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Opinion piece:
http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/same-sex-couples-raising-children-is-bad-for-society/

Notice how the conclusion with which the authors started is "supported" by polls of people's opinions.

Study:
http://www.umass.edu/newsoffice/art...ow-parents-work-together-more-important-their

Notice how the conclusion is reached after the facts are collected and analyzed.

Meta-study:
http://futureofchildren.org/publica....xml?journalid=37&articleid=108&sectionid=699

Notice how the results of over 50 studies are analyzed, after which a conclusion is reached.

Please see Post 8931 and brief excerpts from two, recent peer-reviewed articles published in Social Science Research. The articles are based on studies that make a compelling case for the argument that children do best in a home with a mother and a father. One of the studies is the largest of its kind, starting with 3,000 subjects.
 
Note:

"Two peer-reviewed articles [emphasis added] published Sunday in a scholarly journal (Social Science Research) cast doubt on a core assumption used to advance same-sex marriage."
ok. good. I would have preferred you link the actual papers but that is fine.


The article continues: "Yesterday the academic journal Social Science Research published a detailed methodological review of the research on which the APA based its conclusion." The journal reported that not one of the 59 studies described in the APA report "compared a large, random sample of lesbian or gay parents with a large, random sample of married parents and their children." Not one.
this is a meta-analysis and I am not very interested in it. It doesn't represent a study as requested.

A second large, representative article also published in Social Science Reserch reports on a study by U. of Texas sociologist Dr. Mark Regnerus. His study gives the "most representative" view available of young adults whose parents had same-sex relatiionships. More than 15,000 young adults were screened to find 3,000 participants. 175 of them told Regnerus that their mothers had been in same-sex relationships and 73 said their fathers had.
excellent. An actual scientific study. Thank you.
Here is the link to the article for reference.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X12000610

Importantly, this study makes multiple comparisons using multiple statistical approaches. This is fine for an exploratory study to identify if differences exist, but one must be very careful with this as it will yield many false positives.

Of note, they use simple t-tests for their first pass comparison, setting a p-value of 0.05. This means a 95% confidence that they are finding a difference. What this means though, is that there is a 5% chance of making a false positive. In other words, one out of every 20 comparisons, you are likely to find a positive when one doesn't exist.

In just table 2 alone, they made 105 comparisons. They then went back and ran additional comparisons using alternative statistical methods.

I shall assume their additional methods accounted for this, but (and this is important), they included this data along with their other more sophisticated analyses. This gives the more disreputable opinion writers fodder to claim differences when they do not in fact exist.


for example:
Findings: Young adults whose mothers had same-sex relationships fared worse than their peers "in intact biological families." Examples: They were "far more likely" to report being sexually abused, on welfare, and unemployed.
So what do you believe the causative relationship here is?
Does being a in a lesbian relationship make one poor? Does being sexually abused put one on welfare? Or does being on welfare and unemployed correlate with higher incidence of abuse?

Indeed, majority of the studies problems dealt with the fact that many of the same sex couples were from previously married heterosexual couples. That change is a large factor in many of the correlative data seen.

the author's own conclusions were quite important
But the NFSS also clearly reveals that children appear most apt to succeed well as adults—on multiple counts and across a variety of domains—when they spend their entire childhood with their married mother and father, and especially when the parents remain married to the present day
This suggests two main points:
1.) Children born into stable same-sex marriages will be more apt to succeed, suggesting that allowing gay marriage will be BETTER for children.
2.) Children from low economic families and divorce are worse off.

So, do you believe because of point 2 that we should outlaw divorce or prevent poor people from marrying?
please answer this question. it is very very important.



So there you have it, joobz--the very documentation you challenged me to produce.
Thank you. but, as you can see, one must read the original sources so that you can know what the limits are to the study.
 
I support my Church's position re. same-sex marriage.

Your suggestion that the research of those social scientists who oppose same-sex marriage is necessarily flawed is incorrect. Moreover, the jury is stilll out on whether or not same-sex marriage has a negative effect on children.

Randfan already pointed out the flaws in the research. However, the bigger issue is why do you support you church's position? The idea that your founder, Smith was anything close to moral is well established as nothing more than a sick joke. The basis of your beliefs as being fraudulent is equally well established. Why then would you advocate for a position to restrict the actions of others on the basis of teachings that are fraudulent?
 
Squeaky violins and withered hearts and flowers aside. :)
There is absolutely NO circumstance which would warrant the adoption or fostering of children, or of fertility treatments, to enable those involved in the evil satanic practices of sodomy, homosexual activities, and all and any other sexual perversions... to provide a "role model", "example" and "parental" influences to the minds and emotional health of babies /children / youth, and to pollute the minds, spirit, and emotional health of the innocent.
The destructive nature of homosexuality and its related behaviours have devastating effects, not only for mortality, but far into the eternities... as chances to progress are forever lost.
 
