Looking for challenge

[Christopher Pille]

If Reiki is the only energy healing system you are proficient in, I highly doubt you would be able to match the kind of structural change I claim to cause. There is a "woo" reason for this that I won't delve into here.

In two previous cases I have corrected longstanding hip misalignment in under five minutes. I would be interested to hear if you or your massage therapist friend could achieve the same results.

In one case I performed my technique on a girl who was in a major car accident and received brain damage which caused her back muscles to be unable to hold the spine straight, resulting in a severe and progressively worsening curve. Over the course of three treatments I was able to reduce the curve in the top part of her spine -- which I focused on the most -- from ~65 degrees to ~45 degrees, according to the girl's doctor (based on what the girl's mother told me). Unfortunately that was not enough for her parents to reconsider her scheduled surgery to put a rod in her spine to force it straight.

I have not tested my ability on too wide a range of deformities with different causes, but I am willing to try anything.

My claim centers on spines affected by scoliosis. While I do not doubt that massage therapy can result in physical changes involving the spine, I have not heard of any instances in which scoliosis was "cured" by massage therapy. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[The Atheist]

If you or anyone is applying to prove paranormal ability, you'd better have the goods, for your claims will be examined with utmost scrutiny -- a scrutiny that will not allow any subterfuge.

The results will be transparent, so prepare to reveal your all to the world.

M.

Seconded.

 

[Apathia]

If Reiki is the only energy healing system you are proficient in, I highly doubt you would be able to match the kind of structural change I claim to cause. There is a "woo" reason for this that I won't delve into here.

In two previous cases I have corrected longstanding hip misalignment in under five minutes. I would be interested to hear if you or your massage therapist friend could achieve the same results.

In one case I performed my technique on a girl who was in a major car accident and received brain damage which caused her back muscles to be unable to hold the spine straight, resulting in a severe and progressively worsening curve. Over the course of three treatments I was able to reduce the curve in the top part of her spine -- which I focused on the most -- from ~65 degrees to ~45 degrees, according to the girl's doctor (based on what the girl's mother told me). Unfortunately that was not enough for her parents to reconsider her scheduled surgery to put a rod in her spine to force it straight.

I have not tested my ability on too wide a range of deformities with different causes, but I am willing to try anything.

I was also trained in Shiatsu and Cranio-sacral Therapy. Many of the Massage Therapists I personnaly know blend "Energy" modalities with their work. (My roomate is also a Reiki master and uses Polarity Thearpy, CST and other way woo-woo things. I'd expect her to get dramatic resuslts as well. But I'm not here to get into a competition. I'd defer such a case to the practioners I know who have are specialized in such issues.

The results you mention above are very much what I've read and heard in Massage Therapy and Energy Work circles. I have no reason to doubt your accounts.

It's my opinion that surgery for most musculo-skeletal issues is way overdone.
A regimin of sessions and exercises would do for most with surgery as a last.
And I've heard too many stories of surgeries gone wrong. But as to whether a give case really needs surgery, I have to defer to the professionals, aka liscensed physicians.

Again I encourage you to apply for the Challenge.
Never mind the "woo" aspects you spoke of. The Challenge doesn't require or want an explanation. It just wants a demostation of the paranormal claim.
Personnaly I don't find what you've mentioned so far to be paranormal. But it is very unusualy to the ears of most people. And if the JREF judges it as beyond the norm, or you are able to effect a change that medical science considers beyond the norm, Then do it.

 

[The Atheist]

If Reiki is the only energy healing system you are proficient in, I highly doubt you would be able to match the kind of structural change I claim to cause. There is a "woo" reason for this that I won't delve into here.

In two previous cases I have corrected longstanding hip misalignment in under five minutes. I would be interested to hear if you or your massage therapist friend could achieve the same results.

In one case I performed my technique on a girl who was in a major car accident and received brain damage which caused her back muscles to be unable to hold the spine straight, resulting in a severe and progressively worsening curve. Over the course of three treatments I was able to reduce the curve in the top part of her spine -- which I focused on the most -- from ~65 degrees to ~45 degrees, according to the girl's doctor (based on what the girl's mother told me). Unfortunately that was not enough for her parents to reconsider her scheduled surgery to put a rod in her spine to force it straight.

