Linux and UNIX stuff - a place to discuss alternative OSs.

[Wudang]

AOL was worse. It set their customers landing to alt.best-of-usenet (as I recall) which got flooded with people paying for an AOL subscription and thus entitled to discuss anything there.
My last 2 groups were rec.martial-arts until it flooded with sports fans and alt.sysadmin.recovery. I'm still friends with some guys from the former today though few of us have met irl.

 

[JayUtah]

We use Linux extensively in my company. Our supercomputers run Linux exclusively, typically RHEL because we need the ease with which that can be qualified for classified work. But also because Linux is just the obvious choice for how we need those computers to work. Similarly many of our larger self-contained products use embedded Linux with kernel extensions for real-time processes. We use these for such things as engineering instrumentation. We use FreeRTOS for the smaller stuff, and we used to use VxWorks.

Otherwise pretty much every desktop is available in our company. Our business people and most of our engineers use Windows because they need applications that are best supported there: business tools, SolidWorks, Ansys, etc. Our artistic staff prefer MacOS because their preferred tools run best there. My company laptop is a MacBook Pro. Most of our software development staff runs one Linux desktop or another. I have staunchly resisted standardizing on a single desktop because I view my people's choice of tools to be an integral part of their success in the industry. We standardize only to the extent required by downstream client requirements.

Ditto at home. I have a Macs, Windows PCs, and Linux PCs. My personal hobbies mimic the "best tool for the job" philosophy.

I came to programming via my engineering training, which at the time was talking to IBM mainframes over clunky terminals, noisy printers, and (yes, I'm that old) poking holes in manila cards. Later those were replaced with Unix workstations such as those made by Sun, IBM, Hewlett-Packard, and Silicon Graphics. That was my introduction to the various Unices, which I found to be a much more attractive programming environment than anything else. From there it was a short trip to Linux on Intel hardware. My first installation was via a stack of 3.5 in floppies. If I need to write a computer program for any reason, dollars-to-donuts I'm going to be writing it on Linux (and for Linux).

Ah, yes, USENET. What a delightfully addictive waste of time that was.

 

[John Albert]

Ah, yes, USENET. What a delightfully addictive waste of time that was.

When I try to explain USENET to the youngsters, I say it was kind of like Reddit without as much toxicity.

.

 

[Wudang]

My droogs have a claim to the first Usenet flame war.

Greenoch/flame wars | Know Your Meme

One of the oldest memes ever, Greenoch was the original flame war. Back then, there were many debates about martial arts styles, and to decide which one wa

knowyourmeme.com

 

[theprestige]

When I try to explain USENET to the youngsters, I say it was kind of like Reddit without as much toxicity.

.

Kind of hard to get more toxic than engendering Godwin's Law.

 

[John Albert]

Kind of hard to get more toxic than engendering Godwin's Law.

These days, with actual neo-Nazis bullying people on every social media platform, Godwin's Law seems almost whimsical. After all, I challenge you to find a better candidate than the Nazis for a worst case scenario of ideology or action.

Most of the time when they were invoked on UseNet, it was the endpoint of a reductio ad absurdum. But over time, as more and more people took to using them as the standard bad example, they turned into a cliche.

Do you think that too many hyperbolic comparisons served to desensitize people to their evil, or defang them in the public opinion?
.

 

[novaphile]

At a few sites over the years, I noticed that UNIX admins and developers were using MacBooks as terminals and development environments.

I never got around to asking why, so I'm wondering if they are particularly well suited to that task?

 

[JayUtah]

At a few sites over the years, I noticed that UNIX admins and developers were using MacBooks as terminals and development environments.

I never got around to asking why, so I'm wondering if they are particularly well suited to that task?

MacOS is based on Darwin, another UNIX derivative. Many of the familiar UNIX tools and utilities are shipped with it, although not placed front and center. The Terminal application is functionally equivalent to xterm, konsole, or your other favorite "command line in a window" tools. XCode gives you things like Python and Clang runnable from the command line.

 

[novaphile]

MacOS is based on Darwin, another UNIX derivative. Many of the familiar UNIX tools and utilities are shipped with it, although not placed front and center. The Terminal application is functionally equivalent to xterm, konsole, or your other favorite "command line in a window" tools. XCode gives you things like Python and Clang runnable from the command line.

I'm kinda guilty of doing the opposite to that.

Over the years, I created little bat files, so that if I typed 'ls', or 'pwd', etc. the command and parameters would be piped to the relevant DOS command...

Hence one day, my team leader chuckling when I typed: ls -la closely followed by: "What the?"



Always keep them guessing.

(Not to mention my absolute favourite, which I believe works in every linux distro, because, tradition:

 

[Darat]

I still - despite using it since System 7 - don’t like Mac OS’s desktop.

My first real exposure to Unix was SCO Xenix, installed that and provided support for dozens of companies. If my recollection is correct it took literally dozens of 5.25 floppy discs for a typical installation. What has always stuck with me is how fast line printers can go through paper when someone manages to pipe output of a terminal to the printer spooler.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

What's your experience with Linux, BSD and the like?

For many years, I was responsible to supporting a compiler and runtime system that ran on Linux, MacOS, and Windows. Apart from a few incidents where an organization's software or hardware conventions forced me to use Windows, that's been my only experience with Windows.

I never got around to making the compiler generate code for M-series Macintoshes, but I still have an Intel-era MacBook and use it occasionally.

My desktop and laptop run Linux, which has been my primary OS for quite a few years now. (The compiler still runs on x86 Linux machines.)

