LMAO @ Howard Dean

Republicans "never made an honest living in their lives,"

"pretty much a white, Christian party."


Can we agree that all generalities are false. ;)
 
Moliere said:
Republicans "never made an honest living in their lives,"

"pretty much a white, Christian party."


Can we agree that all generalities are false. ;)
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Um, can we agree that Dean was dishonestly quoted above? Note where the quote starts and ends and then take a look at his actual words and get back to me. There is a big difference in the portion you paraphrased and what he actually said.

A shame Republicans (and you) misquote to make it more attackable.

Lurker
 
Lurker said:
Um, can we agree that Dean was dishonestly quoted above? Note where the quote starts and ends and then take a look at his actual words and get back to me. There is a big difference in the portion you paraphrased and what he actually said.

A shame Republicans (and you) misquote to make it more attackable.

Lurker
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Ok, let's take a look at the whole quote:

#1
Dean told a forum of journalists and minority leaders Monday that Republicans are "not very friendly to different kinds of people, they are a pretty monolithic party ... it's pretty much a white, Christian party."
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If i had wanted to misrepresent him I would have left out the "pretty much" portion of the quote, but I didn't. Therefore I would say I represented his view quite clearly.

#2
The former Vermont governor also recently raised eyebrows when he told a group of progressives that Republicans "never made an honest living in their lives," a comment he was forced to explain a day later.
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What else did you want me to quote here that would put it in better context?
 
Lurker said:
Um, can we agree that Dean was dishonestly quoted above? Note where the quote starts and ends and then take a look at his actual words and get back to me. There is a big difference in the portion you paraphrased and what he actually said.

A shame Republicans (and you) misquote to make it more attackable.

Lurker
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Uhhhmmm..... can we agree that 'paraphrase' means to *change* the words?

paraphrase

• verb express the meaning of (something) using different words.

• noun a rewording of a passage.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/paraphrase?view=uk



Where exactly are the original words that were altered, as you allege?
 
Moliere said:

#2


What else did you want me to quote here that would put it in better context?
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I had no beef with #1 but #2 seemed a bit dishonest. LEt's look at it again:

Republicans "never made an honest living in their lives,"

Note that the quotes start with never not with Republicans. Why is that, do you think? If you do a google search you will find that Dean did not make an absolute statement as is implied in your Quote #2. Do you think it is merely by accident that the Dean is being misquoted to an absolute statement? I think not. Regardless, I am not happy with Dean's strong actual quote and wish he had watered it down a bit more.

But more intersting is the actual argument of voting methods and tiem involved. Why are we more concerned about silliness than the actual substance of his argument?

Lurker
 
Re: LMAO @ another politician

fishbob said:
Paragraph that starts with: "Second, . . . "04 June 2005
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That's great, not only it has nothing to do with the topic but it's far more obscure and debatable; great post.
 
crimresearch said:
Uhhhmmm..... can we agree that 'paraphrase' means to *change* the words?

paraphrase

• verb express the meaning of (something) using different words.

• noun a rewording of a passage.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/paraphrase?view=uk



Where exactly are the original words that were altered, as you allege?
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No problem with defns, crim. AmI the only one who noticed the paraphrase of Republicans. Ask yourself why that is not in quotes as well and then go find out what Dean really said. I agree it still is not great but it is a whole lot better than the absolute statement that he is being misquoted as having said.

Lurker
 
Re: Re: LMAO @ another politician

Grammatron said:
That's great, not only it has nothing to do with the topic but it's far more obscure and debatable; great post.
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lofl

I feel better about starting up a 2d post on this now. Thx. :)
 
Lurker said:
No problem with defns, crim. AmI the only one who noticed the paraphrase of Republicans. Ask yourself why that is not in quotes as well and then go find out what Dean really said. I agree it still is not great but it is a whole lot better than the absolute statement that he is being misquoted as having said.

Lurker
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Either way he -- and let's remember he's the chairman now -- is not helping hist party. They should be formulating policy and offering alternative and not throwing out quotes like that.
 
Lurker said:
I had no beef with #1 but #2 seemed a bit dishonest. LEt's look at it again:

Republicans "never made an honest living in their lives,"

Note that the quotes start with never not with Republicans. Why is that, do you think? If you do a google search you will find that Dean did not make an absolute statement as is implied in your Quote #2. Do you think it is merely by accident that the Dean is being misquoted to an absolute statement? I think not. Regardless, I am not happy with Dean's strong actual quote and wish he had watered it down a bit more.
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I'm all for fully-representing quotes. But I'm a little surprised that you didn't actually include the more complete quote in your response. Seems like that would have been the easiest way to clear it up, rather than just stating that it's a missquote. So here's one source for it:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-06-02-dean-republicans_x.htm

Here is the full paragraph in which the quote appears:

'Dean's comment came as he recalled conditions at crowded Ohio polling stations last fall. He wondered who could expect voters to work all day and then stand in line for eight hours to vote. "Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives," he said, drawing some surprised "oohs" from his audience.'

Make of it what you will, but I figured having the whole thing out there would better serve the debate than just volleying opinions back and forth in the dark.
 
Unfortunately, it appears that Dean learned a valuable lesson from the Republican party during the last election. Even more unfortunately, he did not learn to use third-party shills to hock his stereotypes and misinformation for him, thus distancing himself from it.

:nope:
 
Upchurch said:
Unfortunately, it appears that Dean learned a valuable lesson from the Republican party during the last election. Even more unfortunately, he did not learn to use third-party shills to hock his stereotypes and misinformation for him, thus distancing himself from it.

:nope:
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You are saying the republicans are polemic, divisive and deviously underhanded? I would accuse you of being a cynic but I fear the cynicism is warranted.
 
RandFan said:
You are saying the republicans are polemic, divisive and deviously underhanded?
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Yep. And I'm saying that the democrats are being inept at being polemic, devisive and deviously underhanded. And I'm only afraid that both sides will get better at it.
I would accuse you of being a cynic but I fear the cynicism is warranted.
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I think you're right on both counts. But, then, I'm a cynic. :D
 
Upchurch said:

I think you're right on both counts. But, then, I'm a cynic. :D
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The great thing about being a cynic is that in the end, you are either right or pleasantly surprised. :D
 
Lurker said:
No problem with defns, crim. AmI the only one who noticed the paraphrase of Republicans. Ask yourself why that is not in quotes as well and then go find out what Dean really said. I agree it still is not great but it is a whole lot better than the absolute statement that he is being misquoted as having said.

Lurker
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No, YOU made the assertion that the wording inside the quotation marks had been altered, and you are tapdancing around providing the original words, demanding that others prove your assertions for you.

Where are the original words that you claim were paraphrased?
 
crimresearch said:
No, YOU made the assertion that the wording inside the quotation marks had been altered, and you are tapdancing around providing the original words, demanding that others prove your assertions for you.

Where are the original words that you claim were paraphrased?
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"Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that, because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives," Mr. Dean said

from here now, tell me does this:

Republicans "never made an honest living in their lives,"

accurately represent the original quote?

The correct answer is no, but I expect you to dance, subvert, deny, throw stones or otherwise avoid being honest... Now please prove me wrong and I'll apologize.
 
Aside from the fact that Dean was stupid enough to do his own dirty work, how is what he said any different the right-wing claims about the left? O'Reilly claims that the ACLU is a fascist organization. Hannity compares liberalism to evil. And my personal favorite, Savage calls liberalism a mental disorder.




(To be honest, I don't know if the last one is fair. Michael Savage is, himself, a crazy nut-job. Every "family" has the crazy uncle that no one takes seriously)
 
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