Looking for Skeptics

[bluesjnr]

Would you care to share the contents of the letter you received from your GP (I understand if you don't)?

How about uploading a couple of the audio clips to your site to allow independent assessment?

 

[wardenclyffe]

I don't see why not flying has anything to do with anything.
You are aware of ASKE and they are part of the organisation that offers the one million Euros prize. The prelim test is in the UK so no flying involved and they would no doubt love to examine the possibility that you are indeed experiencing some paranormal event. If you pass the prelim test, they give you £400 and that would be enough to get you on a ferry to Belgium for the main test.
So far in this thread and from your website, you have not managed to show anything paranormal, nor communicate clearly what you perceive to be paranormal about the things you see and hear.

Until you do, no one can help you to design a test to test it.

This is very exciting news. I can't believe I'm just hearing about it now. Based on current exchange rates. This prize is now the biggest one available and Randi's prize falls to second place.

Thanks for the info,

Ward

 

[Cassidy]

I'm sorry, but so far you're not addressing--let alone accepting--any kind of rational explanation as a possible explanation.

You're coming across like a full-blown woo believer, unwilling to seriously challenge your beliefs from a skeptical point of view.

I predict you won't last very long in this forum.

Adman, I studied everything that was said last night. It's not possible to just accept an explanation from anyone who cannot give me hands-on. I didn't join the site for a medical examination, I have had myself medically checked out. I don't mind removing myself from the site, upsetting people is not my intention, but I don't feel comfortable with people's accusation, I hav listened, I am googling, and I am open to plausible answers, but won'tbe setting it in stone. My Father's voice has been identified by 3 members of the family so far. It's been a pleasure reading input, so thank u for that, but please don't think you or any other member has wasted their time.. quite an eye-opener.

 

[wardenclyffe]

Thank u, yes cooperative, and yes they are asking for "loudspeaker" April wasn't found no. It was just a sad & desperate thought at the time. I'm really not here to challenge Randi, I don't fly, although that sort of prize money would seriously benefit their cause.

Very sad about April. Did the spirits offer any information about her when you initially contacted them about her?

Ward

 

[Pixel42]

You have not been accused of anything. You have not upset anyone. You have been politely given the most likely explanation of your experiences. We can't make you consider that explanation or do a proper test to eliminate it, but until and unless you do then you are just another person making unsubstantiated claims and then running away when asked to support them.

 

[bluesjnr]

...snip... I am open to plausible answers...snip

Are you sure about that flaccon ? I ask only because you've been given perfectly plausible answers for the phenomenon and don't seem willing to consider them.

 

[Stray Cat]

I haven't dismissed anything.

Yes you have. Maybe not in your own mind but certainly you haven't addressed many valid points made in this thread.
For instance, the explanation offered for you seeing patterns in blurry images is most likely Pareidolia.
You have not explained why you seeing patterns in blurry images is any different from Pareidolia. If you can not suggest a reason why what you are doing is not the well known and very common ability of humans to see patterns where there aren't patterns, or suggest some differentiating characteristic of your patterns from any other patterns, then you will have no success convincing anyone in the scientific or sceptical community to support and help you in deluding yourself any further.

This is an essential point pivotal to enlisting the help of sceptics and apart from giving us a vague nod that you know about Pareidolia, you have ignored the very point that it was offered as a most likely explanation.

I value in-put.

I value gold, but I don't own any.

I asked for skeptics so I can observe their reaction, gather their information, and check a few pointers, so I know what we are to expect.

What you should "expect" is to have some rigorous questioning from people genuinely wanting to know exactly what you think is happening and why you dont think the explanations offered cover what you are claiming. This questioning and explaining should be done in as clear and cohesive (as possible) manner so that neither sceptics nor yourself get confused at what is being said. Sometimes this calls for straightforward language which can lead some people to think they are on the receiving end of unfriendliness, but it's really not. It's just people trying to get cold hard fact and filter out the subjective bias of the claimant.

I don't feel I've rambled have I? If I have, it has been a very enlightening ramble. I don't mind removing myself from this thread if you feel it worthless,

I'm not suggesting you remove yourself from the thread. I'm suggesting that you explain clearly and exactly what it is that you are experiencing and how you know what you are experiencing is not simply Pareidolia.
If we can pin this down, we can help you to design a test that will either provide evidence for your claim or show your claim is false. If you don't or cant do this, people will take you less and less seriously.