I use Ubuntu. At some point within the past year or two, updating my system software began to brick Gnome because of a version incompatibility between libgmp.so.10 and libhogweed.so.6. It looks as though libgmp.so.10.2.0 may solve the problem, but my software updater keeps re-installing libgmp.so.10. I am now in the habit of removing libgmp.so.10 after every system upgrade. Problems of this sort have been recurring since way back in 2015.

My experience with Linux is that you often have to deal with stuff like that. That's why, when non-nerds ask me what kind of computer they should get, I recommend MacOS. Much as I hate to do so.

 

[John Albert]

For many years, I was responsible to supporting a compiler and runtime system that ran on Linux, MacOS, and Windows. Apart from a few incidents where an organization's software or hardware conventions forced me to use Windows, that's been my only experience with Windows.

I never got around to making the compiler generate code for M-series Macintoshes, but I still have an Intel-era MacBook and use it occasionally.

My desktop and laptop run Linux, which has been my primary OS for quite a few years now. (The compiler still runs on x86 Linux machines.)

I use Ubuntu. At some point within the past year or two, updating my system software began to brick Gnome because of a version incompatibility between libgmp.so.10 and libhogweed.so.6. It looks as though libgmp.so.10.2.0 may solve the problem, but my software updater keeps re-installing libgmp.so.10. I am now in the habit of removing libgmp.so.10 after every system upgrade. Problems of this sort have been recurring since way back in 2015.

My experience with Linux is that you often have to deal with stuff like that. That's why, when non-nerds ask me what kind of computer they should get, I recommend MacOS. Much as I hate to do so.

Are you married to modern Gnome?

If not, maybe try Cinnamon. It's a great option for the classic Gnome experience.
.

 

[zooterkin]

(To reprise something that I've recounted in varying detail at least four times before on this forum. ) :

As far as I can recall, the first UNIX system I used was PNX on the Three Rivers PERQ, being sold by ICL, where I was working, around 1984/5. That was to familiarise ourselves with the OS, as we started working on a port of AT&T UNIX Sys V v2 (then v3) to a Intel 386 based modular system (that could also run DR-DOS). We originally had a DEC system (can't remember if it was a VAX or a PDP-11) running the reference implementation, that was replaced by a pair of AT&T 3B2/400 machines, which I administered for a while.

I then moved to HP, where I used HP-UX on series 300 and 800 machines. It was always described as Sys V based, but I suspect it was more complicated than that, since there was a lot of BSD in it. The product I worked on ended up being ported to other UNIX implementations, so I also used Sun (Solaris and SunOS), IBM (AIX) and Linux (various distributions). I then moved into support, and supported systems software on HP-UX, then Linux systems of various distributions at HP and then Hitachi.

I have dabbled with, but never succeeded in, getting a usable Linux system at home. By the time distributions were usable enough, I was using software that requires Windows (or an Apple system), mainly Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop.

My main PC now is a MacBook; I turned off my last Windows machine a couple of years ago and haven't missed it for a second. MacOS is close enough to UNIX that I can do things on the command line which are faster than using the GUI.

 

[Wudang]

I quite like my Mac Airbook but I LOVE the keyboard. Elevates the whole machine for me.
My 3 laptops rest on this stand when not in use.
Amazon link

 

[John Albert]

I'm kinda guilty of doing the opposite to that.

Over the years, I created little bat files, so that if I typed 'ls', or 'pwd', etc. the command and parameters would be piped to the relevant DOS command...

Hence one day, my team leader chuckling when I typed: ls -la closely followed by: "What the?"



Always keep them guessing.

(Not to mention my absolute favourite, which I believe works in every linux distro, because, tradition:

View attachment 72683

So you basically created your own custom library of aliases in he DOS shell, to make it perform like bash.

 

[Wudang]

One of the first things I do on a new windows box (after Notepad++) is install Git Bash which a) gives a bash shell* and b) optionally allows you to use bash commands like ls in a cmd window. There are alternatives but at the time years back I worked for a bank and had more authority on production servers and mainframes than my bloody dev laptop and that was the only one allowed.

*including "open Git bash here" as a right-click option on folders.

 

[zooterkin]

So you basically created your own custom library of aliases in he DOS shell, to make it perform like bash.

I used to use the MKS Toolkit, which did that on Microsoft systems.

 

[John Albert]

I worked for a bank and had more authority on production servers and mainframes than my bloody dev laptop and that was the only one allowed.

I've worked for several banks, and sometimes the security restrictions were almost crippling. Operations that should take 15 minutes would sometimes take all afternoon.

In my experience, the worst one was HSBC.
.

 

[Wudang]

Guess who I worked for 15 years. I had a change made to the secondary DB standards security guidelines and I told people I’d never do it again.
In contrast at IBM when corporate audit slammed us for not following guidelines we phoned the guidelines author and he changed them to match our practice.

 

[plague311]

I use both Linux and Windows between my house and work. I'd say half of our VMs, maybe less, are Linux for various components of the phone system, and file management. The bulk of my time is spent doing virtualization so I hop between ESXi, ProxMox and recently been giving Nutanix a shot.

I have JayUtah's outlook to OS's. I use whichever one suits my purpose for whatever it is I'm doing. I use Windows for my gaming PC because it's not complicated at all for me to use considering I've done support for them for 20 years. I use Linux for most of my perpetually running things (PiHole, Unifi server, Docker containers) because it's extremely low weight and doesn't require much attention.

Both are great. It's like people that argue backing into a parking spot is "easier" than driving into a parking spot, if either one is difficult for you then there's a deeper problem.