Looking for Skeptics

[tsig]

I'm disappointed to find that not only has no progress been made towards an acceptable protocol but we've actually gone backwards, with flaccon essentially admitting that there is no way for her claims to be objectively tested. It might still be worth Alderbank visiting flaccon to listen to her recordings and report back on whether they are as impressive as she claims, but there's clearly no point in her applying for the ASKE or JREF prize.

No one who is not already a believer will ever hear those recordings. What we see here is the typical woo two step. Make outlandish claims, refuse for whatever reason, to prove those claims.

 

[PartSkeptic]

Wow. Hard to stay on the sidelines and just read.... real life drama unfolding. Not that I believe any of the claims. Hopefully safely (to echo some concerns). [Side note: I am an electrical engineer with a research background but you really don't need a professional opinion]

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Wow. Hard to stay on the sidelines and just read.... real life drama unfolding. Not that I believe any of the claims. Hopefully safely (to echo some concerns). [Side note: I am an electrical engineer with a research background but you really don't need a professional opinion]

Research background? That should explain why you have so many woo beliefs.

 

[tsig]

I feel like we have this huge mass of scientific understanding, coupled with an organizational experience with woo-busting at our disposal. And flaccon doesn't see this train bearing down on her.

Even if her beliefs are robust and remain unshaken, there's a human element, a social dimension, to consider. Is it possible for us to be gentle without surrender? Does "nice" just go out the window in service to our principles? And I'll grant that nice has been largely the recipe so far. Does anyone think there won't come a point where nice evaporates?

Because I haven't followed this sort of thing before, I'm curious and interested. But I'm getting ethical twinges. What's the best outcome?

The best thing would be for you to quit participating in this thread, that will ease the twinges.

 

[Alderbank]

I am currently at Flaccons with my nephew, we will update soon.

 

[tsig]

Why not assemble 3 people who have recently had a relative die, and have flaccon supply the first and last name of the deceased, perfectly spelled? If she gets 2 of them right, the test is passed. Assuming, of course, the spirits are not offended at the thought of spelling their Earth-names.

I didn't know people came in kits.

 

[IXP]

deleted to avoid distraction.

IXP

 

[Stray Cat]

I am currently at Flaccons with my nephew, we will update soon.

Good luck Flaccon and Alderbank.... Here's hoping you make some progress.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Good luck Flaccon and Alderbank.... Here's hoping you make some progress.

Maybe it's a trap. She will hypnotize Alderbank with her good looks and he will be the 1001st spirit. Like a bad Ray Bradbury tale.




(I just can't help clowning around at times, sorry.)

 

[Agatha]

Thank you to both flaccon and Alderbank for progressing to a meeting. Whilst I am convinced that what flaccon is hearing is random noise from her laptop amplified through external speakers, which she interprets as words due to pareidolia, it will be interesting to find out what Alderbank and his nephew hear.

 

[wardenclyffe]

I just tried skyping (without luck),

Ward

 

[PartSkeptic]

Research background? That should explain why you have so many woo beliefs.

You should have a look at my professional resume (CV for the Brits)! And what I got paid while in the US. And presentations at national conferences on new technology. But no side-shots while we wait with an..tic....ipa...tion.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

The word will spread, if slowly.

575,000,000 years, at the rate you're going.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I accepted it, and the spirits would have explained why they don't really play games (their words)

I thought they were desperate to get their message out? If I knew I could help billions of people, I'd be prepared to swallow my pride a little.

 

[Biscuit]

So much for the spirits "beating science."

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Another thing that occurs to me is that flaccon may, deliberately or genuinely, misread Alderbank's reaction. The usual story seems to be that those who don't believe in the spirits are afraid of them, or afraid of having their world-view altered. I could easily see Alderbank or someone listening, saying, "Didn't hear anything but random noise, sorry, nothing exciting here," and leaving, and that being reported as "He heard the voices, but he was too afraid to admit it and he left in a hurry." Don't know how one could guard against that.

That's what happened when the priest came round. flaccon didn't say he was pretending or afraid, just asked "is he deaf?"

 

[IXP]

I will post whenever I have anything of interest to report. I hope that will be quite often

I guess nothing interesting yet, after 1 hour.

IXP

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

However, there may be more sophisticated methods to capture the data at the speaker itself, which could lead records that can be more easily analyzed for meaningful information.

I don't really think there would be. You could unwire one end of a cable and parallel that with the input to the drivers in the speaker, but there are problems. As the gain on the speakers is turned right up, the input level into the recording device would almost certainly be much too high and lead to a clipped signal. Maybe a DI box could help, although they only have a -20dB pad, or a desk with attenuators on the preamps, but I wouldn't be confident of getting a good recording. Also, as I assume that the speakers have a crossover, you'd only get certain frequencies, depending on which driver you took a parallel feed from. Taking a feed from the crossover input would undoubtedly involve soldering (which it might with the drivers, too, but not necessarily), but then leaves it open for assertions that the spirits talk on the wires between the crossover and the driver, and that therefore you won't get the voices in the new recording.

To be honest, I'd be doubtful of finding any way of getting a good recording direct from the speakers. The best bet is to use a very good quality microphone and recording device and stick it near the speaker, but that's far from perfect. Better if it could be done in a recording studio with the speakers completely isolated from all other noise. flaccon could listen in to the recording on headphones as it's being recorded and confirm that she can hear the voices.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

It's probably already been mentioned by someone else in the thread, but I've read through most of it, made a few contributions, and I'm now convinced this is quite the impressive troll job (no offense). Contrasting this thread with Robin's is what has me believing that. Robin definitely seems like a true believer to me. Flaccon seems to be enjoying the back-and-forth a little too much.

Playing inaudible clips, claiming they are clear, claiming audio ignorance, and then finally pulling a clip from October 2012 out of thin air and claiming it said "we don't play card games" or whatever, these are all giant clues to me that flaccon is having a little fun.

Have you read her website? Quite a lot of effort for a simple trolling.

That said, I have myself thought it would be really funny if flaccon and Alderbank were actually the same person.

 

[IXP]

I don't really think there would be. You could unwire one end of a cable and parallel that with the input to the drivers in the speaker, but there are problems. As the gain on the speakers is turned right up, the input level into the recording device would almost certainly be much too high and lead to a clipped signal. Maybe a DI box could help, although they only have a -20dB pad, or a desk with attenuators on the preamps, but I wouldn't be confident of getting a good recording. Also, as I assume that the speakers have a crossover, you'd only get certain frequencies, depending on which driver you took a parallel feed from. Taking a feed from the crossover input would undoubtedly involve soldering (which it might with the drivers, too, but not necessarily), but then leaves it open for assertions that the spirits talk on the wires between the crossover and the driver, and that therefore you won't get the voices in the new recording.

To be honest, I'd be doubtful of finding any way of getting a good recording direct from the speakers. The best bet is to use a very good quality microphone and recording device and stick it near the speaker, but that's far from perfect. Better if it could be done in a recording studio with the speakers completely isolated from all other noise. flaccon could listen in to the recording on headphones as it's being recorded and confirm that she can hear the voices.

A simple potentiometer across the speaker connections could easily reduce the level to line level and give a far better recording than trying to mic the speakers.

IXP