Links Between Holocaust Denial/Revisionism and 9-11 "Truthers"

[jhunter1163]

William:

Can you explain to me the difference between Zionists and Joooos? I've heard it said that all Joooos are Zionists, but not all Zionists are Joooos. Who else is included in the Zionist cabal besides Joooos?

 

[William Rea]

William:

Can you explain to me the difference between Zionists and Joooos? I've heard it said that all Joooos are Zionists, but not all Zionists are Joooos. Who else is included in the Zionist cabal besides Joooos?

Kind of off topic but since you ask I will offer an explanation in my own words that is open to correction if anyone else wants to chip in...

Jews are generally considered to be descendants of particular semitic tribes that occupied what came to be Israel (south) and Judea (north) of the region adjacent to the Mediterranean that today we call Israel, Jordan, Occupied Territories and the Gaza Strip. This has also been known as TransJordan and Palestine at various points in history.
It is possible to convert to Judaism as a religion but I beleive that descent is a key factor in Judaism so it is difficult to discern whether Jewishness is a race or a religion.

Fundamentally, Zionists believe(d) in the establishment of a Jewish State or homeland for Jews. After the Second World war the Zionists staged a sometimes but not always bloody campaign to achieve this end and the Palestinian region under British command was split along semi-Biblical lines to accomodate this. Interestingly, other areas including parts of the USA were considered for such a State.

Not all Jews are Zionist which can be seen from a simple search on Google. There are some particularly orthodox Jews who believe the State of Israel should not exist.

Depends how broad you define Zionist but all Zionists are not Jewish. There are various Organisations and Governments that are sympathetic to Zionist aims that aren't Jewish. Some of the most recently prominent ones are the evangelical right wing Christians in Western Countries who see the establishment of Isreal and the wars that have resulted as part of the pathway to the rapture.

OPINION - It is quite possible to be indifferent about Jewishness very sympathetic to the plight of Jews but anti-Zionist despite the roasting I will now face for saying that. As an atheist I have no fondness for Judaism just as I don't for any other religion but I see the Zionists aims as counterproductive. Jews have mainly been treated appallingly by Western peoples and up until 1948 lived harmoniously with their Christian and Muslim "Palestinian" neighbours in a Palestinian Territory.

 

[MarkyX]

Ah, the last refuge of the political scoundrel, link someone or someparty that disagrees with you to holocaust denial and anti-semitism. It's a sure fire winner.

Sorry but you fail at this one. 9/11 Mysteries uses an "expert" who believes we never landed on a moon and the holocaust never happeneded.

Then we have Loose Change, Alex Jones, Jim Fetzer, and Steven Jones. They all get their information from American Free Press. The owner of American Free Press is Willis Carto, who is a holocaust denier. The writer of the 9/11 articles, Chris Bollyn, thinks Jews are trying to take over America and they were behind 9/11 attacks.

Face it, your movement's leaders do hold hands with holocaust deniers and anti-semites.

 

[StoneWT]

Actually, they are:

Eh, I think that was more in response to people wanting a response to the trial. He tries to focus more on free speech issues and such at a conference.

 

[jon]

As well as links between Holocaust Denial and 9-11 truthers, there are also broader issues of anti-semitism and general racism in the movement. For example, there's links between truthers and anti-semitism (e.g. the false theory that the Jews working in WTC had been warned not to go to work that day) or irrational anti-Israel claims (for example, Alex Jones' unfounded claim in Terrorstorm that Israeli troops are conducting false flag terror attacks in Iraq). There are also broader issues of racism in the 'truth' movement - e.g. the common assumption that 'Arabs in caves'* couldn't have planned the events of September 11.

* actually, relatively highly educated terrorists

 

[William Rea]

Face it, your movement's leaders do hold hands with holocaust deniers and anti-semites.

It's not my failure.

It's not my movement.

It's not my task to prove any link. It is illegal in the UK to deny the Holocaust so if you have evidence to back up your claims take it to the law.

 

[Pardalis]

It's not my movement.

So why are you on the defensive?

 

[Gravy]

It's not my failure.

It's not my movement.

It's not my task to prove any link. It is illegal in the UK to deny the Holocaust so if you have evidence to back up your claims take it to the law.

It's not illegal in the U.S. to deny the Holocaust, and all the Holocaust deniers who are prominent in the "9/11 Truth Movement" that I know of are Americans. And yes, there are quite a few of them.

 

[Timble]

It's not my failure.

It's not my movement.

It's not my task to prove any link. It is illegal in the UK to deny the Holocaust so if you have evidence to back up your claims take it to the law.

