Merged Lockerbie bomber alive after 9 months

Robert Black had a blog post about this a few days ago. The proverbial dog not barking.

Interesting how nothing about the recent reports about Robert Black's involvement in seeking a great deal of $$ from the Ghadafi regime for his "efforts" if freeing Megrahi (in spite of Black's denial of said compensation) have not surfaced here.

Have at it CT's. Do Google away. And do remember, Google results do not equal evience, verdict, and judgement. ...
Unless your name is Kenny Macaskill, Blair or the Chairman of the board of BP.
 
Suddenly you "welcome" [my] views. Seriously? Really????
ROTFL.

i said i would welcome your views on the other thread, yes, inasmuch as it concerns your own government's cosying up to the Libyan regime post-Lockerbie. one assumes you will be as vocal about that hypocrisy as you are the perceived actions of UK authorities.
 
The real harsh truth to the public perception of The Lockerbie Bombing is that it's solved. A Libyan did it.

Everyone I've spoken to recently in the place that I live (Channel Islands) is convinced. Can they name him? Nope. Can they say how it was done? Nope. Are they at all interested? Certainly not.


It's not quite like that in Scotland. Not that the media aren't doing their damndest to make it like that.

All 270 murders 20yrs ago, and more, actually do count for nothing. It's hard to believe isn't it?


I don't think it's as much "count for nothing", as the feeling that international politics are more important than individual justice. Also, I think a lot of the people involved in the investigation genuinely believe they got the right man. When law enforcement grabs the wrong end of the stick and hangs on to it, as happened in this case, their capacity for tunnel vision and self-delusion is infinite.

I joined this forum many months ago thinking I'd find someone with an argument to point towards something concrete to pin on Mr Megrahi (hell, I'd have settled for something vague) but to find nothing was really very surprising. I've also clearly missed the point in the trial transcripts that convinces those that are so sure. I am also unable to interpret the opinion of the court into a guilty verdict, a thing of itself which beggars belief.


I agree. I started the first thread about Lockerbie with a feeling that the claims of wrongful conviction might turn out to be conspiracy theorising on a par with the 9/11 nonsense. However, even granted that they're not, I was at least expecting a case that could be weighed on its merits. A case where legitimate views might be held on both sides, even if one felt that one side had more merit than the other.

But nothing. There's no evidence against Megrahi at all. The coerced and bribed Gauci identification doesn't stand up to even the most superficial scrutiny, and once that's gone, there's nothing.

What I have found interesting is teasing out how it happened that the investigation managed to go so spectacularly off the rails. So much has been written about a deliberate change of tack to coincide with the first Gulf War, but I don't think it was that at all. I think if that was a consideration, it was purely coincidental. I think the investigation was doomed, in hindsight, on 30th December 1988 when John Orr announced that the bomb had almost certainly not gone on at Heathrow.

If they had been prepared to revise that when further evidence emerged, things might have been so very different. But they weren't, and an examination of what went on during the spring of 1989 reveals a pretty determined CYA effort mounted to provide support for the contention - including a bunch of tests run at Indian Head based on an assumption which was held to for as long as it was needed (to get through the FAI), but was then abandoned for the Zeist trial, and nobody seemed to notice that this completely destroyed the underlying prosecution position. (I'm talking about the assumption that the luggage loaded in the interline shed at Heathrow could not possibly have been moved subsequently, even by a few inches.)

The final confirmation of the derail seems to have been the Erac printout, and in my view that is the central coincidence of the entire affair. Something caused a baggage handler to code tray 8849 for PA103A, and we don't know what it was. It's about as certain as it can be that it was not a bronze Samsonite suitcase with a ticking bomb in it, but that's about as far as we can go. If that item hadn't appeared to be associated with a flight from Malta, when the clothes that had been identified as blast-damaged were manufactured on Malta, that tray would have been about as interesting as tray 6720, which was equally mysterious. But the Malta coincidence was too much for the sleuth mentality, and after that the juggernaut was unstoppable. Malta it was, and the more we don't find any evidence to back that up, the more we're convinced!

It's not that I'm dismissing the infamous timer fragment. The timer fragment is fascinating. But it's relatively peripheral. It seems to have started off simply as an important part of the CYA exercise, a means to explain how it was possible for the device to have arrived on the feeder flight without exploding, by providing evidence of something that wasn't a barometric timer. It became more than that of course, because of the second major coincidence, that the man who happened to be at the airport in Malta at the right moment happened to know the manufacturer of the timers, but I don't believe that was part of any Cunning Plan.

I think the investigators simply see their long-held conviction that the bomb came from Malta (held way before they knew about Megrahi's presence there that morning), look at Megrahi being there at the crucial time, looking suspicious and with a connection to the manufacturer of the timer, and as far as they are concerned that's that. He's obviously guilty. The fact that there isn't a shred of evidence to support that isn't something they're prepared even to contemplate, not after three years hard graft getting to where they got.

There are no secrets to be found in Libya. I reckon this is because no-one's looking. Why is no-one looking? I refer you to the first sentence of this paragraph.


I don't know that nobody's looking. I'll just settle for nobody fabricating anything.

The secrets belong to the trial judges themselves.


I'm genuinely grateful for my short encounter with Ming the Merciless, because it gave me a little insight into the mind of the trial judges (or at least the two who were in favour of convicting). The superiority that says, we have such keen intellect and nigh-supernatural insight that we can magically see a truth that mere mortals don't recognise.

