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Life in Jerusalem

Skeptic said:
Israel is about 20%+ non-Jewish. Arabic (like Hebrew) is an official language in Israel. In the last 20 years, due to privatization, the number of Arabs who hold professional jobs had skyrocketed. There are about 10 (don't remember exactly) Arab and non-Jewish members of the Israeli Knesset. I myself live in a "mixed" town where Arabs, like Jews, hold all jobs -- I, personally, know Arab street cleaners... and Arab deans at universities. When a relative got in an accident and had to go with me to the emergency room, the physician on duty was an Arab. More details here. If Israel's purpose is to keep the Jews unsullied by the inferior Arabs, it's doing a really lousy job.

Oh, and you said about your views having no relationship to Matt Giwer and other holocaust-denying folk's views. Well, the idea that Israel is somehow a "master race" state where non-Jews must be kept apart from the "superior" Jews is obviously his view (see also numerous articles on his web site). By the way, while on this subject: Giwer, like yourself, think Chomsky's analysis of the middle east is insightful and accurate.

I ask again: doesn't it bother you that your views about Israel, Chomsky, etc. so often coincide with those of holocaust deniers and lunatic conspiracy theorists?
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cool.... then you would have no problems with dropping your nations quaint practices of discrimination then?.....ooops......no, its ok to pound your chest and proclaim you have the happiest cleanest best fed 2nd class citizens in the world!!! some of them, as you point out, hold down propper jobs!

you are an apologist for racist practices which includes your usual "arn't our arabs well looked after" threads....

you want to be a modern democracy skeptic? Then drop the stupid practices of distinguishing "arab israelis" and "jewish israelis" decide if you are a democracy or not...
 
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Paranormal Inquirer said:
Is that [rockets as retaliation for occupation] really a valid excuse?
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Idunno what "valid" means for you, but it is understandable in comparison to:
- UK attacking Falkland Islands because Argentina tried to seize the land
- any country in the world attacking anyone who tries to seize their land

The current defense strategy of Finland against Russia is based on allowing them to enter if they will (as this cannot be realistically prevented), and then making their presence intolerable and expensive by a constant guerrilla war. That is what they taught me in the army, and it made sense to me.

This strategy tends to work better in countries with a vast and thick forestation, which Palestine isn't much blessed with.
 
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Paranormal Inquirer said:
Is that really a valid excuse?
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Jews living where they don't want them. Deserves some random rocket firing into Jewish schools, doesn't it?

Anyway, for Hamas, it is constantly stressed that all of Israel is "occupied land" and an illegal "settlement". So, in a perverse way, JJM is correct: Hamas does see firing rockets into Israeli cities as "retaliation" against the "occupation" -- that is, against Israel existing at all.

But as the words are used in the usual sense, no, there is no connection between the occupation or settlements and Hamas' rockets: Hamas vowed to never accept Israel in any borders, with or without settlements, without or without occupation, but to fight on until it's destroyed; and to do it by the way of terrorism -- of killing any Jew they can get their hands on, including women and children, naturally, in any way they can.

Sorry, JJM, you're simply completely wrong on the facts here.
 
Skeptic said:
Jews living where they don't want them. Deserves some random rocket firing into Jewish schools, doesn't it?

Anyway, for Hamas, it is constantly stressed that all of Israel is "occupied land" and an illegal "settlement". So, in a perverse way, JJM is correct: Hamas does see firing rockets into Israeli cities as "retaliation" against the "occupation" -- that is, against Israel existing at all.

But as the words are used in the usual sense, no, there is no connection between the occupation or settlements and Hamas' rockets: Hamas vowed to never accept Israel in any borders, with or without settlements, without or without occupation, but to fight on until it's destroyed; and to do it by the way of terrorism -- of killing any Jew they can get their hands on, including women and children, naturally, in any way they can.

Sorry, JJM, you're simply completely wrong on the facts here.
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Exactly. I find it incredible anyone can defend a group that openly states that at least a part of their official charter was inspired by the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion".
 
Yet more evidence that, when it comes to Israel, there simply is no difference between certain sections of the "progressive" camp and the holocaust deniers/ 9-11 truthers / jihadis.

The fact that people who see themselves as pro-peace, pro-equality, anti-racist, pro-women-and-gay-rights, etc., can support Hamas reminds me of the race of creatures in Douglas Adams' books who lived on a planet, like Venus, surrounded by clouds.

Once rockets sent above the clouds brought back the news there is more to the universe than the clouds, this caused them a psychological breakdown, ruining completely their self-centered worldview. So they go forth from their planet singing songs of peace, happiness, and destruction of all other life forms.

The folks who go around with signs like "Queers for Palestine" or "Feminists against Israel" are a real-life example of that: calling for peace, equality, justice, and a second holocaust.
 
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Skeptic said:
Yet more evidence that, when it comes to Israel, there simply is no difference between certain sections of the "progressive" camp and the holocaust deniers/ 9-11 truthers / jihadis.
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what's this got to do with Life in Jerusalem?
 
