Libertarian promotes free energy device

[catsmate]

Looking at this page from that site, and the spreadsheet it links to, I see that it varies considerably from state to state.

The highest consumption is in Louisiana, who consume an average of about 41.8 kWh per day (paying 8.37 cents per kWh), while the lowest average consumption is in Maine, who consume about 17.7 kWh per day (paying 14.6 cents per kWh). I suspect that differences in price might be a factor in the difference in consumption.

Maybe that's why average electricity consumption is so low here in Australia (national average of 17.8 kWh per day), electricity tends to be more expensive. People may be more reluctant to buy high-power appliances (such as air-conditioners), or more inclined to use power-saving alternatives (such as hanging out the washing to dry instead of using the tumble-dryer).

From that spreadsheet, it looks like the average American household uses about 30.1 kWh per day.

Price is very likely a factor, though I suspect weather/climate is a factor, especially between Maine and Louisiana. When I saw the numbers I assumed that one average Maine residents used non-electrical heating whereas Louisianans used electrically powered AC. However that's just a guess.

Well from that source:



The former is a possibility, the latter not at all



There's no need, the free energy sources aren't going to be there

Indeed, highly secure wallets filled with worthless bitcoins is a real possibility.

Well just because you work at MIT doesn't mean you're not a loony.

Peter L. Hagelstein is an associate professor at MIT. His continued belief in cold fusion and his ongoing research into it has allegedly resulted in his not receiving a full professor position and losing his lab

I cannot find evidence of Mitchell Scwartz having tenure at MIT.

Schwartz is an MD with no full time MIT position.

 

[Horatius]

OMG - more lunacy from this jerk:

http://www.libertariannews.org/2014/02/22/radical-disruptive-change-is-imminent/

This time he's claiming that MIT professors are actually putting out courses in this nonsense.

This guy needs to be locked up in the loony bin.

Okay, seriously: What is it about Blacklight that makes you think "They should have a prototype completed and operational soon."? They've been claiming to have signed contracts to build an operational power plant every three or four years for pretty much their entire existence, and have never once shown any follow up on those claims. Even now, their new alleged free energy device seems to be completely unrelated to their earlier claimed devices. What is it about these guys that doesn't scream "SCAM!!!" to you?

 

[DavidS]

What I love best about the latest BLP scam is the notion that something which can generate 10MW from a device one foot on a side can only be demonstrated to be working by doing precise measurements in carefully controlled lab conditions, and not from, say, the thing melting through the lab table...

<shrug> If that power leaves the breadbox as work, why would it raise the breadbox temperature?

SLOT appeals should consider:
a) What basis to treat the breadbox as a heat engine?
b) Do FLOT felonies supercede SLOT misdemeanors?

I personally own numerous devices about that size that can produce multiple kW, though not MW, without getting much hotter, because that power is exported from the device as work rather than as heat. My devices a certifiably SLOT-compliant heat engines, accomplishing the mandated heat rejection long before the power output as work. Alas, investors have been reluctant to give me capital to develop what WalMart already sells under the trade name "battery".

But, yeah... those who claim power was generated should be able to find that energy again when it's gotten to where it went, not just meter reading rumors that it passed by on its way there.

Alternatively, power that wanders away without putting work or heat into something identifiable is "free energy" only in the sense of paying for what you get.

 

[michaelsuede]

Okay, seriously: What is it about Blacklight that makes you think "They should have a prototype completed and operational soon."? ... What is it about these guys that doesn't scream "SCAM!!!" to you?

I don't know.

Perhaps it's the half dozen independent teams of scientists that have successfully replicated their experiments?

Perhaps its the two hour long equipment demonstration video that contains discharge experiments, calorimetry experiments and mass spectrometry experiments?

Perhaps its the fact they have already secured licensing with at least seven utilities companies for the use of their technology?

Perhaps its because Mills' quantum theory has a better track record of predictive success than the standard model?

Take your pick.

I'm not sure what people here are so afraid of. When independent scientists, with MOUNTAINS of published papers between them, all agree on the validity of Blacklight's claims, I'm inclined to believe them.

 

[Ladewig]

I don't know.

Perhaps it's the half dozen independent teams of scientists that have successfully replicated their experiments?

Perhaps its the two hour long equipment demonstration video that contains discharge experiments, calorimetry experiments and mass spectrometry experiments?

My physics is a bit weak.
Why would mass spectrometry experiments be of any use at all in determining the validity of a claim that a small box can produce 50x the power input into it?

Also, why would a demonstration video take two hours. All that needs to be done is to show a small amount of power going in and a huge amount of power coming out.

