics underhanded, your witnesses nowhere near credible, and your cooperation efforts entirely inadequate.


If your ordeal is due to schizophrenia, psychosis, a severe bipolar disorder, or any other legitimate issue, I urge you with all my love to seek help right now. Today. You will be glad you did.

Otherwise, thanks for wasting my time with your lies.

 

[Cassidy]

It's a great question and I'd love to know the answer as well. Are you there, flaccon?

I am indeed online Alderbank, please confirm that you have read and understood #3442 of the real accounts regarding my finding out about scrappy's altered files.

 

[Vortigern99]

Tracey, what did you mean when you wrote in this thread:

Being within, they get through to the electric wires through my fingers. ​

Are you, or were you previously, holding the speaker wires when you listen(ed) to an audio file and hear(d) voices?

 

[Pixel42]

Tracey, will you please copy and paste this into a text editor? Once you have filled it out can you please copy and paste it into a reply?

She's done that.

 

[Donn]

I do hear words without prompts. There are lots of different voices going on, but some are very clear.

Serious question: Can you, flaccon or scrappy, think of a methodical way by which we here following step-by-step can hear these words too?

 

[Vortigern99]

She's done that.

Then please disregard. I haven't seen it.

 

[trustbutverify]

Unless the spirits alter the recordings when different people listen. (I don't know if that's what she means about spirits altering recordings.)?

I thought the OP's entire base of evidence rests on the claim that different listeners were confirming the same messages. Am I wrong?

I can't seem to get a clear answer from the OP, scrappy or any other member of the spiritually advanced club. Maybe you can get more specific information.

 

[Cassidy]

I quit.

How long are we going to send each other stupid faulty recordings? It is beyond clear that none of the recordings have anything of value on them. I’ve listened to all of them. None of them say anything about a circus. None of them say anything intelligible at all.

The flaccon1 file does have some speech on it, because it’s a recording of people talking. Compression artifacts are not spirits. Faces in the clouds, or in drops of blood, are not spirits. They are not. Nope. No way.

You are supposedly here to prove the above wrong. So far, I see nothing but nonsense. Ambiguous claims that change with every new post. Witnesses who do nothing but stall the process with petty squabbles as a diversion tactic.

Please understand this once and for all:

Your word and the word of other witnesses are not acceptable evidence.

We need to stop with the bogus sound files. There’s nothing in them. Sure when you play with the wiring, or the sound settings, or when your laptop is defective, you can get compression artifacts. These are not spirits.

Where do you get off making all these crazy claims about what the spirits want, or what they can do, or anything at all?

If you had a recording that clearly said “Tracey’s father and the rest of us spirits don’t belong in a circus, Robin”, you’d still be a test protocol away from making any sort of progress toward proving your claim.

And that’s with a clear recording, which you haven’t come remotely close to possibly almost perhaps sort of have shown anyone here.

As of now, I consider your claims dishonest, your tactics underhanded, your witnesses nowhere near credible, and your cooperation efforts entirely inadequate.


If your ordeal is due to are schizophrenia, psychosis, a severe bipolar disorder, or any other legitimate issue, I urge you with all my love to seek help right now. Today. You will be glad you did.

Otherwise, thanks for wasting my time with your lies.

Thank u, bipolar? that's a new one Maurice. I have no medical issues nor have I ever needed depressants. I was asked to go find out what the spirits would be willing to do. I'm still unfolding their abilities as they manifest. I personally have no special powers that I am aware of, no psychic ability whatso-ever. I will however continue to claim that I am in contact with my deceased Father.

 

[Biscuit]

Yes they are but if the spirits were coming through your fingers into the wires then they would be able to come through on the silent recordings as well. As they can not it must mean they are in the actual recording or manipulating the software.

I suspect you are jiggling the speaker wires (spirits coming through your fingers) which is causing the playback of distorted artifact compression to be further distorted. As there is "nothing" coming through on the silent recordings you hear nothing when you mess with the wires.

At this point the spirits are choosing the most asinine method of communication I can possibly think of.



What does that mean? Are they in your fingers or in your computer? Could you write out, step by step, your process? Include everything you are doing. Also include how you think the spirits are doing this. Do they work through you or on you? Do they add the voices on their own or through you?

Please note that your claims of past haunting mean nothing in regards to this specific claim. One is not evidence of the other and they have nothing in common.

I asked flaccon about touching the wires on pages 41, 42, and 43 but I don't think there has been answer.

 

[Biscuit]

I don't jiggle any wires about no.

I have no idea how they are doing this, they explain they can manipulate their speech through me to the wires. Just as the can perform art through me. I don't make claims of the past hauntings, I merely state that the unusual parts are documented. I am not trying to use the past as evidence.

post 1720. I stand corrected. She claims she does not touch the wire and never explained the fingers comments.

 

[jsfisher]

scrappy, this was a very good suggestion which was made yesterday. You have not commented so far. What do you think about it? Shall we give it a try?

