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Links Between Holocaust Denial/Revisionism and 9-11 "Truthers"

William Rea said:
There are a lot of last refuges and strawmen used on here, even by some of the contributors you might think are above such tactics. There are also what appear to be organised "Bots" (people of lower intelligence that are useful for destroying threads when they start swinging against the orthodox line. I used to call them Baboons but felt that was an insult to Baboons because they at least are sentient beings).
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Oh I'm quite familiar with this behaviour, I've pretty much come up with my own description of it - you will have a few reasonable 'intellectual' types, who will actually attempt to construct arguments against you, in a calm, polite and as rational as possible manner - though the last is difficult for obvious reasons, at least to me and others. They will attempt to speak with authority and their posts can usually be classified as subtle appeals to this. Though it's not so subtle on here - they lay it on pretty thick.

Then surrounding them, creating noise, you will have a number of, shall we say - less polite "average joe's", who will usually resort to meaningless insults and ridicule, but who will dip into the output of the ah "alpha's" - so I suppose we should call these the "epsilons", to synchronise talking points, if only to translate them into fresh gutter sniping.

And you have some shades of grey in between (and three spare greek letters - its quiz time chumps!)

William Rea said:
As I stated before, I don't give a rat's arse about your "Truth Movement" it doesn't bother me one way or another. What really gets me is lazy arguing which unfortunately is prevalent on here.

I was asked by Paradalis why I am defensive of the "Truth Movement". Actually I'm not, it's just that the orthodoxy is so skewed on here that even my neutral comments appear left field.

Interestingly, against all my instincts I have just joined the Loose Change Forum to ask a research question. It's going to be really interesting to see if they show similar behavioural patterns as the JREFers. I am also wondering if they will have the same assumed superiority complex.

I'll report back in 3 months.
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Fair enough I don't mind honest disagreement, it's actually a very refreshing change, I don't think I've come across anyone on this forum yet who holds a reasonable position of opposition on the matter (or is it neutrality?), and very rarely elsewhere.

But I would question your lack of concern - as surely, if the theories about 911 are true - would you not agree that this is something that is, excuse me - bloody HUGE mate jeeeeesus christ the yanks blew up america?!!! C'mon are you on Prozac?

Artistic licence, but you get my drift.

Much is made of Loose Change on here, I think the intention being that they wish the whole matter to rest on whether the entire body of information in Loose Change is accurate or not - when the makers themselves admit that there have been mistakes in previous editions, corrected in later ones, and that the whole subject is one sensitive to new developments each day.

Loose Change should be considered for what it is - a well made 'attention getter' designed to raise people's interest. If you are after something a bit more cerebral then there are other resources that you should make yourself familiar with.

But I'm still curious about your lack of interest - is this based on disbelief of the whole thing - or because you have not paid any attention to it yet?
 
William Rea said:
What he means is that he thought you were PDoh and therefore fair game for abusive posts.

Who goes there?
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Spartacus.

Oh I'm familiar with the tactic of attempting to represent the whole of the 911 truth movement as one frantic little poster dropping posts on forums all across the land - a bit like Santa. I mean he sure gets around does pdoh doesn't he?

I thought they were talking about playdough or something, I'm not up on the specific labeling policy of this board, other than the old 'CT' and 'troofer' blather - but again, you see exactly the same elsewhere - everybody is a reincarnation of the first person they beat off - hurrgh hurrgh.
 
scooby said:
Spartacus.

Oh I'm familiar with the tactic of attempting to represent the whole of the 911 truth movement as one frantic little poster dropping posts on forums all across the land - a bit like Santa. I mean he sure gets around does pdoh doesn't he?

I thought they were talking about playdough or something, I'm not up on the specific labeling policy of this board, other than the old 'CT' and 'troofer' blather - but again, you see exactly the same elsewhere - everybody is a reincarnation of the first person they beat off - hurrgh hurrgh.
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2058716&highlight=pdoherty#post2058716
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2196809&highlight=pdoherty#post2196809
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72385&highlight=pdoherty
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76013&highlight=pdoherty
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67186&highlight=sock
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2040441&highlight=sock#post2040441
etc
 
scooby said:
Oh I'm quite familiar with this behaviour, I've pretty much come up with my own description of it - you will have a few reasonable 'intellectual' types, who will actually attempt to construct arguments against you....But I'm still curious about your lack of interest - is this based on disbelief of the whole thing - or because you have not paid any attention to it yet?
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This may sound harsh but I'm indifferent to it because the actual 911 event was not really that significant. More children die from poverty in a week than died in 911. The victims had families who lost loved ones and I feel sorry for them but, it was a drop in the ocean. If it hadn't been 911 it would have been some other event that would have sparked the reaction. 911 made it easier to carry the hearts and minds of the Western Governments but the decision to carry out this realignment of global power was taken way back.

So for me whether 911 was a conspiracy is the wrong question to be asking. The right question is whether the subsequent reaction to 911 was the way forward. it seems to me that all we did was buy ourselves another 50 years of massive arms spending and global skirmishes.

At the end of the day, NIST (and anyone else) only has an educated opinion on the vast majority of what happened on 911. Their failure models and analysis are opinions, whether they are the most likely scenario is open to debate.

The only facts are that aircraft collided with the towers, they subsequently collapsed and many people lost their lives.

