Looking for Skeptics

[Recovering Agnostic]

I don't think you'll take this wrong because I believe it's what you're pointing out... but that would just make you another witness. Unless there's some way to actually TEST, then the traditional complaints would apply: You could be a person easily persuaded. Flaccon could be the world's most convincing inspirational speaker. She could slip you some balladonna cookies. There could be something funky with the recordings. etc...

Exactly. This thread's been round in circles over the last week or so, and if there's going to be any chance of getting it back on track with some robust evidence, flaccon needs to provide some basic details:

1. What can the spirits do? (Or what does she think they can do?)
2. What are the spirits willing to do in order to demonstrate this?

Without this simple information, it's all pointless. Of course, there's no guarantee that the spirits won't suddenly get in a huff or mysteriously find that they can't do something or other when push comes to shove, but at least it provides a basis for discussion.

 

[Alderbank]

The file I was listening to was the unmodifed one posted by Stray Cat on soundcloud.

This one:

https://soundcloud.com/#the-psycho-clown/audiotestuprocessed

flaccon claimed to here "evidence" at the same part of the sound clip that I heard "it will do".

IXP

Stray Cat's tracks are cool. I enjoyed them. The spirits' voices, not so much. I played them over and over but try as I might I couldn't pick out any of those words even though I knew what they 'said'.

Does that make me a 'good' witness then or a 'bad' one? I guess it depends on whether flaccon is a serious researcher or a bunny boiler

 

[Cassidy]

As is the case with every paranormal claimer/beliver.

Prizes are irrelevant. My concept of money will not be the same as yours. Wicked game.

I am to forward a claim to ASKE, UK. First I must test the claim that the spirits are asking to me claim. Any prizes are strictly for Charity. This will always be a charitable business once it is placed in correct hands.

To assume that spirits are Psychic, mathematical genius's or magicians, is incorrect. They have full knowledge of understanding life itself. The spirit of my Father is willing to cooperate with explaining such understanding. What is made of their explanation, is yet to be discovered.

I did try the more private route to no avail. The GP is well aware of the situation, and does not believe a medical approach will aid this phenomena. After much thought, if the only way to expose this, in order to receive the attention it requires, is to build a website which may ruffle feathers, then so be it. Although ruffling feathers is most definitely not my intention, as there is not one untruth on the site that I cannot prove.

 

[Mojo]

What is "the great mystery of life"? What words did the spirits use to explain it?

 

[Pixel42]

Unless at least half of each list agree we conclude that we are dealing with straightforward pareidolia and don't waste any more time trying to come up with an objective test protocol which is acceptable to the spirits.

Addition: if flaccon won't even accept Alderbank's offer to try this protocol with him this evening - despite it not requiring her to do anything she has not claimed to be able to do without the slightest difficulty from the moment she started this thread - we conclude that we are dealing with straightforward pareidolia and don't waste any more time trying to come up with an objective test protocol which is acceptable to the spirits.

 

[Cassidy]

Exactly. This thread's been round in circles over the last week or so, and if there's going to be any chance of getting it back on track with some robust evidence, flaccon needs to provide some basic details:

1. What can the spirits do? (Or what does she think they can do?)
2. What are the spirits willing to do in order to demonstrate this?

Without this simple information, it's all pointless. Of course, there's no guarantee that the spirits won't suddenly get in a huff or mysteriously find that they can't do something or other when push comes to shove, but at least it provides a basis for discussion.

I keep explaining what they can do. They can communicate via electric cables, not via being recorded. This means that they can clearly reply within older recordings. My next step will be to hire a private room. Those who are willing to come along to a meet, have nothing to lose. The word will spread, if slowly.

 

[Reno]

The first time was mind-numbing. Stripped of any belief I ever held towards such nonsense. The children we're targeted, subtly but seriously.

After a house move, it became fascinating for 6 years. No one was targeted.(it was a different type of haunting) I would liken the noises to taking a TV up in to the attic and tossing it into the air. The landing TV would produce a loud thud with a sharp crack, or creak. Eliminate the thud sound. If I tossed several TV's from one end to the other, that would be the exact sound, eliminating the thuds.

