Looking for Skeptics

[Biscuit]

It's the right sort of idea in that there's no way that anyone could obtain this information except via the paranormal (other than a very lucky guess), but there's no reason to think that spirits can see the future even if they do exist, so there's an obvious excuse if they fail.

There's a good reason why the sort of test where the odds of chance success can be calculated in advance, and success criteria significantly greater than that agreed, is usually preferred. It's simple, and the results speak for themselves.

I agree. A correct guess at a 10K time would be sort of interesting but we can't control the communication between the parties and we can't really verify the claim that someone ran the race let alone what their time was.

For now the the most interesting thing would be for more unlabeled stains and unlabeled audio.

 

[Cassidy]

flaccon, not to pile on with this point, but you still seem not to understand that pareidolia is not something you are diagnosed with, or suffer the after-effects of. It is simply a part of the way that all of experience our universe. It is the way we fill in words in garbled speech, or see pictures in clouds. It is not a diagnosis, and it doesn't mean you have a mental illness.

Look at this snipped quote of yours:


If I'm reading that correctly, it appears that you were sitting in front of the computer trying to come up with a username and saw a smear on the screen. Your mind, like all our minds, turned a smear into a word, which you decided to utilize as a name. That is a perfect example of pareidolia. There is nothing unusual or supernatural about it. You saw a smear, which looked a bit like writing, and you converted it into a name.

We do the same thing with sounds as we do with sight. Birds can be named after the sound they make. Here in the US we have a bird called the Bob White. It was named after the sound of its call. Here's an example 8-second mark):


That bird is not saying "Bob White" but that's what it sounds like to an English-speaking human, esp once you've been told that's what it sounds like. So that's what the bird is called. That's auditory pareidolia. We all experience it, and it's not anyone trying to insist that you have a diagnosed medical condition.

I'm not left with much to say, I've said about as much as possible. Nothing so far, has accounted as an explanation for the voice of my Father, other than for what it is, his spirit.

 

[Pup]

flaccon, not to pile on with this point, but you still seem not to understand that pareidolia is not something you are diagnosed with, or suffer the after-effects of. It is simply a part of the way that all of experience our universe. It is the way we fill in words in garbled speech, or see pictures in clouds. It is not a diagnosis, and it doesn't mean you have a mental illness.

This is true. It's like optical illusions, such as lines appearing to be different lengths, even though they're the same. Most people "see" the illusion, though it varies among cultures.

Like pareidolia, there are two "truths" involved, each backed by different kinds of evidence. We can estimate the length of the lines by comparing them to each other by eye, or we can use a ruler to measure the length, and each yields a different answer.

Measuring the length doesn't stop the optical illusion (at least it doesn't for me--I still see the lines as different lengths if I take the ruler away), but like most people, I trust the evidence of the ruler instead of the estimate by eye.

Imagine a person who refused to believe the ruler measurement, and insisted that because the lines looked to be different lengths, they actually were different lengths, and came up with explanations for why that was so. Perhaps the computer screen could sense when a ruler was near and changed the lines so they'd be the same length for that moment. Perhaps every ruler in the house had been secretly replaced by special ones that read wrong.

The explanations would sound ridiculous to most people, who would be mildly surprised their eyes had been fooled but would have no emotional investment in the length of the lines and would immediately accept the ruler measurement as the true one, based on the best evidence.

Pareidolia is like the optical illusion that most people see. An objective test, such as the one for the Million Dollar Challenge, would be like laying a ruler along the lines. If the test fails to show that the voices are anything more than the effects of pareidolia, that's where the conclusions of skeptics and believers would diverge. Believers would have so much emotionally invested in the perception caused by pareidolia, they'd search for any other explanation. Skeptics would accept that there was now stronger evidence the voices were "real," and proceed from there, with further tests to confirm it and new hypothesis about what's happening.