I don't understand what "Stundies" are but I assume it is derisive and I hear constant streams of "Twoofer" and the like used on here beneath a banner that says...

"Be part of the JREF web community by engaging in intelligent discussions with both skeptics and non-skeptics from around the globe."​

Sorry, I don't see much of that going on and I fail too see how this forum can claim any moral high ground over Loose Change but, time will tell in that since I have now joined Loose Change and I will see if their forum is anywhere close to being as bad as this one.​
 
William Rea said:
This may sound harsh but I'm indifferent to it because the actual 911 event was not really that significant. More children die from poverty in a week than died in 911. The victims had families who lost loved ones and I feel sorry for them but, it was a drop in the ocean. If it hadn't been 911 it would have been some other event that would have sparked the reaction. 911 made it easier to carry the hearts and minds of the Western Governments but the decision to carry out this realignment of global power was taken way back.

So for me whether 911 was a conspiracy is the wrong question to be asking. The right question is whether the subsequent reaction to 911 was the way forward. it seems to me that all we did was buy ourselves another 50 years of massive arms spending and global skirmishes.

At the end of the day, NIST (and anyone else) only has an educated opinion on the vast majority of what happened on 911. Their failure models and analysis are opinions, whether they are the most likely scenario is open to debate.

The only facts are that aircraft collided with the towers, they subsequently collapsed and many people lost their lives.

I don't understand what "Stundies" are but I assume it is derisive and I hear constant streams of "Twoofer" and the like used on here beneath a banner that says...

"Be part of the JREF web community by engaging in intelligent discussions with both skeptics and non-skeptics from around the globe."​

Sorry, I don't see much of that going on and I fail too see how this forum can claim any moral high ground over Loose Change but, time will tell in that since I have now joined Loose Change and I will see if their forum is anywhere close to being as bad as this one.​
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I agree that other and subsequent events have had a far more devastating effect than 911, but I believe as others do - that 911 is the key to raising peoples awareness of the, shall we say 'not so random' nature of things.

"Never Forget." is a statement liberally applied to discussion of 'The Holocaust' - as if there has only ever been one.

If we can take a handy catchphrase like that, and attach it to "that 911 was an inside job" - we can go a long way to preventing this kind of thing in future, as it seems most of the US and other country's military adventures of late have been kicked off with some kind of false flag attack.

If you wish to bring an early end to this 50 years of arms spending ahead of us, which has been promised - justified by 911, then the only way to do that is to tackle the issue head on and remove the justification.

If you do not, then any and all opposition or criticism of the response, will be countered with a simple "Remember 911" and your efforts will fail.

Also, left as things are, the possibility of a repeat performance to re-invigorate the old flag waving elbows, is ever present.
 
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scooby said:
But I would question your lack of concern - as surely, if the theories about 911 are true - would you not agree that this is something that is, excuse me - bloody HUGE mate jeeeeesus christ the yanks blew up america?!!!
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I actually agree with this.
 
Back to the topic at hand, I found this discussion of Holocaust Denial among the Lyndon LaRouche folks interesting:

For example:

Our First early edition of "Dope Inc" had a chapter on the Protocals of the Elders of Zion".

A New Solidarity article appeared contesting the process of how many Jews really died under the Nazis. LHL and company would be debating over whether they died in slave labor or under gas. As if this is a talking point for our campaigns.
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Webster Tarpley was a big wheel in the LaRouche Movement for many years, and there are apparently several LaRouchies active in the NY Denier Group.
 
scooby said:
<snip>
"Never Forget." is a statement liberally applied to discussion of 'The Holocaust' - as if there has only ever been one.
<snip>
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There has been only one Holocaust, or more properly Shoah. That that particular genocide was given a name, or that the phrase "Never Forget" has become associated with it, does not in any way imply that no other genocides have occurred. For you to suggest that it does, or that others think it is the only genocide because of this, is disingenuous.
 
scooby said:
If we can take a handy catchphrase like that, and attach it to "that 911 was an inside job"
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Reducing your deceptive message to a meaningless jingle is just one more step toward reducing your "movement" to an irrelevant cult. All the believers could then recite the trite mantra together when confronted with the obvious facts that prove your silly theories wrong. Maybe you could all sing it in harmony while you pick over the graves of thousands in this infantile attempt to find meaning in your lives.
 
I just spotted this image on the Zundelsite (home to Ingrid Rimland, well known Holocaust denier and wife of Ernst Zundel who is in prison in Germany). Note the board to the far left.

070507_demo_3.jpg
 
Panoply_Prefect said:
I just spotted this image on the Zundelsite (home to Ingrid Rimland, well known Holocaust denier and wife of Ernst Zundel who is in prison in Germany). Note the board to the far left.

[qimg]http://zundelsite.org/english/news/070507_demo_3.jpg[/qimg]
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Twoofers and Zundelites shoulder-to-shoulder? Whooda thunk it?

I notice a lot of the same faces showing up on every twoofer site I visit. And they all, sooner or later dredge up some white nationalist like Bollyn or Szymanski or D.B. Smith as a source for the woo-woo.

And you should see the hateful responses I got when I first posted to one board that Eric May might be less than a briliant retired Army officer.

Do you smell the compost?
 
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