During these 6 years, we underwent terrible physical problems, and unexplained altered mental states. I did not think at all, that our personal problems, were a direct involvement from the loud spirit. I got the physical attacks, my partner got the mental attacks (twice) and my eldest daughter had her senses interfered with, ie; Sounds greatly amplified, unexplained brightness, and loss of seeing with 3D (ths also happened twice) It was only when a spiritual "protection" came, a loud and disturbing battle took place (Loud ethereal noises) That night, the cracking and creaking were replaced by a more gentle "pottering" sound. It was this "protection, that took me through a series of weird visions, to have me see the answers to our personal and unexplainable suffering.

That's when I first went for outside help, the Church hood.

Edit; This new type of haunting (after a house move and bliss for 7 year) is supposed to be the exciting one, and it is, now I'm more relaxed with it. But the not-so-exciting bit is , who's going to believe it? the more I explain, the more bizarre it sounds, but there are no levels of bizarre-ness. I have great evidence and I should be shouting it from the roof tops, but do you see? my jubilation would be considered an illness, and my careful approach is scoffed at, or feared.

Alderbank. Please note the sections of this post that I have bolded. Taking into account the references to a GP involvement, I advise you do not go to this woman's house alone, or unprepared for a serious unexpected turn of events. I do not want to be reading about you in tomorrow's newspaper.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

This is starting to remind me of Joe Smith more than anything. Only he could see the golden plates. Only he had the key.

By the way, if identifying a face-up card is a magic trick, I’m Lennart Green.

 

[Pup]

To assume that spirits are Psychic, mathematical genius's or magicians, is incorrect. They have full knowledge of understanding life itself. The spirit of my Father is willing to cooperate with explaining such understanding. What is made of their explanation, is yet to be discovered.

So the mathematical problems are out, then.

Lots of people who take drugs or naturally have altered mental states, or who are prone to religious ecstacy, sincerely believe they have something like "full knowledge of understanding life itself." Their explanations are generally as vague, dramatic and untestable as stuff like: we're all just atoms in the brain of god.

It seems like you're trying to keep the knowledge of the spirits in that realm: vague, dramatic and untestable. It's the sort of stuff that could be thought up by any average person like me or, well, you. Again, it circles back to the spirits not having any knowledge that you don't have, with the obvious conclusion that you're imagining what you want to hear in random sounds.

Is there anything contained in this "full knowledge of understanding life itself" that could solve a specific testable problem that scientists are currently working on, like the mathemathical problems, only in a different field? If you don't know what would qualify, I'd expect that the spirits themselves, if they understand life itself, would be aware of something that might qualify.

 

[Pixel42]

I keep explaining what they can do. They can communicate via electric cables, not via being recorded. This means that they can clearly reply within older recordings.

So the procedure I describe in post #1377, which Alderbank has agreed to try with you this evening, would be fine then. You can write down what you hear in the older recordings as you hear it (as with the new recordings) rather than write it down beforehand if you prefer, just in case what you hear when you play it back for Alderbank is not what you heard on previous occasions.

My next step will be to hire a private room.

Why is your next step not to accept Alderbank's offer to demonstrate what you are claiming to him this evening?

 

[Cassidy]

Addition: if flaccon won't even accept Alderbank's offer to try this protocol with him this evening - despite it not requiring her to do anything she has not claimed to be able to do without the slightest difficulty from the moment she started this thread - we conclude that we are dealing with straightforward pareidolia and don't waste any more time trying to come up with an objective test protocol which is acceptable to the spirits.

I accepted it, and the spirits would have explained why they don't really play games (their words) Their message on the subject is clear enough. There is no reason why Alderbank cannot gather the evidence, bring it back to here, and then analyse it. Is this not a fair point?

 

[Pixel42]

Their message on the subject is clear enough. There is no reason why Alderbank cannot gather the evidence, bring it back to here, and then analyse it. Is this not a fair point?

That is precisely what is being proposed. Do you want Alderbank to come this evening and compare what he hears with what you hear or not?

