LIGO gravitational wave announcement

[RecoveringYuppy]

RY...I don't think you understand what the process is.

I'm not sure you do.

Very close to two back holes you are going to be plasma but for a different reason....near vicinity is very violent space.

Not necessarily. Tell me why you think this.

Further out you could in theory orbit the two but a long ways out

In neither case are there gravitational waves produced that we could detect.

Huh? We did detect them.

When the two black holes merged however...3 solar masses were turned from mass to energy in an instant.

Can you cite this? In everything I've seen the 3 SM were radiated before the merger.

That event produced the gravitational wave we detected .....

Are you sure? I would think the merger would be the transition point from an efficient way to emit gravitational waves (two high mass orbiting bodies) to a non-efficient way to emit them (pulsation of an object moving rapidly toward symmetry).

That event would ALSO turn your distant orbiting space ship to plasma

Why?

.....but it's not the GW turning you stardust ....it's the energy release....equivalent to 50 x the output of all the stars in the universe for a very brief moment. That's the point at which you join the stardust contingent ......but it's not the gravity wave dismembering you .....it's the energy release.

But the energy release you are citing IS Gravitational waves.

The GW is a result of the change in gravity caused by converting mass to energy on an enormous scale.....3 solar masses worth..
Your dismemberment is a result of the energy release not of effects of the gravity wave on you.

Can you cite this???? Every time I've ready the phrase "3 solar masses" it's been in regard to the energy carried away as gravitational waves.

 

[macdoc]

But the energy release you are citing IS Gravitational waves.

Not entirely

“In order to power both the gravitational wave event and the gamma-ray burst, the twin black holes must have been born close together, with an initial separation of order the size of the Earth, and merged within minutes. The newly formed single black hole then fed on the in-falling matter, consuming up to a sun’s worth of material every second and powering jets of matter that blasted outward to create the burst,” the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics said in a statement.

NASA’s Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope discovered the gamma burst just 0.4 seconds after the LIGO gravitational waves’ detection, the center said. Both events came from the same general area of the sky.

http://news.discovery.com/space/gravitational-wave-black-holes-born-from-one-star-160223.htm

 

[rjh01]

According to these guys at 1AU it would feel more like standing next to a loudspeaker, which if true is pretty awesome (if you're at a concert that is, pretty underwhelming if you're 1AU from a collapsing black hole)
https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience...lose_to_gw150914_the_black_hole_merger_would/
(I've broken the link as I'm not allowed to post them yet)

Good find and welcome to the forum. I did my duty by fixing your link.

 

[Dribble Error]

Good find and welcome to the forum. I did my duty by fixing your link.

Thanks!

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Not entirely

http://news.discovery.com/space/gravitational-wave-black-holes-born-from-one-star-160223.htm

But that isn't what you were talking about. You keep citing the 3 SM figure which is the energy contained in the gravitational waves.

And you keep attributing them to a one time abrupt loss of matter without explaining why the wave was observed to be sinusoidal. The mechanism you are describing would lead to a single step pulse.

 

[grmcdorman]

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience...lose_to_gw150914_the_black_hole_merger_would/

 

[MaartenVergu]

I knew it:
Socalled gravitational waves from LIGO could have had another cause...

 

[PhantomWolf]

I knew it:
Socalled gravitational waves from LIGO could have had another cause...

Seriously, did you actually bother to read the article, or was it just the headline?

A team of researchers with the University of Lisbon has created simulations that indicate that the gravitational waves detected by researchers with the LIGO project, and which are believed to have come about due to two black holes colliding, could just have easily come from another object such as a gravaster (objects which are believed to have their insides made of dark energy) or even a wormhole.

The paper never disputed that Gravitational Waves had been detected, but rather noted that other things could cause them, however, since both Gravastars and Wormholes are totally theoretical currently, if one of them actually caused the waves like the paper suggests, this would be an even bigger scientific discover as it would be proof that one of these currently hypothesized objects really did occur naturally in the universe. That would be a truly momentous find. Of course the greater likelihood is that it was two black holes rather then some very exotic theoretical objects that we still have yet to even prove exist.

 

[ferd burfle]

I knew it:
Socalled gravitational waves from LIGO could have had another cause...

Please tell us why you used the term "so-called" when you renamed the link.

 

[smartcooky]

I knew it:
Socalled gravitational waves from LIGO could have had another cause...

You seem to think this article implies that LIGO did not detect gravitational waves, when in fact, it simply speculated that there might be other causes of the the waves they detected; and detect them they most certainly did.

Furthermore, what the article is speculating; that the discovery might be proof of the existence of gravastars, would be an even more amazing discovery if true.

"Gravastars also could provide a mechanism for describing how dark energy accelerates the expansion of the universe. One possible hypothesis uses Hawking radiation as a means to exchange energy between the "parent" universe and the "child" universe, and so cause the rate of expansion to accelerate, but this area is under much speculation.

Gravastar formation may provide an alternate explanation for sudden and intense gamma-ray bursts throughout space."

