Logical? Deism.

[Tricky]

Was time created?

I don't have time to respond to your whole post, wraith (it's mostly repitition anyway) because I am headed off to a Celtic music festival for the weekend.

But to your last point. If you can postulated something that is not created, like time, then why can you not postulate other things that were not created, like the universe.

Did time just "happen"? Why then can't the universe just "happen"?

 

[wraith]

Celtic festival hey?
Sounds cool



...because this universe depends on time

 

[Franko]

Tricky: (A-Theist)
Did time just "happen"? Why then can't the universe just "happen"?

Back to the "steady-state" model of the Universe Trixy? Ohh, I just love the "superior A-Theist worldview".

I can imagine a universe not existing, but for some strange reason I can't do the same with Time (can't imagine Time not existing). Perhaps you'll explain it to us since you claim it's all logical according to "intellectually better" metaphysical belief system?

Of course if Your system really isn't better or superior I imagine all we will see is more of your a-Theist lies, logical fallacies, condescentions, and run around, but perhaps it will inspire you to compose another epic in homage to me and your soul-crushing Karmic debt.

 

[Unas]

This post is a response to Franko's post #359135. Should that post vanish, it will mean that Franko has deleted it. He will most likely repost it below, to make it appear as though no one had responded to it. His actions will be yet another demonstration of his fundamental intellectual dishonesty.

Ohh, I just love the "superior A-Theist worldview".

Who are you quoting, Franko? Did Tricky mention a "superior A-Theist worldview"? If so, cite the specific post.

I can imagine a universe not existing, but for some strange reason I can't do the same with Time (can't imagine Time not existing).

What does that prove, other than that there are certain things you personally are incapable of imagining?

Of course if Your system really isn't better or superior I imagine all we will see is more of your a-Theist lies, logical fallacies, condescentions, and run around...

Lies, logical fallacies, condescension, and run-arounds are all your tactics, Franko. Do you not believe that you are running up a "soul-crushing Karmic debt" with your constant dishonesty?

 

[Guest]

Unas,

Just stop and perhaps we can get this thread back on track?

 

[Franko]

Can any one (a-Theist in particular) explain to me how it is possible for Time to not exist? I can't perceive how it is even possible that this could be True. Is there anyone who can explain it LOGICALLY, without Special Pleading Question Begging, or other Logical Fallacy?

2 + 2 = 4 ... just like that?

Anyone want to take a crack at this? ... anyone at all?

 

[neutrino_cannon]

I'm you man Franko (In a not-prostitutional way)

There have been studies in human perception that show an assumtion in a seies of pictures (girl with ice cream, ice cream on ground) that show we naturally assume an intermediate step.

Suppose that all existance is is the fleeting flicker of several ephemeral universes, each having no thickness of temporality (time is the fourth dimension right? Each universe has width, depth and height, just no duration). But that flicker is enough to cause equaly ephemeral interactions, namely those involving reality and our souls. These interactions are wholely random, no rhyme or reason to them, but our souls, which are equiped with some sort of reasoning ability make sense of the ecclectic flicker.

In this universe, ther is no time, there is only the constant flicker of untold and infinite universes. Like some bizzare dream, it has no logic really, but it makes sense while your in it.

By the way, this entirely theroretical universe has room fo solipism, determinalism or randomness, as well as the existance or non existance of God. We could well be in it.

 

[Tricky]

Celtic festival hey?
Sounds cool

Great fun. Oustanding international music and dancing, hobnobbing and jamming with professional musicians, making new friends. I feel refreshed.

...because this universe depends on time

The universe depends on matter and energy too, plus a lot of other stuff. You are assuming that time is the key ingredient, but without any explanation of how it works. Does time create energy? If so, how? Why can time self-exist, but nothing else? Without anything other than your assumptions to go on, your position sounds remarkably like faith and/or magic. Please show me this is not the case.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Can any one (a-Theist in particular) explain to me how it is possible for Time to not exist? I can't perceive how it is even possible that this could be True. Is there anyone who can explain it LOGICALLY, without Special Pleading Question Begging, or other Logical Fallacy?