Right now, though, skeptics aren't predicting that conclusion, because it would be like someone showing two lines that seem to be different lengths and claiming there was no illusion this time. Every other time it's been investigated, it's turned out to be an optical illusion, so there's no reason to predict the results will be different when we lay the ruler down this time.

You've been blaming people's skepticism about the voices on fear, but I think the fear is stronger the other way. The potential of having to abandon a belief that's emotionally important is frightening.

 

[Cassidy]

I agree. A correct guess at a 10K time would be sort of interesting but we can't control the communication between the parties and we can't really verify the claim that someone ran the race let alone what their time was.

For now the the most interesting thing would be for more unlabeled stains and unlabeled audio.

Unlabelled stains, yes I have the 4th one not displayed yet.
Regarding any ability to see into the future, I doubt is possible, but they do say that they can create future.

There is little point in me explaining in bits, of their information. To arrive at some real understanding, one has to be firmly convinced that a spirit exists, and only through solid evidence, can one begin to understand the rest.

I am far too apprehensive now, to post recordings to strangers here, because this is where it would become personal for me, it is the voice of my Father floating about the internet, it's not a comfortable feeling. I have taken no offence to certain ridicule, accusation and sarcasm here, it's been expected. I've learned a lot here in just a few days. Links, suggestions, idea's, it's been a pleasure to acknowledge.

 

[Patchwork Moth]

Hi Flaccon may I ask what you are hoping to achieve? Are you looking for answers about the voices or are you seeking validation? Maybe what you are wanting is for others to have a 'Wow' moment. I'm fairly certain it isn't the first which leads me to wonder why you are asking sceptics.

 

[Cassidy]

This is true. It's like optical illusions, such as lines appearing to be different lengths, even though they're the same. Most people "see" the illusion, though it varies among cultures.

Like pareidolia, there are two "truths" involved, each backed by different kinds of evidence. We can estimate the length of the lines by comparing them to each other by eye, or we can use a ruler to measure the length, and each yields a different answer.

Measuring the length doesn't stop the optical illusion (at least it doesn't for me--I still see the lines as different lengths if I take the ruler away), but like most people, I trust the evidence of the ruler instead of the estimate by eye.

Imagine a person who refused to believe the ruler measurement, and insisted that because the lines looked to be different lengths, they actually were different lengths, and came up with explanations for why that was so. Perhaps the computer screen could sense when a ruler was near and changed the lines so they'd be the same length for that moment. Perhaps every ruler in the house had been secretly replaced by special ones that read wrong.

The explanations would sound ridiculous to most people, who would be mildly surprised their eyes had been fooled but would have no emotional investment in the length of the lines and would immediately accept the ruler measurement as the true one, based on the best evidence.

Pareidolia is like the optical illusion that most people see. An objective test, such as the one for the Million Dollar Challenge, would be like laying a ruler along the lines. If the test fails to show that the voices are anything more than the effects of pareidolia, that's where the conclusions of skeptics and believers would diverge. Believers would have so much emotionally invested in the perception caused by pareidolia, they'd search for any other explanation. Skeptics would accept that there was now stronger evidence the voices were "real," and proceed from there, with further tests to confirm it and new hypothesis about what's happening.

Right now, though, skeptics aren't predicting that conclusion, because it would be like someone showing two lines that seem to be different lengths and claiming there was no illusion this time. Every other time it's been investigated, it's turned out to be an optical illusion, so there's no reason to predict the results will be different when we lay the ruler down this time.

You've been blaming people's skepticism about the voices on fear, but I think the fear is stronger the other way. The potential of having to abandon a belief that's emotionally important is frightening.

Yes I understand, Paredolia is not something "suffered" I imagine the suffering to be, when one cannot accept Paredolia as the only answer. Therefore it becoming a mental state, in this case, "Severely Delusioned"

Every witness so far, with hands-on approach, clarifies my conclusion, that it is without doubt "communication" from the spirit-world. Of course, "every witness" has no training in this particular field, and can only watch on, as I take it a step further. The most important witnesses are, immediate family member's, who can without doubt recognise their Father's voice, and a Mr Bulger, who is alive and well (thankfully) who can confirm his very own voice, calling out amongst the entanglement of speech.

