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Leave Nancy Alone!

Dumb All Over said:
The_Animus, I offered evidence to support the claims in the OP. The supporting evidence is in the OP. Did you read the OP?
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I read the OP. It's based on the comments of a serial liar. Remember the good old days when conservatives across the country and on these forums were trying to pretend that they were Sanders supporters?

They'd like to remove Pelosi because she's a thorn in their side. The anti-Pelosi appeal plays to devoted GOP minions, not the swing vote. It's typical right wing blogosphere distraction. The Great Negotiator can't negotiate sufficient support in his own party to get anything done so is continuing to run against the other guys. If Trump had any kind of coalition in Congress IN HIS OWN PARTY he wouldn't need to be worried about who was leading the opposition.
 
Foolmewunz said:
I read the OP. It's based on the comments of a serial liar.
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It is directly from the mouth of the de facto leader of the Republican Party. There is no one in the party who carries more authority.

Since 2010, the year she lost her speakership position and became Minority Leader, the Democrats have suffered major and massive defeats. The President would be quite right to believe that as long as she remains in the leadership role, the Republican party will continue to reap huge benefits.

Republicans, embrace your inner-Nancy and join forces with your Democratic brethren to keep her where she is.
 
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Dumb All Over said:
It is directly from the mouth of the de facto leader of the Republican Party. There is no one in the party who carries more authority.

Since 2010, the year she lost her speakership position and became Minority Leader, the Democrats have suffered major and massive defeats. The President would be quite right to believe that as long as she remains in the leadership role, the Republican party will continue to reap huge benefits.

Republicans, embrace your inner-Nancy and join forces with your Democratic brethren to keep her where she is.
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That's who I said said it.... "a serial liar". Pelosi doesn't determine elections. Trump and the right wing blogosphere would love you to believe that, but Pelosi is Pelosi because she's a prominent Dem, not because of anything she's done (other than being the Speaker and then House Minority Leader).

If Trump and the GOP are planning to run against Pelosi, more power to 'em. If she's how they recovered to win by 3 points in a district that tends to go +17 to the GOP, then the Republicans have some serious problems in '18. The party faithful and Trump enablers bought that line, and it is a defeatist tactic. "Hey, we can't run on OUR achievements or OUR leader; let's run against theirs."

Once a couple of front-runners become clear for 2020, Donnie and the Stooges will forget about Pelosi. Hell, you may even find them backing her (based on the let's-back-the-easiest-to-beat, like the Bernie support)!

Ask yourself... why would the shrewd GOP want to tell the Dems how much she helps the GOP? These aren't political neophytes; they just think we are. And some of us are proving them right.
 
Mumbles said:
And, let's be honest, the GOP's ad designers would attack any democratic leader anyway. It's kind of their job to do that. They'd be derelict if they didn't - just as democratic message crafters would be if they didn't attack republican leaders. I simply see no gain to swapping out a practical and effective leader like Pelosi - except if the democrats wish to appeal to people who are enraged that a woman is among leadership.

Which, given how many of them ran away from the first black president, and directly into a buzzsaw in 2010, 2014, and 2016, I wouldn't doubt...
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I've never been fond of Pelosi and I don't think that my disdain is based on sexism (though it's possible that sexist bias influences my opinion, of course).
 
phiwum said:
I've never been fond of Pelosi and I don't think that my disdain is based on sexism (though it's possible that sexist bias influences my opinion, of course).
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Okay. But name a house member that you think would be more effective as minority leader than Pelosi. I seriously cannot think of anyone that I'd prefer, including my own representative in the House.
 
Leave Nancy alone! Let her stay.

Stand up, Nancy! Let every American know exactly what you want to do to them! Do not be shy! Make sure everyone knows exactly what you want to do, in no uncertain terms. Make sure they know before the next election!
 
Mumbles said:
Okay. But name a house member that you think would be more effective as minority leader than Pelosi. I seriously cannot think of anyone that I'd prefer, including my own representative in the House.
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I don't have an opinion, sorry. I don't think that I have any expertise about the skills necessary to be a good minority leader or any clear knowledge about which House Democrats have these skills.

I also haven't said Pelosi should be replaced. I don't much like her and I think that she's an easy target for Republicans, but I understand that she is very good at raising money and perhaps some other things one wants in a minority leader. I don't know whether it would be better for Dems if she were replaced or not.

But I don't care for her on a personal level (purely subjective) and I tend to clash with her policies to some extent.
 