Perhaps its the fact they have already secured licensing with at least seven utilities companies for the use of their technology?

Do the utility companies themselves agree that these licenses have been secured? Are there press releases from the utility companies confirming these assertions? Do the accounting books show how much money was paid to secure these licenses?

I'm not sure what people here are so afraid of. When independent scientists, with MOUNTAINS of published papers between them, all agree on the validity of Blacklight's claims, I'm inclined to believe them.

And I am not sure why you think we are afraid. This type of scam has been used to take money off of victims for over four decades. Someone comes along with the exact same claims and is expected to be taken seriously? Come now.

 

[marting]

I don't know if it's the frothy stock market and seeing everyone around getting rich but there seems like folks are coming out with a lot of really extraordinary claims these days.

 

[michaelsuede]

My physics is a bit weak.
Why would mass spectrometry experiments be of any use at all in determining the validity of a claim that a small box can produce 50x the power input into it?

Also, why would a demonstration video take two hours. All that needs to be done is to show a small amount of power going in and a huge amount of power coming out.

Mills was responding to critics who claimed that the calorimetry tests could be the result of a non-novel process. Watch the video.

Do the utility companies themselves agree that these licenses have been secured? Are there press releases from the utility companies confirming these assertions? Do the accounting books show how much money was paid to secure these licenses?

Yes.

http://www.blacklightpower.com/press/

And I am not sure why you think we are afraid. This type of scam has been used to take money off of victims for over four decades. Someone comes along with the exact same claims and is expected to be taken seriously? Come now.

If Mills is correct, it will mean a lot of lost jobs and destroyed egos for the academics in here.

 

[Giordano]

Mills was responding to critics who claimed that the calorimetry tests could be the result of a non-novel process. Watch the video.



Yes.

http://www.blacklightpower.com/press/



If Mills is correct, it will mean a lot of lost jobs and destroyed egos for the academics in here.

I can't help but notice that your links, including independent confirmations of utility contracts, all go through the Blacklight site. The Perkins- Elmer "report" actually appears to be a test done by the Blacklight personnel at the Perkins-Elmer facility than a truly independent report. Do I have this wrong?

But thanks, the Blacklight press release site assures me that if they progress at the speed they have achieved so far, I need not worry about my job and ego given I will be dead in 100 years. .

 

[Brian-M]

Perhaps it's the half dozen independent teams of scientists that have successfully replicated their experiments?

Perhaps its the two hour long equipment demonstration video that contains discharge experiments, calorimetry experiments and mass spectrometry experiments?

There's only one thing that needs to be done to demonstrate the effectiveness of a device that claims to produce more energy than it consumes.

It's pretty simple, just show the device producing excess power without consuming power from any external source.

For example, if a prototype machine is able to power a 100W light bulb while consuming only 20W of power from a benchtop power supply, then replace the 100W light bulb with a combination of an 80W light bulb and a second 20W power supply.

You can then disconnect the original power-supply, and have the device power itself from the new power supply without consuming power from any external source.

Have they done any experiments like this that we can see?

 

[Horatius]

I can't help but notice that your links, including independent confirmations of utility contracts, all go through the Blacklight site. The Perkins- Elmer "report" actually appears to be a test done by the Blacklight personnel at the Perkins-Elmer facility than a truly independent report. Do I have this wrong?

No, you're not wrong. When you look into it, every "independent" verification of the BLP claims has their own people all over it.

But thanks, the Blacklight press release site assures me that if they progress at the speed they have achieved so far, I need not worry about my job and ego given I will be dead in 100 years. .

Indeed. That page he linked to demonstrates exactly my point: the most recent "license" announcement is almost exactly two years old, and there has been no follow-up whatsoever in that time. If any one of these companies was producing even one watt of power using their process, you can bet it would be all over the BLP site, but there is nothing.

But I suppose he's answered my question. He's convinced that BLP is The Real Deal because he believes everything they say, without question.

 

[michaelsuede]

LOL

This forum cracks me up.

 

[The Don]

LOL

This forum cracks me up.

I guess we will know whether this prediction...

By this time next year, I predict there will be fully anonymized bitcoin wallets and abundant free energy sources.

Those two things pretty much make the petro-dollar obsolete.

...is accurate in a year or so.

Your prediction regarding the exponential rise in the price of silver was inaccurate.

 

[The Don]

Indeed. That page he linked to demonstrates exactly my point: the most recent "license" announcement is almost exactly two years old, and there has been no follow-up whatsoever in that time. If any one of these companies was producing even one watt of power using their process, you can bet it would be all over the BLP site, but there is nothing.