 

[Reno]

It is my opinion that flaccon is a bit too keen for Alderbank (it could have been anyone) to visit her home. This could be innocent enthusiasm to have her spirits introduced to the world. It could also be something completely different. I cannot advise caution strongly enough.

 

[Cassidy]

So the procedure I describe in post #1377, which Alderbank has agreed to try with you this evening, would be fine then. You can write down what you hear in the older recordings as you hear it (as with the new recordings) rather than write it down beforehand if you prefer, just in case what you hear when you play it back for Alderbank is not what you heard on previous occasions.


Why is your next step not to accept Alderbank's offer to demonstrate what you are claiming to him this evening?

This step is this step, my next step is the above. I would love to share this with Alderbank, I am keen, and I really have nothing to hide. Their method of communication obviously does not transfer well. I tested this after sending 2 emails out, one to a stranger and one to a witness. The witness informed me that transference interferes with volume immensely.

 

[Recovering Agnostic]

I keep explaining what they can do. They can communicate via electric cables, not via being recorded. This means that they can clearly reply within older recordings. My next step will be to hire a private room. Those who are willing to come along to a meet, have nothing to lose. The word will spread, if slowly.

You might think you keep explaining what they can do, but apparently, you don't. There's still confusion about what they can see, when they can see it, what they know and how clearly they communicate, just for starters. Even your own claims have been hazy or inconsistent on these points. Without clear, detailed, unambiguous claims, no objective test will be possible.

But more importantly, you (or they) have also been inconsistent on the subject of what they'd be prepared to do. Unless we get answers to these questions, the whole process is going to be far more complicated and frustrating for everyone than it needs to be.

 

[Cassidy]

It is my opinion that flaccon is a bit too keen for Alderbank (it could have been anyone) to visit her home. This could be innocent enthusiasm to have her spirits introduced to the world. It could also be something completely different. I cannot advise caution strongly enough.

O behave, trust is a two-way thing. I live in a row of bungalows, I don't bite, nor am I about to risk myself for anything undeserving.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

This step is this step, my next step is the above. I would love to share this with Alderbank, I am keen, and I really have nothing to hide. Their method of communication obviously does not transfer well. I tested this after sending 2 emails out, one to a stranger and one to a witness. The witness informed me that transference interferes with volume immensely.

Your opinion is not enough as to what happens when handling audio equipment.

What is a witness?
What is a stranger?
How do you e-mail a stranger?
Why would a stranger open files sent by a stranger in an e-mail?
Why is the stranger not a witness?
Why do I bother?

 

[Pixel42]

It is my opinion that flaccon is a bit too keen for Alderbank (it could have been anyone) to visit her home. This could be innocent enthusiasm to have her spirits introduced to the world. It could also be something completely different. I cannot advise caution strongly enough.

I don't think flaccon is dangerous. It probably is worth Alderbank taking someone else with him though, if only because the more people listening and comparing whatever they hear with what flaccon hears the better.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I keep explaining what they can do. They can communicate via electric cables, not via being recorded. This means that they can clearly reply within older recordings.

They might be entirely in your head. Unless they can tell someone something they don't already know, they could just be in people's heads.

My next step will be to hire a private room. Those who are willing to come along to a meet, have nothing to lose. The word will spread, if slowly.

And the word is "pareidolia".

As you already believe in these spirits, I'm not sure if you fully grasp the contrast between just how dull and uninteresting another demonstration of something we presume is just in your head would be and how astounding and earth shattering some simple proof would be.

If you can exclude pareidolia with a simple test, the world will be beating a path to your door. If you can't then you're just another believer in the supernatural who can't prove a thing.

 

[Pixel42]

This step is this step, my next step is the above. I would love to share this with Alderbank, I am keen, and I really have nothing to hide.

So do you want Alderbank (and perhaps a friend) to come round tonight so you can silently play old and/or new recordings to him, indicate whether you think you're hearing the spirits by nodding or shaking your head, and if you are write down what you think you're hearing so that you can afterwards compare it with what Alderbank thinks he's hearing? Yes or no?