Moderated Legitimate 9/11 Questions

KreeL said:
Good thread, tam.

How did the Naudet Brothers know where to be, all over and outside the WTC, to catch everything on film?
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They didn't.

ETA: Actually, better question... What makes you think they knew?
 
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Reheat said:
Think about what the attitude of passengers would have been had REAL SECURITY been implemented in US Airports. People complain loudly (even now), so it's easy to imagine what the uproar would have been if stricter security measures had been implemented then.
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This is an important point to remember and expand on.

Imagine a situation where someone at the FBI or CIA knew ahead of time that terrorists were planning to hijack airplanes for use as guided missiles, but didn't know the time, target or perpetrators.

In a pre-9/11 world, how would you realistically implement preventative airport security measures? Without revealing knowledge of the plan, any attempt to effectively tighten security would get huge pushback from both the public and industry (airlines, airports etc). If you reveal knowledge of the plan you risk public panic, economic repercussions and convince the perpetrators to choose another attack vector.

Even in a post-9/11 world, many of the security measures we see at airports today is mostly reactive and meant to ease the public, not preventative (read back issues of Bruce Schneier's Crypto-Gram for the often frightening truth). True security is much harder than most people realize. The defense has to win every single time - the attacker has to win just once.
 
Mr.D said:
Even in a post-9/11 world, many of the security measures we see at airports today is mostly reactive and meant to ease the public, not preventative (read back issues of Bruce Schneier's Crypto-Gram for the often frightening truth). True security is much harder than most people realize. The defense has to win every single time - the attacker has to win just once.
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Add in the fact that prevailing doctrine at the time for hijackings was to completely cooperate with the aggressors and get the plane on the ground as soon as possible to effect a solution with minimal loss of life, and you get...well, we know what we got.

Makes me think a lot of the folks still espousing the bunk don't know much about the history of commercial airline hijacking.
 
The 9/11 Commission made a number of recommendations to prevent another attack upon the U.S.

To date, how many of the 9/11 Commission's recommenations have been implemented?
 
RedIbis said:
Why did the FBI block the investigation into the activities of two of the hijackers, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar, who lived openly "in San Diego for more than a year before the attacks" even living with an FBI informant, Abdussattar Shaikh, part of the time?

The quote is from Shenon's excellent book, "The Commission".
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I have read Shenon's book, up until the last 80 pages. Where in his book does it state how the FBI blocked the investigation. From what I recall they were on that trail, but what went wrong had to do with communicating their findings to other agencies and the administration.

In other words, can you be a little more specific with what you (or Shenon) meant by "block"..in other words what particular action(s) constituted obstruction in this particular case?
 
KreeL said:
Good thread, tam.

How did the Naudet Brothers know where to be, all over and outside the WTC, to catch everything on film?
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Thank you.

The Naudet brothers were filming a documentary about rookie Firefighters, IIRC, and so they were out and about with various FF teams for weeks. If you watch their documentary, they were out filming everything months before the attacks.

They were filmmakers, they had cameras going all the time...this explains it to me. There is no evidence beyond paranoid suspicion to even bring them into the 9/11 CT discussion.

TAM:)
 
zorro99 said:
The 9/11 Commission made a number of recommendations to prevent another attack upon the U.S.

To date, how many of the 9/11 Commission's recommenations have been implemented?
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This is a very good question. Was the congress of 2006 not using this as a political football to win a majority. Did they not promise to implement the recommendations within their 1st 100 days? Did they do this?

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
Thank you.

The Naudet brothers were filming a documentary about rookie Firefighters, IIRC, and so they were out and about with various FF teams for weeks. If you watch their documentary, they were out filming everything months before the attacks.

They were filmmakers, they had cameras going all the time...this explains it to me. There is no evidence beyond paranoid suspicion to even bring them into the 9/11 CT discussion.
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These are the kinds of rational explanations for things that rational people accept as most likely, until further evidence comes to light. To irrational people (truthers), I can only guess that it's not sinister enough for them.
 
T.A.M. said:
Thank you.