I don't think it is, otherwise David Irving would have been banged up long ago, and not just in Austria

 

[Brainster]

Check out the comments on this open thread at 9-11 Blogger. Not Holocaust Denial, but certainly indicative of the general anti-Israel mood over at 9-11 Blogger:

come on, LC was all over the place! down to the "biggest gold heist in history". surely the dancing Israelis could have been mentioned... assuming we take the LC guys as honest folk, someone is definitely keen to make their movie be seen as representative of the movement. it wouldn't surprise me one whit if it was the same people behind Screw Loose Change. Point/Counterpoint to distract from the real issue of who was ultimately behind the Attack on America that according to Larry Silverstein's friend Netanyahu was good--well, not good but that would generate immediate sympathy for Israel. Pro-Israel fanatics provided the false case for war against Iraq (see Doug Feith and the Lie Factory--the Pentagon OSP). AIPAC caught spying-AGAIN. And even with Democrats in power, the House Speaker is AIPAC-loyalist Nancy "America and Israel now and forever" Pelosi. Helping to catapult the propaganda is none other than Wolf Blitzer, former reporter for the Jerusalem Post. Is it that hard to see who is really attacking America?

That comment is rated 3 (a net three more people liked the comment than disliked it). This one gets a 6:

Israel had 200 agents deported after 9/11?

Some of these agents lived just houses down from the alleged hijacker patsies? What makes you think some of these Israeli agents were not in fact among the team that rigged the towers and building 7 for demolition? Can you really see Americans doing it? I can't--no matter how much we hate each other in this country, good luck finding a crew to secretly rig a huge office building to potentially murder 30,000 or more of your fellow citizens. No, 9/11 WAS an act of war. And the only American thing about it was the fact that a gang of traitors decided to go along with it. Obviously I'm not saying that your average Israeli bears America any ill will, but the plot had its origins in a particular group of global mercenaries who did what they did to benefit themselves, their elite paymasters, and their global outposts, one of which happens to be in Israel. Sorry buddy, but it's as plain as day. This is not about the people pf America or Israel--this is about global fascists who lead both by the nose with lies, fear, and misdirection. There is no good reason to deny this so obvious reality.

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

[jon]

I don't think it is, otherwise David Irving would have been banged up long ago, and not just in Austria

Pretty much right - Holocaust denial's perfectly legal here in the UK (although there are laws against the incitement of racial hatred - so claims along the lines of 'the Holocaust never took place, therefore all Jews are evil lying scum' might fall foul of the law).

 

[William Rea]

I don't think it is, otherwise David Irving would have been banged up long ago, and not just in Austria

You are correct, it is illegal in Austria, I stand corrected.

 

[Pardalis]

William, may I ask you a question?

If Larry Silverstein wasn't a Jew, would he be less or more suspicious in your mind?

Please be honest.

 

[William Rea]

William, may I ask you a question?

If Larry Silverstein wasn't a Jew, would he be less or more suspicious in your mind?

Please be honest.

Who is Larry Silverstein, how is this relevant?

 

[Pardalis]

The owner of the WTC buildings. (you know, the 'pull it' guy)

 

[Oliver]

I love him already!

@William: Old World Trade 7 - do you know this (former) building?

 

[uk_dave]

I love him already!

@William: Old World Trade 7 - do you know this (former) building?

LOL

BTW William, the pentagon was hit too.

In case you'd missed that one.

 

[Pardalis]

I think WTC7 is very indicative of the lingering antisemitism in alot of the Truthers' mind (maybe not a full-fledged holocaust denialism in most, but indeed some inclination to believe that the Jews are somehow responsible when it comes to world events).

This is how I see a newcomer Truther's mind at work:

We have a building which fell six hours after the WTC collapse.

This event is somehow strange, since the building wasn't hit by a plane and that it wasn't reported extensively by the media (which is an honest doubt most people will have when they first learn about it).

If you look into it further, most people will find that the building suffered massive damage from the collapse of the two WTC towers and that nobody was killed in its collapsed, therefore not worthy of much TV coverage as it is peripheral to the terrorist attacks.

These people will then move on with their lives.

But alas, some will find the visual similitude with controlled demolition more convincing than the NIST prelim report and multiple eye witness testimonies and will then proceed with more research (i.e: conspiracy sites). This lingering doubt may have something to do with their own preconceived distrust in their government (Jews? Not just yet...).

While doing their "research", they will find out that the owner of the said building is of the Jewish faith (or most will come to that conclusion because of his name) and then they will learn that he said in a television interview that he said to "pull it". Of course by that he meant to pull the firefighting operations in the burning building but the new found Truthers will believe that he ordered this building to explode. Why is that? I think it's at this point a confirmation for most Truthers that 9/11 was an inside job.

After all, he is Jewish and America supports Israel...

You see, we only had a building that collapsed to start with, and now we have a massive Jewish conspiracy.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

It is illegal in the UK to deny the Holocaust so if you have evidence to back up your claims take it to the law.

No it isn't.

 

[William Rea]

No it isn't.

And I already said I stand corrected on this, as you would know if you read the thread through!