• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Liberal or Concervative

Grammatron

Philosopher
G
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
5,444
These terms get thrown around a lot on this forum and in the media to the point where I lost track of these mean or suppose to mean. My question is really simple, who are liberals and who are conservatives in USA and how do you define one, is it action, and is it believes?
 
While we're at it, how you define "leftists" and "rightists"?
 
It used to be as simple as liberals wanted to change things and concervatives what it to stay the same. Now everyone wants to change things it's just in what direction they want the country to move.
 
Well, for quite a while I was, using the REAL meaning of the word, "conservative", because I thought things were on a pretty even keel and there wasn't a lot of need to change things drastically. Now that the reactionary radicals (meaning the present "conservative" lot that, despite their chosen title, want radical chage in a reactionary direction) have had their say, I am probably a bit of a liberal, I'd prefer to get Miranda back, get the bill of rights back, get religion out of public education, etc...

What is a liberal? These days, there aren't many, most are people like myself, who just want to get back to an even keel.

But then again, even as a conservative type, I'm moderate, because change IS necessary, just not berzerk, radical changes, and that applies in either direction.

Presently, with the exception of a few staunch red types, whose ox has been gored to death by the realities of communism and extreme socialism, almost all of the radicals nowdays are of the reactionary, fascist type, who want radical change in the direction of uniformity, religious intolerance, and government intervention into private life.
 
Liberal and Conservative.

In broad sweeping terms, I've always seen liberalism as acting towards change and conservatism as the preserving the status quo. Conservatives, for example, want to maintain "marriage" for what it has always traditionally been. Liberals want to change marriage to be more broadly applicable (e.g. to gays).

Traditionally, conservatives tend to be for less government "interference" in our daily lives, while liberals tend to want more government "participation". I'm not exactly sure how that fits into above definitions or even if it's even applicable anymore.
 
They do get thrown around a lot, and like many things (including "race") they only exist in concept. Nobody meets all the "definitions" of liberal or conservative. In the US, there are some things you can say about liberals in general, but I don't know of any of the US posters here who could be described as "liberal" who meet them all.
  • Anti gun
  • Pro-choice
  • Pro affirmative action
  • Pro gradational taxes
  • Pro social services
  • Anti death penalty
  • Favor drug decriminilization
  • Anti war
  • Pro free speech (especially as regards flag burning)
  • Anti established religion
  • Pro "new age religion"
  • Pro labor
  • Anti globalization
  • Pro immigration
  • Pro homosexual rights
  • Pro environment

And here are some traditionally conservative values:

  • Pro gun rights
  • Anti abortion
  • Anti affirmative action
  • Favor flat tax or user fees (and much smaller amounts).
  • Cut back social services (especially welfare).
  • Pro death penalty
  • Tough on drugs
  • Pro military (and using them frequently)
  • Anti free speech (especially regarding "badmouthing country")
  • Pro established religion
  • Anti "cults" (like pagans and hippies)
  • Pro business
  • Pro globalization
  • Anti immigration (mostly illegal immigration)
  • Anti homosexual rights
  • Business more important than environment

There are probably a few more. In addition, liberals tend to be Democrats or Green Party and conservatives tend to be Republican or Libertarian (though Libertarians may be very liberal in some ways, especially with regard to drug laws.)

I'm sure a lot of people will argue with these lists. Well, that's probably why Grammatron started the thread.
 
jj said:
(meaning the present "conservative" lot that, despite their chosen title, want radical chage in a reactionary direction)
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "reactionary"?
 
Upchurch said:
Traditionally, conservatives tend to be for less government "interference" in our daily lives, while liberals tend to want more government "participation". I'm not exactly sure how that fits into above definitions or even if it's even applicable anymore.
Click to expand...

Well, that's my point. The present self-labelled "conservatives" are very much into government participation. They want the goverment to regulate what we read, write, say, hear, see, and do. They want a camera in our bedrooms in order to regulate behaviors there so that they conform to a particular set of religious beliefs. They want to make religious belief even more normative, by giving government money to "faith-based initiatives". They want to regulate science in the name of religion (stem cells, creationism, global warming), they want to return women to chattel status (abortion, childcare issues), in short, the present "conservatives" want government intrusion into every aspect of life.

How that works with the classical view is indeed hard to resolve.

By the present day parties, Goldwater would be almost too liberal for the Democrats. That's just an indication of just how looney-right this country has gone.
 
don't trust the dictionary when it comes to political terminology.

let's stick with the basics :

liberal :

1- Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.

2- Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.


conserve :

1- To protect from loss or harm; preserve: calls to conserve our national heritage in the face of bewildering change.
To use carefully or sparingly, avoiding waste: kept the thermostat lower to conserve energy.

2- To keep (a quantity) constant through physical or chemical reactions or evolutionary changes.


www.dictionary.com
 
That a person can be classified “liberal” and still support infringements on personal rights, such as high taxes and "gun control", is another thing that really doesn’t make sense. Furthermore, how can a "liberal", who is suppose to be against racism and discrimination, support affirmative action? I guess there really are hypocrites everywhere.
 
Nie Trink Wasser said:
don't trust the dictionary when it comes to political terminology.
[/url]
Click to expand...

So, we should trust your straw men instead because you say so?

What an extraordinary claim. Have you any extraordinary evidence to support that?
 
Tricky said:

Yeah? Well only chickenhawks have right wings! :p
Click to expand...
That's good. But I was only quoting Birch Barlowe, the Simpson's Rush Limbaugh from the time Sideshow Bob ran for Mayor. That was the title of his book.

There's also a really old Bloom County cartoon where the Moral Majority guy is berating Opus about "left-wingers" and Opus looks at his left wing and says something like "Maybe they're not too fond of you either."
 
Tricky said:
Anti globalization

Pro globalization
Click to expand...
Hey, Trick? Are you sure you have these in the right lists? It seems to me, at least currently, like these should be switched. Consider the current opinions of each party concerning the U.N.

Maybe that's just one exception. I dunno.
 
jj said:


So, we should trust your straw men instead because you say so?

What an extraordinary claim. Have you any extraordinary evidence to support that?
Click to expand...

wipe your mouth off, you made a mess.
 
Upchurch said:
Hey, Trick? Are you sure you have these in the right lists? It seems to me, at least currently, like these should be switched. Consider the current opinions of each party concerning the U.N.

Maybe that's just one exception. I dunno.
Click to expand...

Depends on your perspective. Chomsky talks about this, actually.

"The left" is anti-globalization in that they're anti-corporate-globalization. But they're "pro-globalization" in that they want increased communication, goodwill, international development, etc. around the world.
 
Upchurch said:
Hey, Trick? Are you sure you have these in the right lists? It seems to me, at least currently, like these should be switched. Consider the current opinions of each party concerning the U.N.

Maybe that's just one exception. I dunno.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that "in favor of the UN" is what I would call "globalization". I'm more referring to much of the world's assets being owned or controlled by mega-corporations. That's what the crowds, most of whom would fit the loose definition of "liberal" were against in the protests against the World Trade Organization.
 
Cleon said:

"The left" is anti-globalization in that they're anti-corporate-globalization. But they're "pro-globalization" in that they want increased communication, goodwill, international development, etc. around the world.
Click to expand...
Ah, I did not know that. That's more in-line with my perception of the two parties.

You're just a wealth of information today, Cleon!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom