Looking for Skeptics

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Alderbank said:
IXP, that sounds a good reason with a purpose. I'll ask to hear that one through her system. Did the one where you heard muffled words have a name or identifier? (I'm sure it is in the thread but the thought of going back through twelve hundred posts makes my head hurt)
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The file I was listening to was the unmodifed one posted by Stray Cat on soundcloud.

This one:

https://soundcloud.com/#the-psycho-clown/audiotestuprocessed

flaccon claimed to here "evidence" at the same part of the sound clip that I heard "it will do".

IXP
 
Pixel42 said:
DowserDon was very unusual (unique in my experience) amongst MDC applicants in not only understanding the need for objective testing but seeing the sense in doing a dry run of his proposed test protocol before pursuing his application. He was, however, completely typical in refusing to accept the result and desperately trying to explain it away.
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Thank you Pixel. I've noticed that dowsers are rarely actual frauds. The ideomotor effect can be extremely convincing. ☻☺☻
 
IXP said:
2. Her report that the one person who did not think there were spirits on the recording accused her of manipulating it.
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If you read the story on her website, then she says that her local priest listened to the recordings and couldn't hear anything on them.

I think it's worth reading her website for context.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
If you read the story on her website, then she says that her local priest listened to the recordings and couldn't hear anything on them.

I think it's worth reading her website for context.
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And the person who accused Flaccon of manipulating the recording was her own sister.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
In the story on your site you mention the visit to your GP. He was initially worried that he wouldn't be able to hear the voices at all over the sound of his secretaries next door, but you assured him it would be fine. Then you made some new recordings, despite the noise.
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When the spirits are trying to communicate with outsiders, they try best to control their speech more. Also, other spirits are excited, and it is noisy. I did just the one recording. A third party was present. The building was silent.

GP was concerned in case the secretaries voices were picked up on record.
 
flaccon said:
Kate cannot make it until gone 8, it's too late. Hoping for tomorrow (will need to check with Kate at 7.30 tonight) I have a person now, reading the protocol, if Kate cannot make it tomorrow, this next person may.
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flacon I am good for tomorrow or Thursday evening.

If your friend wants to check anything on the protocol they can do so on the Forum through you. It does not claim to be perfect but it is designed to protect all sides from allegations of cheating.
 
Pixel42 said:
DowserDon was very unusual (unique in my experience) amongst MDC applicants in not only understanding the need for objective testing but seeing the sense in doing a dry run of his proposed test protocol before pursuing his application. He was, however, completely typical in refusing to accept the result and desperately trying to explain it away.
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DowserDon seemed to understand the point of the various suggestions, whereas flaccon appears not even to see why objective testing is necessary.

As you [Pixel42] note, DowserDon wouldn't accept his inability to dowse as evidence against dowsing, rather than just a consequence of "inadequate" or "unfair" (NOT his words; mine) testing conditions. But that was after the fact, and after understanding and complying with all of the conditions of the test. I remain unconvinced that flaccon really understands the protocol.

Incidentally, I do not see those people who are suggesting conditions and methodology as cruel. If there is cruelty, it will be coming from the nature of reality -- when an objective test fails to confirm flaccon's claim.
 
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Stray Cat said:
And the person who accused Flaccon of manipulating the recording was her own sister.
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It's considered an insult to God. People with money, guidelines, fear, afraid to look the fool, they do back off fast. At least that's what I have noticed so far.
 
Or, perhaps, it is just people who do not hear what you hear.

IXP
 
Pixel42 said:
I know she only gets four attempts but that might be enough to coincidentally get a close enough sounding noise to give the identifier better-than-chance odds of getting the right answer.
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I don't know why she gets four attempts. She has been repeatedly emphatic that the voices are "unmistakenly" clear. If four grabs at the golden ring are required, she has already failed.
 
Stray Cat said:
There are opportunities to "cheat" and to my knowledge Alderbank is not a magician nor experienced in this sort of testing, so it certainly isn't a watertight protocol, but there is a part of me that thinks we may not even need to sweat it trying to corral this herd of cats and come up with a tighter test if the slacker one doesn't show anything that most of us don't already expect.
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I agree.
 
