Looking for Skeptics

[xterra]

flaccon said she was going to have the blood DNA matched with Jesus's blood. We have heard nothing since. I suspect she might not have found a laboratory able to do this.

I thought I had read every post in this thread, but apparently I missed one.

Is this blood that of the person who is claimed to have existed 2,000 years ago? If it is, where in the world would the sample come from? How would anyone have such a sample; how could it be authenticated?

If it is not, whose blood is it and what would a DNA analysis seek to prove?

Clarify please, someone.

 

[scrappy]

From flaccon's comments it sounds very much like ASKE's Sisyphus pre-test.

Sisyphus is the Million Euro Challenge, the Belgian Skeptical Society's version of the JREF MDC. The preliminary tests were to be carried out in the applicant's home country. ASKE would have done this in the UK. http://www.aske-skeptics.org.uk/pretest.html.

flaccon said she had supplied all the required documentation such as testimonials from her doctor and other professionals However I see two problems:

The rules include

The applicant must state clearly in advance, and the applicant and ASKE will agree upon, what powers or abilities will be demonstrated, the limits of the proposed demonstration (so far as time, location and other variables are concerned) and what will constitute both a positive and a negative result. This is the primary and most important of these rules. In accordance with the rules outlined by SKEPP for the pre-test, the applicant must submit a one-page description of his or her claim, along with a concise test protocol proposal that describes how the claim will be demonstrated, the circumstances under which the demonstration will take place, and the degree of accuracy the applicant claims to achieve (i.e.; what results will constitute a successful demonstration).​

We know that flaccon cannot do this. Also, the ASKE 'contest' closed a few weeks ago, perhaps because there were no applicants.

As we speak ASKE is in the process of preparing a new challenge http://www.aske-skeptics.org.uk/challenge_rules.html. When it is launched, should flaccon apply?

Flaccon didn't like to mention what her last reply said but it was along those lines. Flaccon sorted all the above out and sent it off over a month ago. Flaccon received a silent recording from the organiser, she heard nothing from them for over two weeks after that. Her father told her they were closing. They finally contacted her telling her their problems. I'm sure Flaccon will re apply.

 

[scrappy]

From flaccon's comments it sounds very much like ASKE's Sisyphus pre-test.

Sisyphus is the Million Euro Challenge, the Belgian Skeptical Society's version of the JREF MDC. The preliminary tests were to be carried out in the applicant's home country. ASKE would have done this in the UK. http://www.aske-skeptics.org.uk/pretest.html.

flaccon said she had supplied all the required documentation such as testimonials from her doctor and other professionals However I see two problems:

The rules include

The applicant must state clearly in advance, and the applicant and ASKE will agree upon, what powers or abilities will be demonstrated, the limits of the proposed demonstration (so far as time, location and other variables are concerned) and what will constitute both a positive and a negative result. This is the primary and most important of these rules. In accordance with the rules outlined by SKEPP for the pre-test, the applicant must submit a one-page description of his or her claim, along with a concise test protocol proposal that describes how the claim will be demonstrated, the circumstances under which the demonstration will take place, and the degree of accuracy the applicant claims to achieve (i.e.; what results will constitute a successful demonstration).​

We know that flaccon cannot do this. Also, the ASKE 'contest' closed a few weeks ago, perhaps because there were no applicants.

As we speak ASKE is in the process of preparing a new challenge http://www.aske-skeptics.org.uk/challenge_rules.html. When it is launched, should flaccon apply?

Flaccon didn't like to mention what their last reply said but it was along those lines. Flaccon sorted all the above out and sent it off well over a month ago. Flaccon received a silent recording from the organiser, she heard nothing from them for over two weeks after that. Her father told her they were closing. They finally contacted her telling her of their problems. I'm sure Flaccon will re apply.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Flaccon didn't like to mention what their last reply said but it was along those lines. Flaccon sorted all the above out and sent it off well over a month ago. Flaccon received a silent recording from the organiser, she heard nothing from them for over two weeks after that. Her father told her they were closing. They finally contacted her telling her of their problems. I'm sure Flaccon will re apply.

ASKE told her they were closing, then "her father told her they were closing".

It's a miracle!

 

[scrappy]

I thought I had read every post in this thread, but apparently I missed one.

Is this blood that of the person who is claimed to have existed 2,000 years ago? If it is, where in the world would the sample come from? How would anyone have such a sample; how could it be authenticated?

If it is not, whose blood is it and what would a DNA analysis seek to prove?

Clarify please, someone.