I have not tested my ability on too wide a range of deformities with different causes, but I am willing to try anything.

My claim centers on spines affected by scoliosis. While I do not doubt that massage therapy can result in physical changes involving the spine, I have not heard of any instances in which scoliosis was "cured" by massage therapy. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Finally, we're starting to get some information as it's released, drip by drip....

Are you an aspiring writer as well? You know, a mystery writer who lets the bits out of the bag ever so slowly, an Agatha Christie of the paranormal? Even now, you're tantalising us with a TV Advertorial-style, "but wait, there's more...)

If Reiki is the only energy healing system you are proficient in, I highly doubt you would be able to match the kind of structural change I claim to cause. There is a "woo" reason for this that I won't delve into here.

You come in here, question the credibility of a number of people whose names you don't even know who have committed to working on a challenge for EA - in the ridiculously unlikely event one gets that far. (And I don't care that you attacked my credibility, broad shoulders, I have; and I ask for it, big mouth, I have too.)

And what is your challenge after all that? "Psychic energy" (or whatever other moniker you'd like to put on it) and its use as a source of "healing".

Ok, Chris - Mr. Integrity - I can see why you were so reluctant to provide anything at the start and why you don't want people copying the claim. "Psychic healing" in any form, is nothing new and the number of "exponents" around the world is at least thousands at any one time. Hell, there are parts of the world where single villages have two "psychic healers"

Yes indeed, Chris, there is a queue for testing for psychic healing and you are currently number 234,165th in the queue.

Cheers, mate, see you in a few centuries.
<The Atheist walks away, humming, "credibility, credibility">

 

[Christopher Pille]

The kind of energy we work with has not been accounted for by mainstream science. It is "above" accepted natural laws, hence "supernatural" or "paranormal". Bringing it down to the realm of science via a successful demonstration with concrete results should catalyze a revolution in scientific thought.

 

[Apathia]

My claim centers on spines affected by scoliosis. While I do not doubt that massage therapy can result in physical changes involving the spine, I have not heard of any instances in which scoliosis was "cured" by massage therapy. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Your results are going to vary depending upon the cause of the scoliosis.
In many cases you are going to see visible straightening of the spine, but not necessarily a one shot permenant cure. People need to adress it with yoga and in some cases life style changes to effect a permanant change.
So, no, Massage Therapy alone doesn't cure scoiosis. And Reiki alone won't effect a permenant change either in most cases unless the client experiences other changes in mind, body, spirit, and behavior.

 

[Christopher Pille]

The Atheist: I think the true queue consists of those currently going through the JREF's application process. I appear to be the only one.

Hyparxis: As I have stated above, my claim does not involve Reiki.

 

[The Atheist]

Again I encourage you to apply for the Challenge.
Never mind the "woo" aspects you spoke of. The Challenge doesn't require or want an explanation. It just wants a demostation of the paranormal claim.
Personnaly I don't find what you've mentioned so far to be paranormal. But it is very unusualy to the ears of most people. And if the JREF judges it as beyond the norm, or you are able to effect a change that medical science considers beyond the norm, Then do it.

Mate, this stuff you're posting is excellent! Keep it up. I love people like you who can come along and make cogent argument with these kind of guys and the way you're doing it on a level playing-field of paranormal silly-putty is grossly entertaining.

Well played.

 

[LibraryLady]

I also live close to Goucher, and if I can be of assistance in any way, please let me know.

 

[Christopher Pille]

Mate, this stuff you're posting is excellent! Keep it up. I love people like you who can come along and make cogent argument with these kind of guys and the way you're doing it on a level playing-field of paranormal silly-putty is grossly entertaining.

Well played.

What argument? Hyparxis and I do not seem to disagree.

 

[The Atheist]

The Atheist: I think the true queue consists of those currently going through the JREF's application process. I appear to be the only one.

Classic!
Jim Jones thought that too, mate, have you thought about a career in the church?