But I suppose he's answered my question. He's convinced that BLP is The Real Deal because he believes everything they say, without question.

Geogreen, one licensee, makes no reference to Blacklight generation but a lot of reference to hydroelectric.

http://www.geogreen.it/En/PowerStation/Hydroelectric.aspx

Self production

http://www.geogreen.it/En/PowerStation/Self.aspx

and cogeneration

http://www.geogreen.it/En/PowerStation/Cogeneration.aspx

maybe they've just been too busy to get around to building the Blacklight unit

 

[catsmate]

I don't know.

This is indeed true.

Perhaps it's the half dozen independent teams of scientists that have successfully replicated their experiments?

Except this hasn't actually happened.

Perhaps its the two hour long equipment demonstration video that contains discharge experiments, calorimetry experiments and mass spectrometry experiments?

Wow, a video.

Perhaps its the fact they have already secured licensing with at least seven utilities companies for the use of their technology?

Perhaps its because Mills' quantum theory has a better track record of predictive success than the standard model?

Utter rubbish.

I'm not sure what people here are so afraid of.

Sigh. It's not that we're "afraid", it's that we understand science rather better than you and are less ideologically blinkered

When independent scientists, with MOUNTAINS of published papers between them, all agree on the validity of Blacklight's claims, I'm inclined to believe them.

Do let us know when this happens.

 

[Horatius]

LOL

This forum cracks me up.

You know, I'd say, "The feeling is mutual", but really, all I feel is a vague sense of sadness. You just go right ahead believing all of BLP's lies, and continue ignoring their utter failure to ever produce any energy for anyone, ever.

 

[Ladewig]

From what I can tell, most of the utility licenses are along the lines of "if we use our devices to deliver X Mw to you, will you buy it from us?"

........
I will not be spending two hours of my time watching the video. As the old saying goes, "I do not need to eat the whole apple to know that it is rotten."

............
Michaelsuede, will you be investing money in this project?

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

<shrug> If that power leaves the breadbox as work, why would it raise the breadbox temperature?

Why, indeed? Consider, for instance, BLP's own description of the process:

Our safe, non-polluting power-producing system catalytically converts the hydrogen of the H2O-based solid fuel into a non-polluting product, lower-energy state hydrogen called “Hydrino”, by allowing the electrons to fall to smaller radii around the nucleus. The energy release of H2O fuel, freely available in the humidity in the air, is one hundred times that of an equivalent amount of high-octane gasoline. The power is in the form of plasma, a supersonic expanding gaseous ionized physical state of the fuel comprising essentially positive ions and free electrons that can be converted directly to electricity using highly efficient magnetohydrodynamic converters.

You do understand what they're saying, right? Water becomes plasma, and the plasma is run through an MHD generator which produces 10 MW of electrical power in less than 1 cubic foot.

Simply replacing the consumed H2O regenerates the fuel. Using readily-available components, BlackLight has developed a system engineering design of an electric generator that is closed except for the addition of H2O fuel and generates ten million watts of electricity, enough to power ten thousand homes. Remarkably, the device is less than a cubic foot in volume.

So, the plasma "expands supersonically" and - wait a minute. Why does it expand supersonically unless it's hot? Radiation pressure? Never mind. So it then expands through the "highly efficient magnetohydrodynamic converters" (said converters being made from "readily-available components") - and then what? The generator "is closed except for the addition of H2O fuel ", so it apparently has no exhaust. OK, so let's say that they mean than no external power is applied, and the MHD generators do have an exhaust. What can we say about this? For starters, MHD generators have a maximum efficiency less than 25% (MHD generation plants can have much higher efficiency, but that's because they use the hot exhaust from the MHD units to heat conventional steam generators). So the exhaust must contain at least 30 MW of, well, something. Sound? Well, no - a B52 at cruise puts out about a megawatt of acoustic energy. Light? 30 MW of continuous emission is really going to make the place bright, don't you think? Or give everybody a good tan if it's UV. And it can't be heat. So what's left? I know, neutrinos!

And then there's the "fuel replacement" - note that only the "H2O fuel" is replaced. Apparently the catalyst remains (as any good catalyst should). So how much is needed? Well, the fuel energy density is 100 times that of gasoline (36 MJ / L), so 10 MW needs only about 3 mL / sec. How, exactly, does that fuel get delivered? We know, from the above, that the reaction is producing a total of about 40 MW, with 10 MW siphoned off from the gas flow through the generator. Our 3 mL of water has a mass of 3 g. The kinetic energy (40 MJ / sec) of the gas stream allows the velocity to be derived from mv² / 2, which works out to about 163 km / sec. Yup, that's km, not meters. "supersonic expanding" doesn't really do it justice. And the exhaust velocity is about 140 km / sec. Given the low mass rate, the exhaust thrust is only about 400 N, but I still wouldn't want to work around one.