I've gathered "reaction" "information" enough to add another page to the book (after my homework last night) Thanks for your input.

We're really not too bothered about your "book" or your "homework" or indeed in knowing that you've "gathered reaction" or "information. That is you just rambling instead of expanding on your claims of seeing pictures in blurry images and hearing voices in electronic recordings etc. and discussing ways to put your claims to the test.

 

[Shiner]

This says it all to me.

http://www.chapter23.org/Demonstration.html

Demonstration includes

*Valuable information*
*Spiritual Guidance/Cleansing/Healing*
*Guaranteed Contact Every time ** Messages from loved ones *
* Explanations of great mysteries *
* Demonstrations *
* Revealing Destiny *
* Book of Messages *
* Peace of Mind *

* All messages received are transferred to blank disc *

Price varies according to postcodes.

 

[wardenclyffe]

I apologize for continuing the derail in this thread, but I wanted to update the list of paranormal prizes with the new info from the Belgian Skeptics. It's one thing that they are offering more money, but another important thing is that they now have organizations all over Europe who can conduct the first part of the test in their local areas. It significantly increases the reach of the test and allows many more people to participate. Kudos to the Belgian Skeptics!

Here's the updated list:

The Belgian SKEPP organization updated their prize in 2013 to one million Euros:
http://www.skepp.be/prijzen/de-sisyphus-prijs/

They have authorized local European skeptical groups to conduct the preliminary tests for the million. Here's who they've approved so far:

Participating countries for the one million Sisyphus Test
( !! to discourage spam-robots, we changed the “at” sign in the e-mail addresses in § ,
please restore them )
Belgium
SKEPP vzw
Firmin Lecharlierlaan 44/B10,
1090 BRUSSEL
www.skepp.be
info§skepp.be

Czech Republic
Czech Skeptics Club SISYFOS
(waiting for confirmation)

Germany:
GWUP e.V.
Arheilger Weg 11
64380 Rossdorf
zentrum§gwup.org
www.gwup.org

Estonia
MTÜ Eesti Skeptik
Lagedi tee 17
11415 Tallinn
Eesti - Estonia
www.skeptik.ee
skeptik§skeptik.ee
phone +372 5089328

Hungary:
Gabor Hrasko
President
Hungarian Skeptic Society
gabor§hrasko.com

Italy
CICAP
Luigi Garlaschelli
garlaschelli§cicap.org

Poland
Polish Sceptics Club
Tomasz Witkowski
www.sceptycy.org
rzecznik§ksp.org

Spain
elretodelmillon§circuloesceptico.org
www.circuloesceptico.org
Sweden
Sven Ove Hansson <soh§kth.se>

The Netherlands
Skepsis
j.w.nienhuys§tue.nl

United Kingdom:
ASKE Association for Skeptical Enquiry
email: aske1§talktalk.net
website: http://www.aske-skeptics.org.uk/

There's the Australian Skeptics' AU$100,000 Prize
http://www.skeptics.com.au/features/prize/
They also offer AU$20,000 as a "Spotter's Fee"

There's the IIG's US$50,000 Challenge in California, USA
They now have affiliates in Atlanta, GA and Washington, DC and are developing affiliates in Denver, CO, Calgary, Canada and probably other places as well.
http://www.iigwest.org/challenge.html
They also offer US$5,000 as a "Finder's Fee"

There's the North Texas Skeptic's US$12,000 Challenge in the USA
http://www.ntskeptics.org/challenge/challenge.htm

There's Prabir Ghosh's 2,000,000 Rupee Challenge in India
http://rationalistprabir.bravehost.com/

There's the Swedish 100,000SeK prize offered by Humanisterna
http://www.humanisterna.se/kristallkulan/

The Tampa Bay Skeptics offers a US$1000 prize in Florida, USA
http://www.tampabayskeptics.org/challenges.html

In Canada there's the CAN$10,000 from the Quebec Skeptics
http://www.sceptiques.qc.ca/activites/defi

In the UK, the ASKE organization offers a prize
http://www.aske-skeptics.org.uk/challenge_rules.htm
(This prize seems to be under review perhaps since the ASKE organization can now conduct the preliminary tests for the Belgian prize. Check the ASKE website for details.)