These two guys were apparently hard-wired to believe every defendant who came up before the court was guilty. I think there was also a deep-seated feeling that surely the 1991 indictments and the eight years of punitive sanctions against Libya and all the posturing about "incontrovertible evidence" surely couldn't have been that wrong.

I think they bought into the prosecution case wholesale, and simply swallowed it hook, line, sinker and rowboat. And I don't think that would be so unusual if it weren't for jury trials. (Of course juries do that too sometimes, unfortunately.)

I am genuinely sorry for those that have lost. When Mr Megrahi dies, this controversy won't. It will become a curiosity of history unless a Scottish government, judiciary and police force is willing to open itself up to public ridicule. Two words for that possibilty: Shirley McKie.


I don't think it's going to lie down as easily as that. Shirley's dad is on the JFM committee, for a start.

I just wish we knew what it was that was in tray 8849 and why it was coded for PA103A. I can't help feeling that if we knew that, the whole thing would open up like a rose in the sunshine.

Rolfe.
 
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It's not quite like that in Scotland. Not that the media aren't doing their damndest to make it like that.

Oh I don't know. The BBC seem to raise the doubts issue every time the case comes up.
 
I've notced them not mentioning it on a number of occasions recently, though that may be mainly BBC Scotland.

Rolfe.
 
i said i would welcome your views on the other thread, yes, inasmuch as it concerns your own government's cosying up to the Libyan regime post-Lockerbie. one assumes you will be as vocal about that hypocrisy as you are the perceived actions of UK authorities.

You did not provide a link to "the other thread", (unless I missed it, which is entirely possible...I don't follow your comments with baited breath) so, if the link to said "other thread" was not provided, how do you expect me to respond? (not that I will, per previous comment "experiences"). Nevertheless, it would be good to know about that to which you are referring, lest I be bludgeoned again for not responding to Google "evidence" (aka CTs).

~B.
 
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You did not provide a link to "the other thread", (unless I missed it, which is entirely possible...I don't follow your comments with baited breath) so, if the link to said "other thread" was not provided, how do you expect me to respond? (not that I will, per previous comment "experiences"). Nevertheless, it would be good to know about that to which you are referring, lest I be bludgeoned again for not responding to Google "evidence" (aka CTs).

~B.

For those reasons, I did provide the link, though Architect missed the point of my post. Here it is again.

 
Indeedy. The recently bumped one sitting on the first page of Non-USA.

Not everyone reads the forum by visiting each sub-forum. It's far better to give a link than assume someone will know their way around the forum, and that your bumped thread will still be at the top when they come to look.
 
Who knows what to make of this. Or of the obviously cobbled together NTC in Libya. One minute (well 7 months ago actually), we have NTC chairman Jalil claiming he has 'evidence' that Gaddafi was involved in the bombing, then that the 'case is closed', and now interim justice minister Mohammed al-Alagi apparently welcomes the continued investigation as it may help "lead to the acquittal of Abdel Basset al-Megrahi, who has been unjustly convicted in this case".

Reuters said:
Libya's interim justice minister Mohammed al-Alagi said on Wednesday he was ready to work with Scottish authorities to probe the possible involvement of others in the Lockerbie bombing apart from the sole Libyan convicted for the attack.

[...] Alagi added on Wednesday that he welcomed the possibility of an investigation into the possibility of others' culpability because "this will lead to the acquittal of Abdel Basset al-Megrahi, who has been unjustly convicted in this case".

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/28/libya-lockerbie-probe-idUSL5E7KS70Y20110928


Who knows what tomorrow brings with Libya's interim council. Although, if the Scottish crown office were really serious about following up possible leads in Libya, which they are quite clearly not, then surely Mr Jalil has had adequate time, and now unprecedented access to files and documents, to demonstrate his assertion previously made in February?

Of course, just like Mousa Kousa, perhaps the Scottish Crown office are only too aware that there is zero new evidence to be sought or uncovered in Libya. Not from Mr Jalil and certainly nothing that upholds their fantasy world conviction and jackanory tale of how Megrahi bought some clothes at Mary's House and came to put the bomb on at Malta destined for 103 at Heathrow.

But, hopefully for them, there is no harm in seeming to ask or the exhibiting the pretence of pursuing. It helps continue the charade. One day, however, someone might just call their bluff.

.
 
No clue. I doubt if there is anything to be found in Libya to be honest. Until they stop pretending the bomb went on at Malta, I don't think they'll get anywhere.

Rolfe.
 
I have a feeling that the only way anything might actually get moving in this case would be for the real culprit stepping forward and saying: "I did it - and I got away with it, too!"
 
I have a feeling that the only way anything might actually get moving in this case would be for the real culprit stepping forward and saying: "I did it - and I got away with it, too!"


That already happened. Ahmed Jibril is quoted as saying "The Americans will never, ever find out how I did it." Though people who have tried to pin him down on that find that he's a very slippery customer, of course.

Rolfe.
 
Is that the US equivalent of the Daily Mail?

Don't like The Daily News? Ok, here's a link to the same story in The Guardian. The second link is a video clip from the interview Reuters had with him on October 2nd. Seems he came out of his "coma" long enough to tell everyone he's just about to die... again. :rolleyes:

He also said that in a few months there will be new facts released on the case.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/03/lockerbie-bomber-says-role-exaggerated

http://in.reuters.com/video/2011/10/03/lockerbie-bomber-says-his-role-was-exagg?videoId=222175250
 
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