Looking for Skeptics

[Biscuit]

There doesn't seem to be any set methodology for flaccon's experiment so I would wager the webcam function is used because she didn't know there was another option.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

That can't be true: All of the entangled frequencies have been copiously calibrated. Not to mention apostro'phiz'ed et' al.

In flaccon's defense, she has been willing to listen to much skeptical discussion about pareidolia and technical info on sound recording. We need to find better ways to help her understand what's being said to her--said by us, I mean, rather than by the "spirits", whose inaudible ramblings she deciphers with reckless ease.

That gives me an idea.

Perhaps someone could record a short, clear explanation of pareidolia, confirmation bias, the history of evidence of paranormal claims, etc. on a noisy webcam, and compress it or otherwise modify it so that it might sound like it came from the spirits.

That could work...

 

[Garrette]

What about "Ladybrook"?

Just thought you should know that at least one old-timer gets the reference. It made me smile and also made me think of perhaps the greatest JREF post ever (can't recall who posted it, though):

"Loorbydak."

 

[Mojo]

Starrman.

 

[Daylightstar]

What about "Ladybrook"?

Sorry, no, can't make "Ladybrook" fit.

 

[trustbutverify]

That can't be true: All of the entangled frequencies have been copiously calibrated. Not to mention apostro'phiz'ed et' al.

In flaccon's defense, she has been willing to listen to much skeptical discussion about pareidolia and technical info on sound recording. We need to find better ways to help her understand what's being said to her--said by us, I mean, rather than by the "spirits", whose inaudible ramblings she deciphers with reckless ease.

How difficult is it to understand that valid evidence would be represented by having information pass from the spirits to flaccon which she could not have acquired in any other way and which could be objectively verified post test? No one needs any special technical knowledge to understand this.

There's no need to find better ways to help her understand because the OP isn't interested in "understanding" anything which threatens that which sets her apart.

 

[Daylightstar]

Hereby for reference, attached a clip from the Wimbledon file containing the purported 'Wimbledon' sound/word.

Amplified and slowed down slightly in Audacity, exported as mp3 (34Kb)

 

[blue sock monkey]

Hereby for reference, attached a clip from the Wimbledon file containing the purported 'Wimbledon' sound/word.

Amplified and slowed down slightly in Audacity, exported as mp3 (34Kb)

Now I hear an iguana with the hiccups.

How difficult is it to understand that valid evidence would be represented by having information pass from the spirits to flaccon which she could not have acquired in any other way and which could be objectively verified post test? No one needs any special technical knowledge to understand this.

There's no need to find better ways to help her understand because the OP isn't interested in "understanding" anything which threatens that which sets her apart.

I understand (and, to an extent, share) your frustration. If her mind is truly closed, then no amount of clarification or examples will help her get past her fixation. However, flaccon has shown signs of good faith and wanting to understand--the experiment with Alderbank, taking down portions of her website, and continuing to post here, to name a few. So I am willing to help keep the conversation going for a bit longer.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Hereby for reference, attached a clip from the Wimbledon file containing the purported 'Wimbledon' sound/word.

Amplified and slowed down slightly in Audacity, exported as mp3 (34Kb)

There is too much attack on the first syllable to be Wimbledon.

After I got the idea that it says "temperatures" I could hear nothing else.

1000 spirits get together, crammed like sardines in Flaccon's house, and decide to say "temperatures" (or Wimbledon or whatever). Real useful stuff.

 

[Agatha]

1 Alderbank
2 Donn
3 Biscuit
4 Orphia Nay
5 Slowvehicle
6 IXP
7 AdMan
8 Drs_Res
9 jsfisher
10 blue sock monkey
11 trustbutverify
12 John Jones
13 Blue Bubble
14 Maurice Ledifficile
15 Abaddon
16 Jack by the Hedge
17 pakeha
18 xterra
19 Quinn
20 Empress
21 tsig
22 Daylightstar
23 Agatha

I occasionally hear pops, hisses, chirps and gurgles but nothing resembling speech. All of the sounds I hear are reminiscent of old recordings with poor quality equipment, like the background noise of an old 78 vinyl record played on an early gramophone with a fluffy needle. Nothing that I could identify as speech, even on the one labelled Wimbledon.

I am sorry, flaccon.

 

[IXP]

Hereby for reference, attached a clip from the Wimbledon file containing the purported 'Wimbledon' sound/word.

Amplified and slowed down slightly in Audacity, exported as mp3 (34Kb)

If I force myself to hear this as speech, I hear "apple soup."

IXP

 

[iknownothing]

The following question is not answered earlier in the thread, I believe: Why specifically does flaccon choose to use her laptop's video recording capability to record just sound instead of simply her laptop's audio recording capability.

My guess: because that was how she first stumbled across the sounds. Maybe she was going to record something on her webcam, but hit "record" when she wasn't ready yet, and stopped it 12 seconds later. When she played it back (for whatever reason), she thought she heard voices. Turned up her speakers, and thought she heard them a little better. Put her ear up to the speakers, heard it even better. Listened over & over, and made out words from the voices. So ever since then, she repeats what works: record 12 seconds of silence on webcam, then play it back repeatedly, turned up loud with her ear to the speakers, until she hears words.