Skeptic said:
Hamas does see firing rockets into Israeli cities as "retaliation" against the "occupation" -- that is, against Israel existing at all.
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By the way, it is not Hamas that usually fires the rockets.

Skeptic said:
there is no connection between the occupation or settlements and Hamas' rockets:
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Because also other connections exist, you conclude that this connection certainly doesn't exist or have any effect whatsoever. Not valid science my bro.

Skeptic said:
Hamas vowed to never accept Israel in any borders, with or without settlements, without or without occupation, but to fight on until it's destroyed; and to do it by the way of terrorism
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X% of Palestinians support Hamas, but the said percentage of Palestinians is not behaving in real life as described.
 
JJM 777 said:
By the way, it is not Hamas that usually fires the rockets.
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Hamas provides the weapons since they control the smuggling routes that supply the mortars, missiles and the materials to make missiles.

Combine Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and then you have the majority of those who fire the rockets/missiles, mortars and terrorist incursions into Israel proper from Gaza, and terrorist operations in the WB as well.

Because also other connections exist, you conclude that this connection certainly doesn't exist or have any effect whatsoever. Not valid science my bro.
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There's science to terrorism now? News to me.

X% of Palestinians support Hamas, but the said percentage of Palestinians is not behaving in real life as described.
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You have to look at those Palestinians who support the approach of Hamas and their like-minded terrorist organizations, not the minority who actually carry out said operations. How is this even an argument to begin with?
 
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Using this sort of "reasoning", it is totally unfair to call Nazi Germany "aggressive" or saying it "started WWII by invading Poland", since only a small number of Germans - much less than 1%, in fact - actually made the decisions about mobilizing the armed forces or starting the invasion.
 
Um, I've always kinda wondered, why don't they just declare Jerusalem a separate holy land like Rome is? You know, make it it's own country not owned by anyone else but protected by all the different religions that consider it holy. Wouldn't that solve at least a few problems?
 
Weak Kitten said:
Um, I've always kinda wondered, why don't they just declare Jerusalem a separate holy land like Rome is? You know, make it it's own country not owned by anyone else but protected by all the different religions that consider it holy. Wouldn't that solve at least a few problems?
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Because they can't get over the tit-for-tat.
It's very telling to those who use reason.
 
Weak Kitten said:
Um, I've always kinda wondered, why don't they just declare Jerusalem a separate holy land like Rome is? You know, make it it's own country not owned by anyone
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UN decided so in 1948: they divided the land to Israel, Palestine, and Jerusalem as an international neutral zone under UN control.

Politically it has not been very popular on either side, because both parties take gerat pride in the idea that the ancient and world-famous Jerusalem would be the capital of _their_ country.
 
Skeptic said:
Using this sort of "reasoning", it is totally unfair to call Nazi Germany "aggressive" or saying it "started WWII by invading Poland", since only a small number of Germans - much less than 1%, in fact - actually made the decisions about mobilizing the armed forces or starting the invasion.
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Exactly so.

Americans are not morally responsible for dropping two A-bombs in Japan, their President is.

Iraqis are not responsible for a bloody war against Iran, Kuwait etc., their leader Saddam was.

Many of the greatest problems and political disasters in the world are based on the fact that power is given to a leader and then the leader alone decides. Politics would be more stable if all biggest decisions were made by referendum.
 
Weak Kitten said:
Um, I've always kinda wondered, why don't they just declare Jerusalem a separate holy land like Rome is? You know, make it it's own country not owned by anyone else but protected by all the different religions that consider it holy. Wouldn't that solve at least a few problems?
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How many opposing religions in Rome? Besides the largest mosque in Europe being built in Rome (wahhabist), it has little influence within Rome and little claim, if any, to Rome for religious reasons. Rome is Catholic, ruled by Catholics, ie papacy.

The right to practice ones religion is one of the freedoms protected in Israel, as it is in Rome. Strangely enough though, Islam, to my knowledge, is not officially recognized in Italy proper as a religion.

The Temple mount has been under the jurisdiction of the Waqf, unfortunately, since 1967. The issue here is that when the Palestinians declare their state, they will attempt to claim the voided '67 armistice lines as their capital of E. J'lem, which includes the Temple Mount. This will undoubtedly cause strife and will set back freedom of religion by several hundred years.

Currently, the only thing not observed is J'lem as a separate entity (not ruled over by a dominant religion as the case with Rome).
 
bigjelmapro said:
How many opposing religions in Rome? Besides the largest mosque in Europe being built in Rome (wahhabist), it has little influence within Rome and little claim, if any, to Rome for religious reasons. Rome is Catholic, ruled by Catholics, ie papacy.

The right to practice ones religion is one of the freedoms protected in Israel, as it is in Rome. Strangely enough though, Islam, to my knowledge, is not officially recognized in Italy proper as a religion.
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The pope is back to praying for the Jews to see the error of their ways and sign up with him.
 
Back with more irrelevant posts I see, AUP. Don't even understand why you bother pressing the 'quote' button.
 
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