2 + 2 = 4 ... just like that?

Anyone want to take a crack at this? ... anyone at all?

0 + 0 = 0 .... just like that. Well, actually not

Time is one of the ... ingredients that it takes to form this universe. If the universe does not exist, then neither does time. There was no before the universe was created. There wasn't even nothing. There simply was no being.

But we dont know this. It is just what seems to logically follow from observations.

Hans

(edited for codes)

 

[wraith]

This post is a response to Franko's post #359135. Should that post vanish, it will mean that Franko has deleted it. He will most likely repost it below, to make it appear as though no one had responded to it. His actions will be yet another demonstration of his fundamental intellectual dishonesty.
Who are you quoting, Franko? Did Tricky mention a "superior A-Theist worldview"? If so, cite the specific post.
What does that prove, other than that there are certain things you personally are incapable of imagining?
Lies, logical fallacies, condescension, and run-arounds are all your tactics, Franko. Do you not believe that you are running up a "soul-crushing Karmic debt" with your constant dishonesty?

Unas, you are the spam king these days

Say, have you ever thought about rearranging your name so that "U" and "a" swap places?

 

[wraith]

There have been studies in human perception that show an assumtion in a seies of pictures (girl with ice cream, ice cream on ground) that show we naturally assume an intermediate step.

??

Suppose that all existance is is the fleeting flicker of several ephemeral universes, each having no thickness of temporality (time is the fourth dimension right? Each universe has width, depth and height, just no duration). But that flicker is enough to cause equaly ephemeral interactions, namely those involving reality and our souls. These interactions are wholely random, no rhyme or reason to them, but our souls, which are equiped with some sort of reasoning ability make sense of the ecclectic flicker.

In this universe, ther is no time, there is only the constant flicker of untold and infinite universes. Like some bizzare dream, it has no logic really, but it makes sense while your in it.

...I like sci-fi too

By the way, this entirely theroretical universe has room fo solipism, determinalism or randomness, as well as the existance or non existance of God. We could well be in it.

Hows that?

 

[Q-Source]

This post is a response to Franko's post #359135. Should that post vanish, it will mean that Franko has deleted it. He will most likely repost it below, to make it appear as though no one had responded to it. His actions will be yet another demonstration of his fundamental intellectual dishonesty.

Uñas ( )

No offense, but you are spamming the board with the same message to Franko. He got it.

Please refrain from doing this as you are breaking one of the rules of the JREF Forum.

Thanks

Q-S

 

[wraith]

Great fun. Oustanding international music and dancing, hobnobbing and jamming with professional musicians, making new friends. I feel refreshed.

Smashing

The universe depends on matter and energy too, plus a lot of other stuff. You are assuming that time is the key ingredient, but without any explanation of how it works. Does time create energy? If so, how?

The way I see it, if there was time, there must have been a consciousness to perceive it...over time, the consciousness became more complex

Why can time self-exist, but nothing else?

Ultimately, there is only Time and Consciousness

Without anything other than your assumptions to go on, your position sounds remarkably like faith and/or magic. Please show me this is not the case.

Well hey! Dont take my word for it. Look at the logic. How can Time not exist?

Whats magical Tricky, is a timeless period, then for no reason, TLOP and Time come to be...

Atheism is that screwed!

 

[Unas]

No offense, but you are spamming the board with the same message to Franko. He got it.

I see no evidence that Franko "got it". What I see is Franko deleting his messages and reposting them, time and again. My messages are intended to provide documentation of Franko's dishonest tactics.

Please refrain from doing this as you are breaking one of the rules of the JREF Forum.

Understood. Has anyone pointed out to Franko that he is doing the same?

 

[Unas]

Can any one (a-Theist in particular) explain to me how it is possible for Time to not exist? I can't perceive how it is even possible that this could be True.