Always assuming, of course, that no heat is involved.

SLOT appeals should consider:
a) What basis to treat the breadbox as a heat engine?

What basis not to? What part of "supersonic expanding plasma" suggests otherwise? A good fraction of those energetic protons and electrons are going to be absorbed by the fuel and catalyst, and that won't raise the temperature?Or do you see the process as being like some sort of particle beam, with all the plasma being intrinsically directed at the generator? Since the "H2O fuel" is combined with the secret magic catalyst (shades of Rossi!), some of that plasma must be formed within the mass of fuel (and that fuel is solid, remember?). So how does it expand supersonically without blowing the fuel mass apart?

Oh, for a face-palm icon.

 

[Giordano]

Michael Suede,

As I understand it, you have two opportunities to make money off of this: (1) if it is true and you will obtain power this way, and/or (2) you have a financial link to Blacklight and will make money by convincing others. The (1) option seems very unlikely. Multiple people here have explained to you the extreme unlikelihood of this. If you continue to think your ideas are smarter than what has been told to you by other people in a better position to understand the science, fine. You have been warned. The (2) option would be much more disturbing to me and I hope it is not true. Of course this directs the nature of my posts: if you already know (1) is unlikely, there is no reason to explain anything to you and my posts should be directed at others,

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

Do the utility companies themselves agree that these licenses have been secured? Are there press releases from the utility companies confirming these assertions? Do the accounting books show how much money was paid to secure these licenses?

Yes.

http://www.blacklightpower.com/press/

No. Ladewig specifically asked about what the customers say, not what BLP says. Referring to BLP press releases is disingenuous at best. On another post you asked,

Perhaps its the fact they have already secured licensing with at least seven utilities companies for the use of their technology?

So let's look at the BLP press releases:

Customer 1 - Estacado Energy Services, Inc (2008)

" In a non-exclusive agreement, BLP has licensed Estacado to use the BlackLight Process and certain BLP energy technology for the production of thermal or electric power."

No longer in business.

Customer 2 - Farmer's Electric Cooperative in New Mexico (2009)

" In a non-exclusive agreement, BLP has licensed Farmers’ Electric to use the BlackLight Process and certain BLP energy technology for the production of thermal or electric power. "

It's amazing what you can find out if you just pick up the phone. FECNM's agreement involved no money at all until a demo unit could be delivered. That was 5 years ago, and still no unit. The guy I talked with says that he occasionally logs on to their web site, just to see what they're promising these days.

Customer 3 - Unidentified

Customer 4 - Unidentified

Customer 5 - Unidentified

Customer 6 - Akridge Energy LLC (2009)

"In a non-exclusive agreement, BLP has granted Akridge Energy a license to use the BlackLight Process and certain BLP energy technology for the production of electric power in Maryland, Virginia and the District of Columbia."

No longer in business.

Customer 7 - GEOENERGIE SpA (2010)

"In a non-exclusive agreement, BLP has licensed GEOENERGIE SpA to use the BlackLight Process and certain BLP energy technology for the production of thermal or electric power in Italy. "

Note the similarity to the other announcements. Almost certainly the same terms - no product, no money.

And no further mention of the subject, either by BLP or GEOENERGIE. For 4 years.

So, michaelsuede, why not respond honestly to ladewig?

 

[Ladewig]

Michael Suede,

As I understand it, you have two opportunities to make money off of this: (1) if it is true and you will obtain power this way, and/or (2) you have a financial link to Blacklight and will make money by convincing others.

Ewwww.

I really hadn't thought of that, so I poked around the linked article and found quotes like this one

Here’s a video that apparently shows the device being used to power an industrial facility in Brazil. This video was published on October 3, 2013, not too long after the device went on sale. If this is a hoax, it’s a pretty damn elaborate one.

The video shows what looks like a standard electrical junction box on a factory floor with a label on the outside. "Elaborate"? Not hardly. There is no proof that anything was being powered by space-age technology. Michaelsuede may have his faults, but I am convinced he is saavy enough and smart enough not to seriously believe that this video is evidence of anything. Hence the use of the weasel word "apparently."

Many libertarians use the phrase caveat emptor to indicate that informed and knowledgeable buyers can regulate a market more efficiently than a government can. They do not use the phrase to mean "let's ****-over some rubes."