 

[Cassidy]

Hi Flaccon may I ask what you are hoping to achieve? Are you looking for answers about the voices or are you seeking validation? Maybe what you are wanting is for others to have a 'Wow' moment. I'm fairly certain it isn't the first which leads me to wonder why you are asking sceptics.

I'll be looking for confirmation yes, investigation is very worthy.



Asking sceptic's is a bit like disappearing for 20 years and bringing home the bacon, and we might not like the taste of it yet, but one day we are really going to enjoy it (That is just my opinion)

 

[Pixel42]

Every witness so far, with hands-on approach, clarifies my conclusion, that it is without doubt "communication" from the spirit-world. Of course, "every witness" has no training in this particular field, and can only watch on, as I take it a step further. The most important witnesses are, immediate family member's, who can without doubt recognise their Father's voice, and a Mr Bulger, who is alive and well (thankfully) who can confirm his very own voice, calling out amongst the entanglement of speech.

I understand your frustration, but you must understand ours. If what you say is true then you have in your possession evidence of something very exciting - earth shattering, in fact. But so far you have not only refused to share it with us, but also refused to do the simplest of objective tests to eliminate the possibility that you and your witnesses are inadvertently fooling yourselves. What would you think, if our positions were reversed?

 

[bluesjnr]

...snip..I am far too apprehensive now, to post recordings to strangers here, because this is where it would become personal for me,...snip...

And so it begins....the inevitable back-pedaling.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

I'll be looking for confirmation yes, investigation is very worthy.



Asking sceptic's is a bit like disappearing for 20 years and bringing home the bacon, and we might not like the taste of it yet, but one day we are really going to enjoy it (That is just my opinion)

This makes absolutely no sense. And you are apparently not listening to the skeptics. Did you really think anyone was going to say "oh, but she can clearly hear her father's voice! It has to be spirits"?

If you want to win a skeptic prize, you'll have to communicate effectively and build a protocol that can demonstrate your claim unambiguously. There is no other way.

And you should really delete the fraudulent claims from your website. Otherwise you're just another Sylvia with a poorly written website.

 

[Alderbank]

A correct guess at a 10K time would be sort of interesting but we can't control the communication between the parties and we can't really verify the claim that someone ran the race let alone what their time was.

Within hours of the end of the run (and all similar events in the UK) the results are published online by an independent sports timing company. If I post my bib number in advance anyone can verify the time. This was my reasoning. However I see now that I could cheat simply by lying about my bib number so a bad idea.

Wisely, Flaccon completely ignored it

 

[Cassidy]

Yes I reckon they can. Before making this offer on the Forum, Flaccon PMd me to ask for information about me and I volunteered enough for the spirits to Google me quite easily.

Flaccon has invited me to phone her landline number and listen to a recording. I think I will pass on that one because what I hear would be of no interest to other thread viewers. Instead I urge you to do what Stray Cat and Squeegee suggest and post a high quality recording where others can listen as well.

I am fascinated by this project and I am ready to attend whenever you wish for the next stage. You mention Sundays – I can be there next Sunday afternoon and any other Sunday you choose.

On Sunday morning I will take part in the annual Mersey Tunnel 10K in Liverpool. I am pleased that the spirits are watching me. I don’t need them to tell me my name - I know that already - but I would be impressed if they would give my time in advance for this run. It would not be proof of anything of course but it is an easy way for them to show us their sincerity and would get this project off to a great start. Don’t tell me my time Flaccon– perhaps you could PM Pixel42 if that is OK ?

What does everyone think?

The problem with this is, they cannot see the future. It's likely that they do not use search engines. They hear bits & pieces, and lipread the rest. The can't read our thoughts either, I tested that one. The great news is, it doesn't need to be a Sunday. If it appears fair, that I do this alone with no witness to witness our meet, the day is entirely your choice. I can of course, travel to you, where there is no internet access. Or maybe we could do both places, to rule out any possible set-up here? Let me know what you think.

