Looking for Skeptics

[Cassidy]

Not much. So there are no recordings of the voices at all?

Sorry I'll try that again.. I pressed rec'd (12 secs) and pressed stop. I asked them a question, and then pressed playback.
Instead of, Asking the question then pressing record. Yes, I think there's around 3000 recordings (short 12/15 secs) Most are personal requests for a Bishop. They request people I've never heard of.

Testing these spirits is something I prefer the experts to do, but I am testing them.

 

[AdMan]

Sorry I'll try that again.. I pressed rec'd (12 secs) and pressed stop. I asked them a question, and then pressed playback.
Instead of, Asking the question then pressing record. Yes, I think there's around 3000 recordings (short 12/15 secs) Most are personal requests for a Bishop. They request people I've never heard of.

Testing these spirits is something I prefer the experts to do, but I am testing them.

Here's something you should try, if you haven't already:

Invite a friend or acquaintance over to listen to your recordings. This should be someone who ideally you haven't spoken with about what you are hearing on the recordings. Let them listen to them one by one and ask them what they hear, if anything. Remember--it's vital you don't tell them what you hear in advance. If you do, the test is meaningless.

If they consistently hear the same sentences or phrases you hear, before you tell them what you're hearing, you might have something. If not, well that's what you would expect if nothing supernatural were going on.

ETA: You can go something similar with the pictures. Show the images to someone who hasn't seen them before. Don't tell them what you see, and ask them what they see, if anything. For example, try it with the image Orphia has in the next post, without the labels, of course.

By the way, why do you think you need the labels?

And keep in mind that seeing faces in random patterns is what we humans are most likely to do.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Are the voices of the spirits as clear as this image from your website?

 

[Cassidy]

May I ask : What did you do differently this time around, that you weren't doing for the first 20 years of your research?

I wasn't researching for 20 years. I protected the kids, well. 2 of them. Moved homes a few times. I moved to here and it was peaceful for 8 years. I was only trying to record the noises (heavy creaks) and got a load of entangled speech on playback. I didn't record for 2 years after that. Truth on why I tried it again was because a wee child had gone missing "April Jones" and I knew spirits had voices, so maybe I ought to be brave enough and ask them of her where-abouts. Things took over from there, One sign of any negativity and I am seriously out the door.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

I wasn't researching for 20 years. I protected the kids, well. 2 of them. Moved homes a few times. I moved to here and it was peaceful for 8 years. I was only trying to record the noises (heavy creaks) and got a load of entangled speech on playback. I didn't record for 2 years after that. Truth on why I tried it again was because a wee child had gone missing "April Jones" and I knew spirits had voices, so maybe I ought to be brave enough and ask them of her where-abouts. Things took over from there, One sign of any negativity and I am seriously out the door.

Thank you for the information. Here are my thoughts:

Many have tried to prove the existence of spirits through sound recording. None have ever succeeded. There are probably no spirits at work here.

If I could give you any advice at all, it would be to stop recording for a while. Read through Bob Caroll's skeptic dictionary, or get more information about how testing paranormal claims is actually done, what the standards should be, and why. At least, read about pareidolia again, as suggested in previous posts, and try to really understand how it works. You may find that you don't need anyone to explain anything further.

That's just me. ☻☺☻

 

[wardenclyffe]

flaccon,

Welcome to the forum. From what I understand, the spirits are cooperative and want to get their message out to the world. Is that right?

And was April Jones ever found?

There's plenty to test here and the million dollars could easily be yours if the spirits will cooperate.

I look forward to hearing more.

Ward

 

[marplots]

I too would be thrilled to find out that spirits were real. Well worth the million bucks, although it's not really my money.

I hope the experienced members here can give flaccon some clear guidance on how to build a strong case. Looking forward to hearing more.

 

[Pixel42]

And was April Jones ever found?

Her murderer has just been convicted. He claims to have had a psychotic break and forgotten what he did with the body, but it seems clear from the forensic evidence that he dismembered it and scattered the pieces over a wide area. The search for her body has been abandoned.

flaccon: in order to apply for the MDC you need a clear claim and a suitable test protocol. From what you've said it seems that the information the spirits give you could be the basis of both. Something like this:

1. Cards of 10 different colours are place in 10 different envelopes.

2. You are presented with each in turn, ask the spirits which colour is in that envelope, and record the answer.

3. The envelopes are then opened to see if you are right.

In this sort of test it's possible to calculate what the odds of success are in advance, and set success criteria significantly higher. In this case you would only be expected to guess the correct colour by chance for one of the 10 cards, and the success criteria would be set at 5 or 6 (i.e. you wouldn't need to correctly identify all of them to have demonstrated that there is something supernatural going on). Is this the kind of the thing you think might work?

The downside of taking a test like this is that it will also show if you are wrong in your belief that spirits are talking to you. Please be aware that this is a real possibility, as there have been many examples of people who have inadvertantly fooled themselves into such beliefs only to eventually be shown to be mistaken.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Here's something you should try, if you haven't already:

Invite a friend or acquaintance over to listen to your recordings. This should be someone who ideally you haven't spoken with about what you are hearing on the recordings. Let them listen to them one by one and ask them what they hear, if anything. Remember--it's vital you don't tell them what you hear in advance. If you do, the test is meaningless.