The Naudet brothers were filming a documentary about rookie Firefighters, IIRC, and so they were out and about with various FF teams for weeks. If you watch their documentary, they were out filming everything months before the attacks.

They were filmmakers, they had cameras going all the time...this explains it to me. There is no evidence beyond paranoid suspicion to even bring them into the 9/11 CT discussion.

TAM:)
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Indeed. And had they been aware of it coming, I am sure they could have gotten better shots, viewing the first plane arrive and hit, rather than the clearly reactive shots we see.
 
zorro99 said:
The 9/11 Commission made a number of recommendations to prevent another attack upon the U.S.

To date, how many of the 9/11 Commission's recommenations have been implemented?
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Lots if them, I don't know if all of them. The creation of Dept of Homeland Security is the result.

Bush stonewalled it. The "Jersey Girls" (families of victims) effectively forced the administration and congress into voting for it.
 
T.A.M. said:
Did they not promise to implement the recommendations within their 1st 100 days? Did they do this?
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In addition to BigAl's mention of the Dept of Homeland Security, just try to find a school teaching ESL to foreign students today, even at the Elementary level. Schools with foreign students have a paperwork requirement that has caused many of them to stop accepting ESL students. The Administrative reporting requirements have made it not financially productive to accept foreign students. The requirements are the same for all foreign students attending schools in the US whether ESL or other subjects. It has affected foreign student enrollment in just about every endeavor.

Is there any doubt that Airport Security has been beefed up? Cockpit doors have been strengthen and it is now a REQUIREMENT that cockpit doors remain closed and locked during all phases of flight. The controversial no fly list is a direct result of the Commissions recommendations?

There are new Radar systems for NORAD and increased training between NORAD and the FAA.

I'm sure I've left something out as I'm just recalling items from memory. Perhaps others can add to the list....
 
911files said:
The CIA is the one that says it had the meeting under surveillance, not me.
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I think the NSA has information that is consistent and the NSA and teh CIA don't compare notes to get the story straight. At least they didn't for NSA's "take" on the planners of 9/11.

What I know about this is from Bamford's The Shadow Factor.
 
As well, In a somewhat related area, does anyone have a link to a valid source that has given details on what interogators got from KSM PRIOR to the use of Waterboarding, etc..

TAM:)
 
Reheat said:
The REAL problem with security was AIRPORT SECURITY or screening of passengers. It was a joke in the US!

Anyone who flew in either Europe or Asia in the pre-9/11 period knows exactly what I'm talking about. Security was much more realistic and much more thorough outside of the US.
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In fairness the security over here left alot to be desired too. I carried a Swiss Army knife with a 2 inch blade on more than a couple of occasions prior to 9/11 through British airport security. My brief experience of US airport screening suggests it was token to say the least though; it'd probably stop you carrying a gun on but thats about it. And it struck me as odd at some airports that you could get right up to the gate even if you weren't flying. Thats unheard of anywhere else i've flown in Europe and I suspect the higher volume of people who must be screened (passengers and non-passengers alike) means the level of checking is probably not going to be all it might be.


And as for 9/11, am I right in saying that the type of knife alledged to have been used by the hijackers was entirely legal to be carried on an US flight before 9/11?
 
Again, good thread, tam.

I notice the engine piece in various film clips laying on the sidewalk at Church and Murray streets. It most likely weighs apx. a ton? My question is, after falling 80+ stories to the street...why isn't it imbedded in the sidewalk? Why isn't the sidewalk shattered?

Thanks in advance.
 
KreeL said:
Again, good thread, tam.

I notice the engine piece in various film clips laying on the sidewalk at Church and Murray streets. It most likely weighs apx. a ton? My question is, after falling 80+ stories to the street...why isn't it imbedded in the sidewalk? Why isn't the sidewalk shattered?

Thanks in advance.
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So what?

Inside Job!!
 
Why didn't it? Well, a fall off a flat-bed trailer wouldn't be sufficient height for it to do that. Pity they didn't think of that before-hand.
 
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