That's how this haunting began. She was on her way to a certain Bishop that the spirits had requested. She was forced to breathe in for over 3 minutes and soon after, her scar bled. She changed the shirt and chucked the stains in the bin. She was told to retrieve the shirt and give the stains to the bishop cos they'll be suspicious of voices. She was also healed over night of long term illnesses. if the bishop had of dealt with this, theres no way flaccon would be entering into contests.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Since we have already heard recordings which flaccon claims are her own voice, but one is a Brummie and the other is a Northerner, I think we have to take her voice recognition skills with a pinch of salt.

 

[scrappy]

ASKE told her they were closing, then "her father told her they were closing".

It's a miracle!

[qimg]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w194/orphia/Smileys/jesusdance.gif[/qimg]

No, aske didn't actually say they were closing. Her father told her weeks ago that they were closing, she only received the aske reply a few days ago.

 

[scrappy]

Since we have already heard recordings which flaccon claims are her own voice, but one is a Brummie and the other is a Northerner, I think we have to take her voice recognition skills with a pinch of salt.

Theres 1 recording with her voice on it. Her family know her voice, and their fathers/grandfathers voice. The voice I sent you tonight, matches with quite a few on youtube.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Hi jack. I blocked the lens with card. Flaccon asked me to do a silent recording in Jan and asked what my PC's background noises sounded like. There was no noise at all on it, apart from the quiet hiss.





The file I sent to you earlier, is what comes out of my recordings since I sent Flaccon that "silent" file in June. This is the voice that she (and other fam members) claims to be her fathers voice.

If your computer's recordings are louder now than before then its audio settings have changed. It's not mysterious. There's nothing out of the ordinary on that recording, just noise and someone speaking off-mic.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Theres 1 recording with her voice on it. Her family know her voice, and their fathers/grandfathers voice. The voice I sent you tonight, matches with quite a few on youtube.

There are two recordings linked to on this thread in which flaccon claims the woman's voice is her own. One is the recent clouds video from YouTube which has a young woman speaking in a Northern accent. The other is an older recording in which as I recall I thought I could hear a budgie (or parakeet, if you prefer). The woman in that clip has an entirely different accent.

 

[Scordatura]

from what I know of the original stains, she called forensics who quoted £1000 no guarantee. The Gp is witnessing evidence that supports her claims. Last week the Gp told her that he hears and see's clearly, he also asked her did she still have the original stains.

Thanks for the information, Scrappy. Maybe flaccon should ask her GP to write an order for the blood test so her health insurance would cover the cost. Obviously he couldn't request a comparison to Jesus' DNA since there aren't any existing samples, but it would verify whether or not the blood was hers. Unfortunately, the result wouldn't count as evidence - there's no chain of custody in place - but it might be helpful to flaccon.

Also, just "witnessing" an event isn't good enough to be called evidence. For example, if I was deaf, there would be no way for me to hear voices in a recording; it would be foolish of me to be convinced they were there just because someone says so. The same goes for the images if I was blind. People make mistakes, people lie.

In the case of the bloodstains, even though the spirits claimed that the blood was Jesus', flaccon called a lab and inquired about having it tested. Why? Because she was looking to corroborate their statements. In other words, seeking evidence.

Scordatura

 

[xterra]

I asked:

Is this blood that of the person who is claimed to have existed 2,000 years ago? If it is, where in the world would the sample come from? How would anyone have such a sample; how could it be authenticated?

If it is not, whose blood is it and what would a DNA analysis seek to prove?

To which, scrappy answered:

That's how this haunting began. She was on her way to a certain Bishop that the spirits had requested. She was forced to breathe in for over 3 minutes and soon after, her scar bled. She changed the shirt and chucked the stains in the bin. She was told to retrieve the shirt and give the stains to the bishop cos they'll be suspicious of voices. She was also healed over night of long term illnesses. if the bishop had of dealt with this, theres no way flaccon would be entering into contests.

Curiosity questions about the highlighted phrase: How can a person inhale for three minutes? How can a person be forced to inhale for three minutes? And what does that have to do with a scar bleeding?

But all that is irrelevant to my real questions, Scrappy, which you have not answered:

So the blood is from flaccon's shirt. One assumes that you mean the spirits told flaccon to retrieve the shirt.

What does that have to do with Jesus? Why in the world would her blood show DNA from someone else, someone whose blood is not available for comparison? Scrappy, just to be clear about the DNA, this is the same as if you find someone's fingerprint in your house. The police can't tell who made the print UNLESS THERE IS ANOTHER PRINT TO WHICH IT CAN BE COMPARED. So whose DNA will be compared to flaccon's?