 

[AdMan]

Within hours of the end of the run (and all similar events in the UK) the results are published online by an independent sports timing company. If I post my bib number in advance anyone can verify the time. This was my reasoning. However I see now that I could cheat simply by lying about my bib number so a bad idea.

Wisely, Flaccon completely ignored it

Not quite:

Regarding any ability to see into the future, I doubt is possible, but they do say that they can create future.

What the latter means, I'm not quite sure, but maybe she can ask the spirits to have you win the race.

 

[Cassidy]

Within hours of the end of the run (and all similar events in the UK) the results are published online by an independent sports timing company. If I post my bib number in advance anyone can verify the time. This was my reasoning. However I see now that I could cheat simply by lying about my bib number so a bad idea.

Wisely, Flaccon completely ignored it

Amen.

 

[Alderbank]

Flaccon, have you thought about what you would like to do when we meet up? Adman gave you some good ideas in post #42 as did Pixel in post #48. I note you have not commented on any of these yet.

I can bring along cards and envelopes or anything else you ask for.

If you would like to change any of their protocols at all, this is the ideal forum to discuss it

 

[Professor Yaffle]

A great example of paraedolia I just saw on facebook (sorry to non facebook users if you can't see it).

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0674061.138147.526563767370019&type=1&theater

 

[Stray Cat]

There is little point in me explaining in bits, of their information. To arrive at some real understanding, one has to be firmly convinced that a spirit exists, and only through solid evidence, can one begin to understand the rest.

But you keep refusing to do anything about providing the "solid evidence" you keep claiming to have.

I am far too apprehensive now, to post recordings to strangers here, because this is where it would become personal for me, it is the voice of my Father floating about the internet, it's not a comfortable feeling.

But you claim that these spirits want to be heard.
This looks more and more like another excuse as to why you can't provide the "solid evidence" you claim to have... Apparently it was a game of Scrabble the other night that prevented you from getting the spirits message out to people who are offering to help.

I have taken no offence to certain ridicule, accusation and sarcasm here, it's been expected...

I'm pleased that you haven't taken any offence, I too haven't taken offence at your apparent insincere statement that you could and would send people the files containing the "solid evidence" and then finding excuses as to why you can't/wont do it.
You appear to be putting more effort into not providing the evidence while the helpful sceptics are making extreme effort to help you to verify your claims.

 

[SusanB-M1]

I am reading with interest. What comes next, I wonder....

 

[Cassidy]

This makes absolutely no sense. And you are apparently not listening to the skeptics. Did you really think anyone was going to say "oh, but she can clearly hear her father's voice! It has to be spirits"?

If you want to win a skeptic prize, you'll have to communicate effectively and build a protocol that can demonstrate your claim unambiguously. There is no other way.

And you should really delete the fraudulent claims from your website. Otherwise you're just another Sylvia with a poorly written website.

Maybe that was not clear? I held the sceptic belief, until I was 30. I was the type of sceptic that had no interest in the slightest. One thing's for certain, had the internet existed in those days, I certainly wouldn't have joined a sceptic group. If I'd of had any strong opinion in those days, it would have been to create a group, to stop the Psychic's and the Sylvia's, legally. Anything morally incorrect, should be illegal by law.

I do not care for prizes, or gold star's, I only care for seeking the truth.

 

[truethat]

Wow I can't imagine how disappointing it must be for someone to be so convinced they are on to something only to find out it's a simple case of pareidolia.

Here's a hint though for the future. If you need to draw lines and circle things so that people will be able to "See" what you see then it's really based on interpretation.

Another clue is asking people to "squint" when they look at it. If they need to do that it's not what you think it is.

This is wow. So weird.

ETA Holy crap, you are over 30 and you've never heard of pareidolia before? And you say you were a sceptic?