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Logical? Deism.

I don't know.
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Think about it …

Suppose that nothing exist.

How long does nothing exist for?

Also, if nothing existed, then how much nothing would exist? A lot of nothing, or just a tiny little bit of nothing? If it is just a tiny little bit of nothing, then is that tiny bit surrounded by a larger nothing?
 
UndercoverElephant said:
The atheist/materialist position is that this is the only Universe and there's nothing special about life.

Just seven numbers.......

:)
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Now, UCE, you know how it irritates people when you state their position for them. As it turns out, both of the above statements are incorrect (for this atheist/materialist at any rate).

This is the only universe for which we have evidence. Others may or may not exist. I cannot honestly say I believe there are other universes because for me, belief is based on evidence. I agree it is possible.

Life is very special. Life is the billion-to-one lottery win. I'd say that is extremely special. It is simply not supernatural. Lotteries are in fact won.
 
Sou,

The two essential elements in Yahzis 'something from nothing' are :

1) polar extraction / equilibrium (particle/anti-particle)
2) The existence of Infinity (the black hole).

These are the two essential elements of any 'something from nothing' explanation. Why do you think I spent so long rambling on about 0 = 1 + -1 and the actual existence of Infinity?


Geoff.
 
Franko said:


What contradiction -- specifically?
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There are several. Let's start with the one Pansihiri pointed out yesterday. You claim we have no Free Will but you also insist there is punishment/reward after death. What is the point in punishing people with no Free Will? What is even the point in threatening them with punishment?
 
There are several. Let's start with the one Pansihiri pointed out yesterday. You claim we have no Free Will but you also insist there is punishment/reward after death. What is the point in punishing people with no Free Will? What is even the point in threatening them with punishment?
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Why do you think we don’t have “free will” elephant? It is BECAUSE there are rewards and punishments. The concept of Rewards and Punishment goes hand in hand with Determinism – haven’t you ever read Skinner???

You can’t condition anyone or anything to do squat without some form of incentive. But that doesn’t change the fact, that like a lightning bolt – you follow a path of least resistance. The LD call that path your worldline (Destiny).
 
UndercoverElephant said:
[Why do you think I spent so long rambling on about 0 = 1 + -1 and the actual existence of Infinity?
Click to expand...

"Because... because you do not know." - Fernando Martinez (From Grand Theft Auto III)

-Chris
 
I have been wantingto post this again ...

In reality … the names and their place on this list were set prior to the initial state (big bang). Only my perception of the list changes over time.

The Forces of Light – the Saved (No particular order)
Consciousness makes Matter – Deist/Theist

Beleth
Beth Paulkey (Butch Slade)
BiliousGreen
BobM
Christian
Csense [mia]
dsm
Filip Sandors
Franko (Serpent)
Gentlehorse
hammegk (Mr. Hand)
Interesting Ian (Mr. Quick)
Jedi Knight (Knight)
LukeT (Luke)[mia]
metachristi
PotatoStew
Roadtoad
Sorgoth
stamenflicker
strongstevesaint (Mr. Sleep)
Win
Wraith (Wraith)


The Legion of Darkness – the Damned
Matter makes consciousness – Atheist

a_unique_person [mia]
Aardvark
aerosolben [mia]
arcticpenguin
AtheistArchon
Billyhoyt [mia]
chulbert
Colloden [mia]
CWL
DanishDynamite
De_Bunk [mia]
Diogenes
Dorman [mia]
Doubt
evildave
Fool
Fade
Futurefan [mia]
GoodPropaganda [mia]
Gnome
ImpyTimpy
joshua korosi
Kodiak [mia]
Lizardpeople
Lucifuge Rofocale
Oceansize [mia]
Paradox [mia]
PixyMisa
Resonabledoubt [mia]
Magnifico
Mossy
MRC_Hans
Segnosaur [mia]
Shemp
Sir-drinks-a-lot
Stimpson (Necromancer)
Synaesthesia
Thaifoodken
Titanpoint [mia]
Tricky
Trish [f] [mia]
Upchurch
Victor Danilchenko [mia]
Whitefork
Whodini
Wolfgirl [f] [mia]
xrayecho [mia]
Yahzi



Neutral Charge – No Alligence
Not enough information – Agnostic

Soubrette (+) (Enchantress) [f]
Slimshady (+) (Shadow)
Luceiia (+) [mia]
Randfan (+)
Scribble (+) (Mobius)
Vorticity (+)
Seelie (+) [f]
BillyJoe (=)
Hal bidlack (=)
Q-Source [f] [-]
Loki (-)
LeFevre (-)
Bjorn (-)
Pahansiri (-)
Gregor (-)
Martinm(-)
Lillyofthepink (-)[f][mia]
Shroud of Akron (-) [mia]
Darat (-)
Sundog (-)



[mia] = I haven’t seen you posts in the R&P in a while.
 