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravastar

For mine, it appears to me that your trying to use this article to clutch at the most tenuous bunch of straws!

 

[Reality Check]

I knew it:
Socalled gravitational waves from LIGO could have had another cause...

A bit of a lie with the text that appears nowhere in that article, Maartenn100.
A proper citation is Simulations suggest other phenomenon besides black holes merging could produce gravity waves.

A team of researchers with the University of Lisbon has created simulations that indicate that the gravitational waves detected by researchers with the LIGO project, and which are believed to have come about due to two black holes colliding, could just have easily come from another object such as a gravaster (objects which are believed to have their insides made of dark energy) or even a wormhole. In their paper published in Physical Review Letters, the team describes the simulations they created, what was seen and what they are hoping to find in the future.

The paper shows that the detected gravitational waves may have came from some speculative objects (gravaster or wormhole).

 

[tusenfem]

Seriously, did you actually bother to read the article, or was it just the headline?

Do you really have to ask????

 

[carlosy]

LIGO detects another black hole crash

The biggest discovery in science this year—the observation of ripples in space-time called gravitational waves—was no fluke. For a second time, physicists working with the two massive detectors in the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO) have detected a pulse of such waves, the LIGO team reported on 15 June at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society in San Diego, California. Once again the waves emanated from the merger of two black holes, the ultraintense gravitational fields left behind when massive stars collapse into infinitesimal points. The new observation suggests that after fine-tuning, LIGO will spot dozens or even hundreds of the otherwise undetectable events each year.

...

The new observation came at 3:38.53 Coordinated Universal Time on 26 December 2015—late on Christmas day at LIGO’s detectors in Livingston, Louisiana, and Hanford, Washington. As in the first event, the detectors sensed an oscillating stretching of space-time, the signal, according to Einstein’s 
general theory of relativity, of massive objects in violent motion. Computer modeling indicated that its source was two black holes spiraling together about 1.4 billion light-years away. (LIGO researchers had seen a weaker signal on 12 October 2015 that may be a third black hole merger.)...

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/06/ligo-detects-another-black-hole-crash

 

[Steve001]

If nothing impedes the progress, how is it detected? How does it affect mass? Are they detecting the ether moving?

I'm trying to imagine something that affects mass but is not affected by mass.

A gravity wave stretches space. Just look it up for a detailed explanation.

 

[Craig B]

LIGO detects another black hole crash



http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/06/ligo-detects-another-black-hole-crash

What is the inferred frequency of these astonishing events, assuming it can be estimated from this new observation?

 

[rjh01]

What is the inferred frequency of these astonishing events, assuming it can be estimated from this new observation?

Given we have had two detected already then we can assume we will detect several every year. We should be able to detect even more if they improve the sensitivity of the devices.

 

[Craig B]

Given we have had two detected already then we can assume we will detect several every year. We should be able to detect even more if they improve the sensitivity of the devices.

it is suggested in this article that the objects responsible for the events are "primordial black holes" which may constitute part of the mysterious "dark matter". Does that seem at all plausible?

 

[Steve001]

Mosh pits' in star clusters a likely source of LIGO's first black holes

Northwestern University astrophysicists have predicted history. In a new study, the scientists show their theoretical predictions last year were correct: The historic merger of two massive black holes detected Sept. 14, 2015, could easily have been formed through dynamic interactions in the star-dense core of an old globular cluster.

These binary black holes are born in the chaotic "mosh pit" of a globular cluster, kicked out of the cluster and then eventually merge into one black hole. This theory, known as dynamical formation, is one of two recognized main channels for forming the binary black holes detected by the Advanced LIGO (Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory).

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-06-mosh-pits-star-clusters-source.html#jCp

 

[Samson]

it is suggested in this article that the objects responsible for the events are "primordial black holes" which may constitute part of the mysterious "dark matter". Does that seem at all plausible?

It sounds great, but are there enough of the suckers? It is infinitely more attractive than something 5 times as heavy as stuff you drop on your foot, but completely non detectable.

 

[Reality Check]

it is suggested in this article that the objects responsible for the events are "primordial black holes" which may constitute part of the mysterious "dark matter". Does that seem at all plausible?

The first detection was above the mass usually expected for stellar black holes - see On the Maximum Mass of Stellar Black Holes which has a limit of 30 solar masses in favorable conditions. So suggesting primordial black holes with a higher mass was plausible.

The second detection which the letter did not know about is closer to what we expect for stellar black holes. This is not hopeful for a "lot of 30-mass events".

The evidence against this is that we have looked for Massive Compact Halo Objects including black holes in the halo of the Milky Way and not found enough to explain all dark matter.

ETA: One thing I have not seen is an explanation about why the primordial black holes would have masses like ~30 solar masses. My expectation would be a range of masses including primordial black holes that would evaporate by Hawking radiation with detectable signatures. The constraints on primordial black hole mass seem to rule out them out as dark matter: Black Holes As Dark Matter? Here's Why The Idea Falls Apart