As for the claim that she was healed of long-term illnesses, would flaccon be able to produce medical records that show she had these illnesses on Tuesday and on Wednesday did not have them? If not, then it is merely anecdotal testimony, not evidence.

Also, just so we know, when did this bleeding episode occur? This year, last year, in 1978, when? Did the healing occur within a day of the bleeding?

 

[Orphia Nay]

xterra, Chapter 23 of the Da Vinci Code (the inspiration for flaccon's website title) is about a woman discovering she is a descendant of Jesus. I think that may be something to do with this blood business.

 

[xterra]

xterra, Chapter 23 of the Da Vinci Code (the inspiration for flaccon's website title) is about a woman discovering she is a descendant of Jesus. I think that may be something to do with this blood business.

Thanks, Orphia.

Dan Brown, Da Vinci Code.

Unimpeachable source. I am convinced.

 

[Orphia Nay]

No, aske didn't actually say they were closing. Her father told her weeks ago that they were closing, she only received the aske reply a few days ago.

You said she said he said they said.

Sure.

Thanks, Orphia.

Dan Brown, Da Vinci Code.

Unimpeachable source. I am convinced.

 

[AdMan]

You know, I know we asked the questions months ago, and I don't want to go too far into AAH territory, but this tag-team posting by flaccon and scrappy (basically posting on flaccon's behalf and disclosing such intimate details as what went on during visits to her GP) is quite suspicious.

I have to say I still think there is more going on behind the scenes than we can see.

 

[desertgal]

That's how this haunting began. She was on her way to a certain Bishop that the spirits had requested. She was forced to breathe in for over 3 minutes and soon after, her scar bled.

How can anyone be FORCED to inhale for over 3 minutes? It is physically impossible. Do you never attempt to apply logic to anything flaccon tells you?

She changed the shirt and chucked the stains in the bin.

How does one chuck stains into a bin? Why does your ability to be literate and comprehensible fluctuate?

She was told to retrieve the shirt and give the stains to the bishop cos they'll be suspicious of voices. She was also healed over night of long term illnesses.

You have proof of all this, right? You wouldn't just be taking flaccon's word for it?

if the bishop had of dealt with this, theres no way flaccon would be entering into contests.

In what way could the bishop have dealt with it? Exorcism, or advocating flaccon's commital to psychiatric care?

What contests is she entering into? Not the Randi challenge, and the other contest mentioned here was, according to you, closed before she could enter into it.

What clearly defined claim is flaccon using to enter any contest? Most folks here have been asking for that from the start of this thread, and, from your remarks, there actually is such a claim. Do share.

In any case, you didn't answer the question you quoted, which was:

I thought I had read every post in this thread, but apparently I missed one.

Is this blood that of the person who is claimed to have existed 2,000 years ago? If it is, where in the world would the sample come from? How would anyone have such a sample; how could it be authenticated?

If it is not, whose blood is it and what would a DNA analysis seek to prove?

Clarify please, someone.

Do you want to give actually answering the questions that were actually asked a go?

 

[trustbutverify]

Flaccon didn't like to mention what their last reply said but it was along those lines. Flaccon sorted all the above out and sent it off well over a month ago. Flaccon received a silent recording from the organiser, she heard nothing from them for over two weeks after that. Her father told her they were closing. They finally contacted her telling her of their problems. I'm sure Flaccon will re apply.

If you're claiming that flaccon provided ASKE with a concise test protocol, along with well defined positive and negative outcome conditions, I'd really like to see a copy of that. I mean I'd really, really like to see that.

 

[Pixel42]

If you're claiming that flaccon provided ASKE with a concise test protocol, along with well defined positive and negative outcome conditions, I'd really like to see a copy of that. I mean I'd really, really like to see that.

Me too. When I tried to help her come up with exactly that earlier in the thread she said the spirits were refusing to cooperate. Presumably they changed their minds.

Perhaps whilst we're waiting for ASKE to relaunch their challenge we could help her do a dry run of her test. She wouldn't want to make the mistake so many MDC applicants have of not trying her agreed protocol beforehand, and then publically humiliating herself by utterly failing to produce better than chance results. If she does succeed there are plenty of other prizes on offer that she could go for, including the MDC of course, if ASKE decide not to continue with theirs.

 

[Quinn]

Me too. When I tried to help her come up with exactly that earlier in the thread she said the spirits were refusing to cooperate. Presumably they changed their minds.

Maybe they watched the recent David Blaine special and decided card tricks were pretty cool after all.