No one said it was true, lying coward. I merely pointed out that your enfeebled imagination is proof of nothing, save for your own inadequacies.

 

[Q-Source]

I see no evidence that Franko "got it". What I see is Franko deleting his messages and reposting them, time and again. My messages are intended to provide documentation of Franko's dishonest tactics.
Understood. Has anyone pointed out to Franko that he is doing the same?

Unas,

Who are you?. Suddenly you appear and follow Franko around the forum

I understand why you are mad at Franko's tactics, but don't you think it makes everything worse if you post the same message all over the forum. Maybe, if you could open a thread in the flame wars section.

Q-S

 

[Tricky]

The way I see it, if there was time, there must have been a consciousness to perceive it...over time, the consciousness became more complex.

So you say, yet you provide no evidence. Where did the consciousness come from? Where did time come from. You are making the same "magical" claims you try to assign to atheists.

Ultimately, there is only Time and Consciousness

And everything else is made of time and consciousness? Get serious, wraith. You know full well there is absolutely no evidence to back this up. Time is a dimension. You might as well say everything is made of "length".

Well hey! Dont take my word for it. Look at the logic. How can Time not exist?

I've shown you a number of "times". How can time exist when there is nothing for it to measure? How is that logical?

Whats magical Tricky, is a timeless period, then for no reason, TLOP and Time come to be...

Everything you don't understand is magical? Well I suppose there is a precedent for your reasoning. Every mythology ever invented proposed something magic to explain things it couldn't fathom. For you, it is giving anthropomorphic qualities to time.

Atheism is that screwed!

Because it refuses to invent stuff when it reaches the current limit of knowledge? You should hope to be so screwed.

 

[wraith]

So you say, yet you provide no evidence. Where did the consciousness come from? Where did time come from. You are making the same "magical" claims you try to assign to atheists.

Well time/consciousness had to exist....

In relation to athiests, a non-conscious TLOP did not HAVE to create conscious entities

And everything else is made of time and consciousness? Get serious, wraith. You know full well there is absolutely no evidence to back this up.

Im perceiving the ideas of another consciousness.
E=mc^2 right?

Time is a dimension. You might as well say everything is made of "length".

whats "length" without consciousness

I've shown you a number of "times". How can time exist when there is nothing for it to measure? How is that logical?

Well thats only if you assume that there is no consciousness

Everything you don't understand is magical? Well I suppose there is a precedent for your reasoning. Every mythology ever invented proposed something magic to explain things it couldn't fathom. For you, it is giving anthropomorphic qualities to time.

Well if I dont understand how 2+2=5 then yes, to you, I believe in magic

Because it refuses to invent stuff when it reaches the current limit of knowledge? You should hope to be so screwed.

Who is inventing stuff?!
It only looks that way because the cult of atheism refuses to acknowledge Truth!

 

[Tricky]

Well time/consciousness had to exist....

Because....???
See, wraith, here's where your argument falls down. After you have asserted a belief, you should then say why you believe it. So far, the only reason I can see for you beliving time/consciousness had to exist is that you can't imagine it not existing.

I'm perceiving the ideas of another consciousness.
E=mc^2 right?

Uh huh. And F=MA, therefore Buddhism is true.

whats "length" without consciousness

A consciousless dimension, like time.

Well thats only if you assume that there is no consciousness

I see no evidence for a cosmic consciousness, so I do not assume it exists. You assume there is a cosmic consciousness, but you provide no evidence. Which is more logical?

Who is inventing stuff?!
It only looks that way because the cult of atheism refuses to acknowledge Truth!

Hint: Soul-carrying gravitons? Progenitor Solipsist? Dream matter? Cosmic consciousness?

Yeah, you're right. I refuse to acknowledge that any of those things are true. My cult is funny that way.

 

[Franko]

MRC:
There was no before the universe was created. There wasn't even nothing. There simply was no being.

But we dont know this. It is just what seems to logically follow from observations.

How long did this "Timeless Era" last for MRC? (approximately?)