Quite right, nobody has ever had a challenge involving "psychic healing" before - I've got a call in to to the Guiness Book of World Records to ask for your inclusion as the first ever person to claim a paranormal healing ability. Your last sentence would probably be factually correct if you added the phrase, "at the moment" to it.

The kind of energy we work with has not been accounted for by mainstream science. It is "above" accepted natural laws, hence "supernatural" or "paranormal". Bringing it down to the realm of science via a successful demonstration with concrete results should catalyze a revolution in scientific thought.

"We"? Who the hell is "we"? You were "the only one" a second ago.


If you're wondering why I'm being quite so vitriolic, other guys, this is why:

Yes, it is great to have such a lucid applicant for a change!

My step daughter had scoliosis with a large angle, and the surgery to correct it was invasive to the extreme. Though she seems to have benefited in the long run.

How wonderful it would be to find a non-surgical treatment.

Because there are people out there with these deformities and health issues and people like Chris falsely raise the hopes of sufferers.

Chris, if you have made a medical discovery, go and earn some of the billions available in healthcare and come back and tell us what a success you are in a couple of years' time.

If you think you genuinely have a paranormal ability - see a psychologist.

 

[Apathia]

The kind of energy we work with has not been accounted for by mainstream science. It is "above" accepted natural laws, hence "supernatural" or "paranormal". Bringing it down to the realm of science via a successful demonstration with concrete results should catalyze a revolution in scientific thought.

In my opinon the changes you see fall within Physiology as medical science already knows it. "Energy" work engages the parasympathetic nervous system and encourages the release of endophins and hormons that do a number of remarkable things. And then there is the placebo effect which is not to be mallined. It's not merely that the patient believes, but that she hopes and has a focused intent.
Paranormal? No. But this effect and the claims of Somatic type Body Work Therapies deserve more attention and research, and your demonstration would encourage that.

I'd advise not making much a deal about "energy," it will distract, and you'll get people suggesting you prove there is this mysterious energy and explain how it works before you demonstrate your work.
Again the One Mill Challenge doesn't require you to explain anything, just do it.

 

[Christopher Pille]

"We"? Who the hell is "we"? You were "the only one" a second ago.

"We" refers to people like Hyparxis and I. He said he is a Reiki master, as I am. I said I was the only one going through the process, not the only "psychic healer".

Chris, if you have made a medical discovery, go and earn some of the billions available in healthcare and come back and tell us what a success you are in a couple of years' time.

I have made no discovery. I just think it a better use of time to take the claimed ability to the heart of skepticism and put it to the ultimate test, rather than minister to the people who already believe in its efficacy.

 

[Christopher Pille]

In my opinon the changes you see fall within Physiology as medical science already knows it. "Energy" work engages the parasympathetic nervous system and encourages the release of endophins and hormons that do a number of remarkable things. And then there is the placebo effect which is not to be mallined. It's not merely that the patient believes, but that she hopes and has a focused intent.

I am willing to demonstrate on a person of skeptical persuasion who adamantly disbelieves in the paranormal. I expect the same results.

You are correct that I need not explain the theory behind the phenomenon. In fleshing out a protocol however, we need to establish the maximum degree that a spine could theoretically straighten itself itself via endorphins, hormones, or whatever else. The test, then, will be to see if I can surpass that degree using my technique, which would indicate the presence of some paranormal phenomenon.

 

[Apathia]

What argument? Hyparxis and I do not seem to disagree.

I'd disagree on a supernatural explanation or a mysterious energy explanation, but I don't disagree on what you do.

I do have an issue with over the top claims of energy work curing chronic illnesses. When it helps as an adjunct to proper medical attention, I'm happy to see it. When people attempt to use it as a substitute for proper medical attention, it becomes a scam in my book. I say this for any so-called energy based or Somatic therapy.

As I said, "Go for it." Most of the people here who haven't had any experience of what you are doing will dissmiss it right out without giving it thought and investigation. I'm a strange kind of bird myself, I have both a "silly putty" mind and one that questions and is anaytical.
Also my personal conclusions are working models rather than Truth.