If they consistently hear the same sentences or phrases you hear, before you tell them what you're hearing, you might have something. If not, well that's what you would expect if nothing supernatural were going on.

ETA: You can go something similar with the pictures. Show the images to someone who hasn't seen them before. Don't tell them what you see, and ask them what they see, if anything. For example, try it with the image Orphia

I second this suggestion. Several tests like this would be very worthwhile before going to the trouble of creating a MDC test protocol.

 

[Cassidy]

Thank you for the information. Here are my thoughts:

Many have tried to prove the existence of spirits through sound recording. None have ever succeeded. There are probably no spirits at work here.

If I could give you any advice at all, it would be to stop recording for a while. Read through Bob Caroll's skeptic dictionary, or get more information about how testing paranormal claims is actually done, what the standards should be, and why. At least, read about pareidolia again, as suggested in previous posts, and try to really understand how it works. You may find that you don't need anyone to explain anything further.

That's just me. ☻☺☻

Thank u for the advice.. in honesty I doubt I will stop recording, if anything I'd prefer a more deserving device like Edison suggested.

 

[Cassidy]

flaccon,

Welcome to the forum. From what I understand, the spirits are cooperative and want to get their message out to the world. Is that right?

And was April Jones ever found?

There's plenty to test here and the million dollars could easily be yours if the spirits will cooperate.

I look forward to hearing more.

Ward

Thank u, yes cooperative, and yes they are asking for "loudspeaker" April wasn't found no. It was just a sad & desperate thought at the time. I'm really not here to challenge Randi, I don't fly, although that sort of prize money would seriously benefit their cause.

 

[AdMan]

Thank u, yes cooperative, and yes they are asking for "loudspeaker" April wasn't found no. It was just a sad & desperate thought at the time. I'm really not here to challenge Randi, I don't fly, although that sort of prize money would seriously benefit their cause.

By "their cause" I assume you mean the spirits' cause. Is that right?

What exactly is their cause, and if the spirits have--by definition--supernatural powers, what's stopping them from spreading it? Are they afraid of flying too?

 

[Stray Cat]

Flaccon, could I ask why you are "looking for sceptics" as your thread title states?

At present you have ignored or dismissed without giving reason any and all of the information they have helpfully given and advice they have helpfully offered.

If you could give a clear and cohesive reason that you wish to enlist the help of sceptics, we could maybe start to fulfill your requirements and move the thread forward instead of rambling on in apparent ambiguity.

 

[Cassidy]

Her murderer has just been convicted. He claims to have had a psychotic break and forgotten what he did with the body, but it seems clear from the forensic evidence that he dismembered it and scattered the pieces over a wide area. The search for her body has been abandoned.

flaccon: in order to apply for the MDC you need a clear claim and a suitable test protocol. From what you've said it seems that the information the spirits give you could be the basis of both. Something like this:

1. Cards of 10 different colours are place in 10 different envelopes.

2. You are presented with each in turn, ask the spirits which colour is in that envelope, and record the answer.

3. The envelopes are then opened to see if you are right.

In this sort of test it's possible to calculate what the odds of success are in advance, and set success criteria significantly higher. In this case you would only be expected to guess the correct colour by chance for one of the 10 cards, and the success criteria would be set at 5 or 6 (i.e. you wouldn't need to correctly identify all of them to have demonstrated that there is something supernatural going on). Is this the kind of the thing you think might work?

The downside of taking a test like this is that it will also show if you are wrong in your belief that spirits are talking to you. Please be aware that this is a real possibility, as there have been many examples of people who have inadvertantly fooled themselves into such beliefs only to eventually be shown to be mistaken.

It's no mistake, I wished it was. Not nice hearing passing "lunatics" and my Father constantly requesting help. I doubt I'll be testing the spirits with magic acts, I'd just like the UK BASED "ASKE" organisation to come up with a plausible answer. I'll swallow anything plausible. There's too many incidents, witnesses and house moves to be mistaken. I see you are only in Wiltshire? Not sure how far that is, but I don't charge for demo's and I do travel.

 

[Orphia Nay]

It's no mistake, I wished it was. Not nice hearing passing "lunatics" and my Father constantly requesting help. I doubt I'll be testing the spirits with magic acts, I'd just like the UK BASED "ASKE" organisation to come up with a plausible answer. I'll swallow anything plausible. There's too many incidents, witnesses and house moves to be mistaken. I see you are only in Wiltshire? Not sure how far that is, but I don't charge for demo's and I do travel.

What you are claiming is happening is a magic act. Why the opposition to one now?

Adman's suggestion of getting friends to listen to the recordings isn't a magic act.

Pareidolia is a plausible answer.

 

[AdMan]

I'll swallow anything plausible.

I'm sorry, but so far you're not addressing--let alone accepting--any kind of rational explanation as a possible explanation.