 

[trustbutverify]

I understand (and, to an extent, share) your frustration. If her mind is truly closed, then no amount of clarification or examples will help her get past her fixation. However, flaccon has shown signs of good faith and wanting to understand--the experiment with Alderbank, taking down portions of her website, and continuing to post here, to name a few. So I am willing to help keep the conversation going for a bit longer.

Fair enough. But this is identity you're dealing with here, not just opinion or belief. The Amazing Randi has clearly demonstrated to me what's involved when identity is at stake.

 

[Quinn]

The the interest of accuracy and making sure I don't become the guy who lets flacon say "Even some people on the JREF site heard the voices!", I would like to clarify that I said I heard "bits that I could make myself believe sounded like speech."

Pareidolia would still be the most likely explanation, even if you did hear something that sounded like a voice.

Yes, I agree completely, and that was exactly my point. I had hoped that was clear, but in case it wasn't, let me state unequivocally that I see no reason to think there's anything other than pareidolia involved.

 

[Vortigern99]

Yes, I agree completely, and that was exactly my point. I had hoped that was clear, but in case it wasn't, let me state unequivocally that I see no reason to think there's anything other than pareidolia involved.

There is also the credulous, supernatural, demon-haunted context in which that pareidolia operates. Given that (according to the Chapter 23 website) Flaccon expressly believes in spirits, God, Jesus, demons, the ghosts of departed loved ones and other non-evidential ideas (including that cats cause cancer), there is unequivocally a great deal more than pareidolia involved in Flaccon's claims.

 

[pakeha]

There is also the credulous, supernatural, demon-haunted context in which that pareidolia operates. Given that (according to the Chapter 23 website) Flaccon expressly believes in spirits, God, Jesus, demons, the ghosts of departed loved ones and other non-evidential ideas (including that cats cause cancer), there is unequivocally a great deal more than pareidolia involved in Flaccon's claims.

Yes.
One thing is believing you hear words in electronic buzz and quite another, believing cats are sent by a supernatural force to cause cancer in humans.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Pareidolia:

I see a face in that cloud, kind of funny...



Paranoidolia:

I see a face in that cloud, which is really accumulated chemtrails left by lizard-men HAARP agents in alien spacejets out to control our thoughts so we don’t realize the truth, which is that the souls of the dead have chosen me to be their spokesperson...

 

[asydhouse]

Hereby for reference, attached a clip from the Wimbledon file containing the purported 'Wimbledon' sound/word.

Amplified and slowed down slightly in Audacity, exported as mp3 (34Kb)

At last, a file I can listen to on my Mac computer!

And if that's the best candidate, it's even less than I had expected. How anyone could hear Wimbledon, let alone anything else, in that little lot, I don't know!

It just sounds like a toilet flushing to me. And I'm the guy who could hear phrases like humans talking to me through the noises birds make! I reckon my brain is as pareidolia adept as anyone could hope for (if they were thoughtless fools, to hope for any such thing, that is), so this rubbish is really nothing.

I think flacon is started up by hearing anything at all in a file she expected to be silent. Given her predilections to believe in being haunted etc, the "mysterious" (to her nontechnically savvy mind) arrival of sounds in what should be a silent recording had to be a sign of spirits attempting to communicate.... the rest is her trying to engage with that... just as I learned to hear voices in India when I was so freaked out and paranoid. The desperate need to hear the message makes the brain reach, reach, reach too far... straining to make out what's being said...

So, add my name to this list of folks who have not heard any voices in the recordings... I think I'm justified even though I've only listened to one file, as it was the "best" one on offer, apparently.

People on JREF who cannot hear voices in these files:

1 Alderbank
2 Donn
3 Biscuit
4 Orphia Nay
5 Slowvehicle
6 IXP
7 AdMan
8 Drs_Res
9 jsfisher
10 blue sock monkey
11 trustbutverify
12 John Jones
13 Blue Bubble
14 Maurice Ledifficile
15 Abaddon
16 Jack by the Hedge
17 pakeha
18 xterra
19 Quinn
20 Empress
21 tsig
22 Daylightstar
23 Agatha
24 asydhouse

 

[Old man]

Add my name to this list of folks who have not heard any voices in the recordings, too. When I listened repeatedly, the closest I could come to an actual 'word' was "appleton".

People on JREF who cannot hear voices in these files:

1 Alderbank
2 Donn
3 Biscuit
4 Orphia Nay
5 Slowvehicle
6 IXP
7 AdMan
8 Drs_Res
9 jsfisher
10 blue sock monkey
11 trustbutverify
12 John Jones
13 Blue Bubble
14 Maurice Ledifficile
15 Abaddon
16 Jack by the Hedge
17 pakeha
18 xterra
19 Quinn
20 Empress
21 tsig
22 Daylightstar
23 Agatha
24 asydhouse
25 Old man

 

[steenkh]

I do not really see the point in listing the number of people who cannot hear words on those silent recordings when flaccon herself has said that old recordings lose words that once were there, or suddenly have messages that were not there before.

Clearly, flaccon now must claim that the words be produced at the moment of playing, rather than the moment of recording the recordings, and as far as we know, the recordings only contain voices when flaccon is present.

This is entirely consistent with a pareidolia explanation, or that the spirits really are there, but only speak to flaccon, or when flaccon is close by. The spirits also tend to speak in riddles, and they want to avoid being tested, all of which again indicates a pareidolia explanation, guided by flaccon, who might suspect what we already know: that the spirits are not there, and nothing is talking to her from beyond.