Thanks, Alderbank. I thought it was a very good suggestion, too, but then it seemed to get buried behind a flood.

Scrappy and flaccon, both. Please take the post to heart. You are trying much too hard to convince us by showing us the things that convinced you. Instead you need to work towards a demonstration that would make mundane explanations unlikely.

Since it got two votes for being a very good suggestion, I will repeat my earlier post yet again:

flaccon,

If you are having trouble making a long post of your full claim, try a sequence of short ones, instead.

When stating your claim or claims, try to leave out as much interpretation as possible. For example, "the spirits alter the file'' is interpretative. The heart of the matter is that the file was altered. So, focus on that: In what observable way was it changed, and what effect did the change have?

Early on, you had the claim the voices you heard in the recordings were clear and distinct. You have since backed off that claim, but as statements of claims go, that one wasn't bad. You have also claimed the spirits can see what you see. Not so good a claim; it focuses on what you interpret is going on, not any sort of observable event.

I think the current claim is something like this: An audio file with no voices discernible by scrappy when first played on his computer when later played back after flaccon listens to a copy of the same file on her computer will match whatever flaccon heard.

Notice I dropped out all the spirits doing things to files and computers. That may well be what is happening, but we need to focus on the observable for now.

Is that what is being claimed? It seems to match what scrappy was saying. If it is, then the obvious follow-on question is does scrappy have to be told what you heard before he can hear it, too?

If the answer is no, then we have the basis for a protocol maybe. If yes, on the other hand, well, you should think about the implications that would have.

 

[Vortigern99]

To be fair, flaccon did respond to my questions. Her response annotated with my comments can be found in the pdf here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9347991&postcount=3385

Okay, I'm copying the text from the PDF file linked in the above-quoted post. (Complicated, isn't it? ) I've removed Tuxcat's comments so we can see exactly what Tracey is claiming.

My claim is: Seriously. I am here to figure out a proper claim.

The spirits claim I have mystic ability (special fingers, a gift from God) I cannot that claim such unusual claim, without knowing fully what it means.

I can test my claim by doing this: I'm really not here to collect prizes or create pathetic woo moments. I can test my claim by finding members who are willing to trust a little, and co operate in the correct manner.

I can rule out paredolia by doing this: Gathering witnesses to the voices belonging to my Father and my sister, and voices of the living, my sister, myself and Mr Bulger's. However, I am informed that nothing rules out paredolia.

I can rule out hallucinations by doing this: Audio or visual? I don't and have never mentioned visual hallucinations, so I assume you mean audio. I can rule this out by searching out the witnesses in the Police dept, who heard a man chant at the top of his voice for 72 hours before breaking free of his cell. I can rule out hallucinations because I have enough evidence, documented and collected over the past 20 years.

I know I will have been successful because: [no response]​

So, unfortunately, nothing much useful here. Apologies for the sidebar, I might have guessed this would lead nowhere.

 

[Vortigern99]

I don't jiggle any wires about no.

I have no idea how they are doing this, they explain they can manipulate their speech through me to the wires. Just as the can perform art through me. I don't make claims of the past hauntings, I merely state that the unusual parts are documented. I am not trying to use the past as evidence.

post 1720. I stand corrected. She claims she does not touch the wire and never explained the fingers comments.

Correction: Tracey wrote that she doesn't "jiggle" the wires; she has never claimed that she doesn't hold or touch them in some way.

Tracey, what did you mean when you wrote in this thread:

Being within, they get through to the electric wires through my fingers.

Are you holding the speaker wires when you listen to an audio file and hear voices?

 

[tuxcat]

So flaccon, are we now able to discuss a protocol? I'll draft a template and see whether it's suitable first of all - then you can add your ideas to it and bounce them around until we all arrive at a protocol we are happy with. Does that sound fair?

 

[laca]

Thank u, bipolar? that's a new one Maurice. I have no medical issues nor have I ever needed depressants. I was asked to go find out what the spirits would be willing to do. I'm still unfolding their abilities as they manifest. I personally have no special powers that I am aware of, no psychic ability whatso-ever. I will however continue to claim that I am in contact with my deceased Father.

First you need to establish that there are spirits. You can't start with the assumption that there are spirits. Do you understand this? It's very important.

 

[tuxcat]

Protocol Template - removed.

We're not ready for a protocol yet and it'll have to be designed around the claim once we figure that out.

 

[abaddon]

Correction: Tracey wrote that she doesn't "jiggle" the wires; she has never claimed that she doesn't hold or touch them in some way.

Good point. She also claimed one had to hold the speakers up to ones ear, IIRC, which implies some form of physical manipulation. Alternatively, since she states she is using a laptop, the speakers likely connect via a 3mm 3 pole jack. These are notorious for developing intermittent faults which can cause all manner of odd effects.

Tracey, what did you mean when you wrote in this thread:

Being within, they get through to the electric wires through my fingers.

Are you holding the speaker wires when you listen to an audio file and hear voices?

Clearly, those would be invisible spirit fingers. (I will split the MDC with you)