Did you ever answer my question in the other thread about what conclusions you eventually came to regarding that mysterious document that appeared spontaneously on your computer, with answers to your Big Questions in it, and you wouldn't share it with us because of copyright concerns?
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It was a mistake even to mention it. We argue from logic here, not from paranormal happenings.

If so, how do you take full credit for developing your philosophy?
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My philosophy is as old as the hills, Chris. I didn't develop it. I figured out a few basic logical steps and read LOTS of books. Between them Berkeley, Kant, Schopenhaur and Hegel pretty much covered 99% of it. Anything they left out was stated again by numerous other people and illustrated beautifully by Aldous Huxley in 20th century. I take credit for nothing.

And I wish you'd calm down a bit.

Chill, friend. I have my opinion and you have yours.

:)
 
Elephant:
It was a mistake even to mention it. We argue from logic here, not from paranormal happenings.
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Actually you have said you were a Mystic more than once, and on numerous occasions (including in this forum since your “return”) you have claimed that some things cannot be explained logically.

So what is your exact position?

Why is LOGIC suddenly so important? I thought it was all about Math?
 
Franko said:
Why do you think we don’t have “free will” elephant? It is BECAUSE there are rewards and punishments. The concept of Rewards and Punishment goes hand in hand with Determinism – haven’t you ever read Skinner???
Click to expand...

I give up. This does not make any sense to me.


You can’t condition anyone or anything to do squat without some form of incentive. But that doesn’t change the fact, that like a lightning bolt – you follow a path of least resistance. The LD call that path your worldline (Destiny). [/B]
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You are trying to argue that without the threat of punishment after death in hell that human beings would act like a bunch of deranged murderers. Billions of people do not believe in hell, but still manage to behave a lot better than I do.
 
Franko said:
Actually you have said you were a Mystic more than once,
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My metaphysics implies some form of mysticism.

Why is LOGIC suddenly so important? I thought it was all about Math?
Click to expand...

Then you weren't listening. Logic and maths are blood brothers anyway.
 
UCE,

You are trying to argue that without the threat of punishment after death in hell that human beings would act like a bunch of deranged murderers.
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I am saying that people are motivated to action by rewards and punishment. Is this really such a bizarre notion to you? … because this is something that I assumed was pretty obvious (2 + 2 = 4) to everyone?

Billions of people do not believe in hell, but still manage to behave a lot better than I do.
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How do you know what “Billions of people” believe? If they Act like they believe there are consequences for their actions, then it is pretty safe to assume that they believe in consequences for their actions.

It is always the guy who thinks he can get away with murder who commits murder Elephant. It is only people who don’t believe that there will be consequences for their actions who behave as if there won’t be consequences for their actions.

This is the fundamental flaw in your worldview/philosophy.
 
Franko said:


Think about it …

Suppose that nothing exist.

How long does nothing exist for?

Also, if nothing existed, then how much nothing would exist? A lot of nothing, or just a tiny little bit of nothing? If it is just a tiny little bit of nothing, then is that tiny bit surrounded by a larger nothing?
Click to expand...

We should be careful here because nothing is one of those "words", like infinity and god, that we all use but probably have different meanings for.

The only "nothing" I would be comfortable as saying "I understand" would be the "human" meaning of nothing, i.e. “There is nothing in the box”. We all understand that there is still something in the box (whether that be a bit of dust or even just air) but we say there is nothing in the box. When what we really mean is that there is no content of significance in the box.

The "nothing" as used in this metaphysical discussion would seem to be a concept that the human mind can't "intuitively understand". As demonstrated by the wording of your question. It's like being a kid again and saying "I double infinity you!" to top your rival’s infinity.

There are concepts that maths uses i.e. "zero" and "infinity" but I believe we should be very wary of trying to draw analogies with these math terms into our everyday English language based descriptions and debates.

After all maths is another language, like English, that we have invented as a tool to help us to describe and make predictions about the world we live in.


_________

UCE: Following on from my previous comment don’t you think you are being inconsistent in stating that “something can’t come nothing”? Isn’t this just an assumption?
 
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