Pixel42 said:
I regret my facetiousness because I used to feel the same, but the fact of the matter is that - based on many years of reading and occasionally contributing to similar threads - it is almost certain that flaccon will go away as utterly convinced of her moral superiority to us and of her access to special knowledge as she arrived. True believers are impervious to reason, and nothing we say will dent her certainty that she is right and we are wrong. It's Black Knight syndrome at its most frustrating. In fact she'll be sorry for us for failing to be convinced by what to her seems so obvious.
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Indeed. flaccon has not only herself to protect but she has also (apparently) convinced a number of others of her abilities so directly facing the evidence would be a major loss of faith. And maybe friendships. She would also have to take down her web site. And, finally, she would have to admit to the huge waste of time she has spent on this.

There is no way either flaccon nor JREFers will come away from this with a whole new outlook on life.
 
flaccon said:
It's not a bet, it's a Charity thing. It's really not irrelevant. Spirit voices are real, it is earth shattering, all prizes to Charity.

The only way to prove it is take a look, it is that simple. All that can come from this is a big positive for the common people...
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Have you ever proven these spirit voices to anyone's satisfaction? If so, tell us something about them. They don't appear to be your clergy or physician.
 
Orphia Nay said:
Indeed!

Chapter 3 of the Da Vinci Code is about Sophie discovering a key belonging to her grandfather which has a fleur de lys on it and the initials P.S which stand for Princess Sophie / Priory of Sion.
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flaccon said:
I wouldn't really know about chapter 3.
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I made a typo. I described Chapter 23. Are you pretending you don't recognize Chapter 23?
 
Alderbank said:
flacon I am good for tomorrow or Thursday evening.

If your friend wants to check anything on the protocol they can do so on the Forum through you. It does not claim to be perfect but it is designed to protect all sides from allegations of cheating.
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The friend has read the protocol on his own computer.

I'm afraid my daughter wants no part in watching her Grandfather perform card tricks to prove his presence is genuine. She felt as sick as I felt when it was initially suggested.

I am begining to wonder what constitutes as a fair and respectful protocol to test a spirits presence, rather than using part-method of a protocol that has been constructed to test potential Psychic ability.

There was a clear message in his own voice last night, on a recording dated 18th Oct 2012 "We don't want cards tricks"

I imagine that if one asks the spirit questions, and plays an old recording, the spirit will clearly reply within that recording. I don't know where to go with this one. Has there ever been a protocol written up for this type of supernatural behaviour? If not, could we possibly think of putting one together? If not, my offer will still stand.

Should any member wish to report the site, please understand this, just because this type of communication has never happened before, doesn't mean to say it never will. The spirits are not desperate for themselves, I'm sure they have all the time in the world. They're mainly desperate to let the people know how life operates correctly.
 
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flaccon said:
The friend has read the protocol on his own computer.

I'm afraid my daughter wants no part in watching her Grandfather perform card tricks to prove his presence is genuine. She felt as sick as I felt when it was initially suggested.

I am begining to wonder what constitutes as a fair and respectful protocol to test a spirits presence, rather than using part-method of a protocol that has been constructed to test potential Psychic ability.

There was a clear message in his own voice last night, on a recording dated 18th Oct 2012 "We don't want cards tricks"

I imagine that if one asks the spirit questions, and plays an old recording, the spirit will clearly reply within that recording. I don't know where to go with this one. Has there ever been a protocol written up for this type of supernatural behaviour? If not, could we possibly think of putting one together? If not, my offer will still stand.

Should any member wish to report the site, please understand this, just because this type of communication has never happened before, doesn't mean to say it never will. The spirits are not desperate for themselves, I'm sure they have all the time in the world. They're mainly desperate to let the people know how life operates correctly.
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Hi Flaccon,

When this ordeal is over, if you still have fraudulent claims on your business site, I can assure you I will personally report it. It is you who have to prove the claims you make. And it doesn't look like you can...
 
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