Tony Youens in the UK offers £5,000
http://www.tonyyouens.com/challenge.htm

In Finland, Skepsis offers 10,000 Euros
http://www.skepsis.fi/haaste/

The Fayetteville Freethinkers in Arkansas, USA offer a US$1000 prize
http://fayfreethinkers.com/

There's a 1,000,000 Yuan prize in China offered by Sima Nan. This is his blog: http://blog.sina.com.cn/simanan

There's a €50,000 challenge offered by Irish mentalist/magician, Keith Barry. The announcement: http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/...0-2258739.html
and his website: www.keithbarry.com/

I have moved the Belgian test to the top of the list since it's now the biggest. The Australian and American tests are after that. They are big prizes and they both offer finders fees (which I like a lot).

If you find any mistakes or broken links, or know of any tests not on this list, please notify me in this thread.

Thanks,
Ward

 

[Pixel42]

This says it all to me.

http://www.chapter23.org/Demonstration.html

He/she is charging and there's no "for entertainment purposes only" caveat, so that ad is almost certainly illegal.

 

[Pixel42]

Just had a further look round flaccon's site, her location is given as Chester, which has a 'skeptics in the pub' group:

http://chester.humanist.org.uk/?page_id=8

I'm sure they'd be delighted to host one of her "demonstrations".

 

[Pixel42]

Sorry to post three times in a row but I'm still looking at flaccon's site and noticed this:

For skeptics: We can offer you a £1000 reward, against a £100.00 donation made by yourself to your chosen Charity, if you can debunk "our claim" or simply re-create the "Art work and Voices" in the same style as spirits have created it.

Now the only way to properly debunk her claim is to test it scientifically, so she has in effect already agreed to take the sort of test we've been discussing. A chance for the Chester group to get some funding. I'll email them to bring this thread to their attention.

 

[Mojo]

Why would the spirits be concerned about postcodes?

 

[Pixel42]

Why would the spirits be concerned about postcodes?

I guess the further she has to travel to do her 'demonstration' the more she charges.

 

[kedo1981]

Can you just tell us what you are claiming without all the nonsense?
Everybody so far is trying to be nice to you but you still beat around the bush about it.
Just spell it out please

 

[Cassidy]

By "their cause" I assume you mean the spirits' cause. Is that right?

What exactly is their cause, and if the spirits have--by definition--supernatural powers, what's stopping them from spreading it? Are they afraid of flying too?

Your sarcasm surprises me. I'm thru with hurt, but the spirits arn't. Their cause is to communicate with a more deserving device, and work for Charity. Thank u for your input adman, trying to reply to sarcasm, is difficult, no need for it really.

Three stages truth goes through. Ridicule, oppression, acceptance. I know these spirits will need to go thru all three stages before their requests are met, and I'm willing to help them with it.

 

[Cassidy]

Would you care to share the contents of the letter you received from your GP (I understand if you don't)?

How about uploading a couple of the audio clips to your site to allow independent assessment?

I gave the letter to the Bishop, he still couldn't help at that point. I'm real sorry but I doubt I would take the risk of uploading anything now. The spirits express hurt/feelings like us. I don't know but I don't think there is an "us & them" I heard my old friend speak to me, clearly. I called him up and played the recording via landline, he heard this. This is the sort of stuff I'm tying to work out.. how did that happen? (Rhotorical question)

 

[Cassidy]

I guess the further she has to travel to do her 'demonstration' the more she charges.

I don't charge anything. I can't afford to travel for free, I'm skint, it's not about pocket-money. My real job provides me a basic living.

 

[Donn]

Rhotorical question

def: A rhotorical question is one that rotates as answers arrive so as to always present a new face to the audience.

 

[Cassidy]

Sorry to post three times in a row but I'm still looking at flaccon's site and noticed this:



Now the only way to properly debunk her claim is to test it scientifically, so she has in effect already agreed to take the sort of test we've been discussing. A chance for the Chester group to get some funding. I'll email them to bring this thread to their attention.

Excellent. My claim for now, is that "Spirits can speak through such a device as Edison suggested" Please tell whoever you are informing, that I am very keen to have this, tested? dealt with, by someone who's a tad braver than myself.