 

[Christopher Pille]

I am sure all the skeptics here consider their current view of reality as a working model instead of Truth. I know I do. The beauty of this situation is that as a result of a solid demonstration, someone will have to change their working model. Either I will have to, or all of you will.

If it's me, I will spread the word to people who still think this kind of stuff works.

If it's all of you, I hope we can work together to spread the word to everyone else.

 

[The Atheist]

I am willing to demonstrate on a person of skeptical persuasion who adamantly disbelieves in the paranormal. I expect the same results.

You are correct that I need not explain the theory behind the phenomenon. In fleshing out a protocol however, we need to establish the maximum degree that a spine could theoretically straighten itself itself via endorphins, hormones, or whatever else. The test, then, will be to see if I can surpass that degree using my technique, which would indicate the presence of some paranormal phenomenon.

Even I can understand that, Chris, well put. You've let the cat entirely out of the bag now, go ahead and make a few suggestions. No point holding us in suspenders any more, guvnor, cough up. You just go do it - let me know when you have.

Oh, hey, I have it on good authority that the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale - you look like just the kind of guy who could sell it a few times.

Chris, seriously; you're obviously not [completely] stupid. You've deluded yourself that you can BS your way into, and past, a $1,000,000 paranormal challenge which has stood for xty-something years, so you certainly don't lack confidence in your own abilities. You're quite articulate and obviously have a good grasp of some of the basics. You really should just walk away from here and start up a motivational seminar series or a real estate company.

Au revoir.

 

[Apathia]

I am willing to demonstrate on a person of skeptical persuasion who adamantly disbelieves in the paranormal. I expect the same results.

You are correct that I need not explain the theory behind the phenomenon. In fleshing out a protocol however, we need to establish the maximum degree that a spine could theoretically straighten itself itself via endorphins, hormones, or whatever else. The test, then, will be to see if I can surpass that degree using my technique, which would indicate the presence of some paranormal phenomenon.

What I said earlier about fascia is more to the matter of scoliosis, though the above is involved in the effects as well.
And testing for the presence of a paranormal pheonomenon? Of course. It's a worthy cause.

It would be hard to establish precisely how far a spine could expect to be straightened apart from a supernatural intervention. The Human body has been know to exceed educated expectations. But if you can at least show your type of thearpy is efficatious over and above placebo and is a viable alternative to invasive surgery, you'll be able to tm it and teach it in your own school. Oh well, there are already schools of therapies without an evidence supporting their claims. But I hope you could do better.

 

[The Atheist]

I am sure all the skeptics here consider their current view of reality as a working model instead of Truth.

Sorry, Chris, just before I go, I see that little gem! You might want to re-think that sentence - that has ID written all over it, I have had that very sentence spouted to me in an ID context. Reality is reality, hypotheses are hypotheses and BS is BS.

I know I do. The beauty of this situation is that as a result of a solid demonstration, someone will have to change their working model. Either I will have to, or all of you will.

See, this is where it annoys me that people discount bookies giving odds. All of science and history vs one bloke.

The challenge should for a Quilliad, not a million.

If it's me, I will spread the word to people who still think this kind of stuff works.

Yeah, right!

If it's all of you, I hope we can work together to spread the word to everyone else.

Now, on that, you may rest assured.

 

[Apathia]

I am sure all the skeptics here consider their current view of reality as a working model instead of Truth. I know I do. The beauty of this situation is that as a result of a solid demonstration, someone will have to change their working model. Either I will have to, or all of you will.

If it's me, I will spread the word to people who still think this kind of stuff works.

If it's all of you, I hope we can work together to spread the word to everyone else.

My own opinion is that it works within limitations. It's hard to know just where the line of limitation is, but it's no where close to being an alternative for standard medical attention.

What I'm trying to express is that I see value in what you are doing and want that value investigated. Too many times the myterious energies language has led to a dead end and to Caring Touch being dismissed as total nonsense.

So what I say isn't meant to dismiss you from consideration but to encourage investigation and your personal quest.