Dumb All Over said:
Since 2010, the year she lost her speakership position and became Minority Leader, the Democrats have suffered major and massive defeats. The President would be quite right to believe that as long as she remains in the leadership role, the Republican party will continue to reap huge benefits.
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2012 democrats up 6
2014 democrats down 13
2016 democrats up 6

They even made gains in a year democrats lost the presidency.

what are you talking about?
 
phiwum said:
I don't have an opinion, sorry. I don't think that I have any expertise about the skills necessary to be a good minority leader or any clear knowledge about which House Democrats have these skills.

I also haven't said Pelosi should be replaced. I don't much like her and I think that she's an easy target for Republicans, but I understand that she is very good at raising money and perhaps some other things one wants in a minority leader. I don't know whether it would be better for Dems if she were replaced or not.

But I don't care for her on a personal level (purely subjective) and I tend to clash with her policies to some extent.
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If you have another prep for her, and she's your representative in the House - well, that's okay. I would not dial you for that. And yes, unfortunately, raising money is important, and she seems to be good at it.

But where I sit, on the east coast, I simply don't see why I should be rallying against her, especially given how horrid the republican party is right now.

ETA: Seems we're mostly in agreement...
 
BobTheCoward said:
No, I didn't. Since 2010, there have been 3 election cycles.

You said major and massive defeats. I would like you to list 5.
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Eh, why not-

*In early 2011, 193 Democrats and 242 Republicans were sworn-in as Representatives of the U.S. House, a titanic 64-seat loss for the Dems.

*In 2011, Republicans took majority control of the fifty state governorships by a sizable amount and haven't looked back.

*In the 2014 election, Democrats lost 10 Senate seats and control of the Senate giving Republicans a massive 9-seat majority.

*As of this moment, 32 state legislatures are Republican controlled, an upward trend that started in 2011 after massive defeats of Democrats.

*The 6-seat Dem gains you listed for 2012 and 2016 don't even add up to the 13 Republican gains in 2014. That's got to be majorly psychologically defeating.

*Recently, Neil Gorsuch was appointed to the Supreme Court, a move that will have repercussions for years and years to come and a major defeat for Dems.

*(saved the best for last) TRUMP, the yugest defeat of all time.

That's seven. I'm sure I could think of more. When faced with so many devastating defeats, you'd think the party might look to a change at the top in leadership starting with the House Minority Leader, the party's number one messenger (along with Chuck Schumer). Democrats seem unwilling to do this and Republicans are happy for it.
 
And again, what does this related to what Pelosi has done?

Look, if folks want people like Paul Ryan to gut health care, and give tax breaks to rich people, then that's their business. And similarly, if they want an ignorant bigot like Toupee Fiasco to run the government, there's little that the house minority can do to stop that.

But, again, who would do a better job?
 
Dumb All Over said:
Eh, why not-

*In early 2011, 193 Democrats and 242 Republicans were sworn-in as Representatives of the U.S. House, a titanic 64-seat loss for the Dems.

*In 2011, Republicans took majority control of the fifty state governorships by a sizable amount and haven't looked back.

*In the 2014 election, Democrats lost 10 Senate seats and control of the Senate giving Republicans a massive 9-seat majority.

*As of this moment, 32 state legislatures are Republican controlled, an upward trend that started in 2011 after massive defeats of Democrats.

*The 6-seat Dem gains you listed for 2012 and 2016 don't even add up to the 13 Republican gains in 2014. That's got to be majorly psychologically defeating.

*Recently, Neil Gorsuch was appointed to the Supreme Court, a move that will have repercussions for years and years to come and a major defeat for Dems.

*(saved the best for last) TRUMP, the yugest defeat of all time.

That's seven. I'm sure I could think of more. When faced with so many devastating defeats, you'd think the party might look to a change at the top in leadership starting with the House Minority Leader, the party's number one messenger (along with Chuck Schumer). Democrats seem unwilling to do this and Republicans are happy for it.
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The results of 2010 election are not since 2010.

I guess I should have been specific to the house of representatives. You know, because we were talking about them. I am willing to concede that she may influence house elections for the sake of argument. By local and state elections? That is an extraordinary claim.

As all over the place your list is, you might as well toss on brexit and the aging crisis in Japan. Democrats in general nationally is really an issue of the DNC chair, not the minority house leader.
 
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Yes, we know, many people had a fit when the black guy was president, and the white woman was House Speaker.

I'm not sure how we get to "Pelosi resigns" from there, apart from appealing to obvious bigotry.
 
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