You're coming across like a full-blown woo believer, unwilling to seriously challenge your beliefs from a skeptical point of view.

I predict you won't last very long in this forum.

 

[Cassidy]

Flaccon, could I ask why you are "looking for sceptics" as your thread title states?

At present you have ignored or dismissed without giving reason any and all of the information they have helpfully given and advice they have helpfully offered.

If you could give a clear and cohesive reason that you wish to enlist the help of sceptics, we could maybe start to fulfill your requirements and move the thread forward instead of rambling on in apparent ambiguity.

I haven't dismissed anything. I value in-put. I asked for skeptics so I can observe their reaction, gather their information, and check a few pointers, so I know what we are to expect. I don't feel I've rambled have I? If I have, it has been a very enlightening ramble. I don't mind removing myself from this thread if you feel it worthless, I've gathered "reaction" "information" enough to add another page to the book (after my homework last night) Thanks for your input.

 

[Stray Cat]

Thank u, yes cooperative, and yes they are asking for "loudspeaker" April wasn't found no. It was just a sad & desperate thought at the time. I'm really not here to challenge Randi, I don't fly, although that sort of prize money would seriously benefit their cause.

I don't see why not flying has anything to do with anything.
You are aware of ASKE and they are part of the organisation that offers the one million Euros prize. The prelim test is in the UK so no flying involved and they would no doubt love to examine the possibility that you are indeed experiencing some paranormal event. If you pass the prelim test, they give you £400 and that would be enough to get you on a ferry to Belgium for the main test.
So far in this thread and from your website, you have not managed to show anything paranormal, nor communicate clearly what you perceive to be paranormal about the things you see and hear.

Until you do, no one can help you to design a test to test it.

 

[Pixel42]

It's no mistake, I wished it was. Not nice hearing passing "lunatics" and my Father constantly requesting help.

Pareidolia can be very convincing, but it's still a mistake. As far as I can see you have not yet made any attempt to eliminate it as an explanation, so you are not yet in a position to confidently state that you are not mistaken.

I doubt I'll be testing the spirits with magic acts, I'd just like the UK BASED "ASKE" organisation to come up with a plausible answer. I'll swallow anything plausible.

ASKE will give you the same plausible explanation as we have - audio and visual pareidolia. You need to find out if that is indeed the explanation before you do anything else. You have been given suggestions as to how to do that.

There's too many incidents, witnesses and house moves to be mistaken.

As far as I can see there are lots of incidents of what looks exactly like pareidolia.

I see you are only in Wiltshire? Not sure how far that is, but I don't charge for demo's and I do travel.

I can do my own demos of pareidolia. Until you have eliminated that as an explanation there's no reason to travel anywhere.

 

[wardenclyffe]

Her murderer has just been convicted. He claims to have had a psychotic break and forgotten what he did with the body, but it seems clear from the forensic evidence that he dismembered it and scattered the pieces over a wide area. The search for her body has been abandoned.

flaccon: in order to apply for the MDC you need a clear claim and a suitable test protocol. From what you've said it seems that the information the spirits give you could be the basis of both. Something like this:

1. Cards of 10 different colours are place in 10 different envelopes.

2. You are presented with each in turn, ask the spirits which colour is in that envelope, and record the answer.

3. The envelopes are then opened to see if you are right.

In this sort of test it's possible to calculate what the odds of success are in advance, and set success criteria significantly higher. In this case you would only be expected to guess the correct colour by chance for one of the 10 cards, and the success criteria would be set at 5 or 6 (i.e. you wouldn't need to correctly identify all of them to have demonstrated that there is something supernatural going on). Is this the kind of the thing you think might work?

The downside of taking a test like this is that it will also show if you are wrong in your belief that spirits are talking to you. Please be aware that this is a real possibility, as there have been many examples of people who have inadvertantly fooled themselves into such beliefs only to eventually be shown to be mistaken.

An excellent suggestion for a protocol if we get that far. I'd like to suggest a couple of amendments. First, the cards would have the name of the colour written in that colour, so the card for green would be white with the word GREEN written on it.

That way, the spirits could either recognize the colour or the word or both, so there would be no confusion between green and turquoise or any other shade.

The second suggestion is that the cards would not have to be in envelopes. It would take a little extra volunteer help, but the cards could be placed on a music stand (one at a time) in the same room as flaccon, behind her back or somewhere that she could not see them, but the spirits could. They would not be concealed in any way, except from flaccon's eyesight.

The spirits would not have to see inside an envelope or a box or anything. The cards would be in plain sight in the room. That should make it as easy as possible for them. Since they want their message out there, this would be a way to get the whole world to take notice. The test itself might seem frivolous to them, but they'd have to realise that passing such a test would not only be financially rewarding to flaccon (whom they like), but it would make everyone take all their future messages very seriously.

If flaccon could pass the test with the skeptics in the UK, the prize money would allow her to take a cruise ship to Florida to meet James Randi and take his million dollars. No flying necessary.

But I would start with the suggestions about having others listen to the recordings to see if they are hearing the same things flaccon is.

Ward