Can I remind participants in this thread that judging people by the demographics to which they happen to belong, rather than on their individual merits, is the definition of unfair discrimination. Women are, on average, shorter than men, but if you put "no women need apply" in a job advert because the job requires the successful applicant to be at least 5ft 10" you are illegally discriminating against the many tall women who could do it. Statistics only tell you that if you put "no-one under 5ft 10" need apply" in your job advert you will get more male applicants than female ones.

There are a great many same sex couples who are very obviously doing a much better job of raising children than a great many mixed sex couples. Even if it could be proved beyond doubt that children raised by mixed sex couples do better on average than children raised by same sex couples it would still not justify preventing all same sex couples adopting. It would just mean that you'd expect fewer same sex couples than mixed sex couples to meet the stringent requirements for adoption.
 
Please see Post 8931 and brief excerpts from two, recent peer-reviewed articles published in Social Science Research. The articles are based on studies that make a compelling case for the argument that children do best in a home with a mother and a father. One of the studies is the largest of its kind, starting with 3,000 subjects.

Wow. It is almost as if you did not even bother to read any of the actual sources I provided, which could be found by clicking the actual links.

I can only suggest that you actually read http://futureofchildren.org/publica....xml?journalid=37&articleid=108&sectionid=699

Pay close attention to the conclusions drawn from actual studies.

Then consider addressing the odd contradiction between your sect's opinions about homosexuality and your sect's opinions about divorce.
 
Perhaps you're confusing me with some other poster. The welfare of children has been the centerpiece of my criticism of gay marriage from Day One. Why do you think I just posted excerpts from two, recent peer-reviewed journal
studies that indicate children do best when raised in a home with a mother and a father?
Because you don't understand the statistical elements of those studies and you've chosen to believe the spin of biased conservative Christians like Christine Kim because it supports your religiously derived prejudices.
 
This suggests two main points:
1.) Children born into stable same-sex marriages will be more apt to succeed, suggesting that allowing gay marriage will be BETTER for children.
2.) Children from low economic families and divorce are worse off.

I'd be curious to know what would be the results of comparing the children of stable heterosexual families with the children of families in which one of the parents had had a heterosexual affair.
 
There is absolutely NO circumstance which would warrant the adoption or fostering of children, or of fertility treatments, to enable those involved in the evil satanic practices of sodomy, homosexual activities, and all and any other sexual perversions... to provide a "role model", "example" and "parental" influences to the minds and emotional health of babies /children / youth, and to pollute the minds, spirit, and emotional health of the innocent. The destructive nature of homosexuality and its related behaviours have devastating effects, not only for mortality, but far into the eternities... as chances to progress are forever lost.


Well, you can't get much clearer than that.

The only question that remains is why you care what other people do? Even if homosexuals are destined to be separated from God, why is it your business what these people choose to do? They're not hurting you. They're not keeping you from practicing your faith. So, what possible difference can it make?

Likewise, the vast majority of the earth is populated by people who are decidedly not Mormon. These people, too, are separated from God. Some don't even believe in God. Yet they are allowed to marry, have children and raise those children in a manner that you disapprove of.

Is the difference merely pragmatic? Are you against gay marriage because you think it's a fight you can win?
 
It is difficult in a moderated thread to keep track of things and to post as things happen. It is, of course, also difficult to remain polite and within the rules sometimes, so I hope this post will be gentle enough to avoid deletion.

I will just mention that I am not confusing Skyrider with any other poster when I suggest that his explicit statement that gay marriage laws apply to two gay men who will not have children is not good evidence that goof faith has been exercised in discussing the rights of children who actually exist in the world that actually exists around us, or the marital issues of a class of people half of whom are women, and if such a post is indicative of a concern for the rights of children and women it's an odd way to express it.

I note also that Janadele has weighed in here with her usual expression, characterizing homosexual activity with words such as "evil, "'sodomy," and "perversion." As usual, however, she also refers to matters that are not directly related to life in the world of the living, and insofar as her observations deal with spiritual matters and with the afterlife, I would contend that they are quite simply inapplicable to civil law.
 
Squeaky violins and withered hearts and flowers aside. :)
There is absolutely NO circumstance which would warrant the adoption or fostering of children, or of fertility treatments, to enable those involved in the evil satanic practices of sodomy, homosexual activities, and all and any other sexual perversions... to provide a "role model", "example" and "parental" influences to the minds and emotional health of babies /children / youth, and to pollute the minds, spirit, and emotional health of the innocent.
The destructive nature of homosexuality and its related behaviours have devastating effects, not only for mortality, but far into the eternities... as chances to progress are forever lost.

I know responding to this is useless, but the nauseating nature of this post cannot go unchallenged.

Janedele, your opinion that homosexual activity is evil, perverse, and detrimental to others is simply that. Your opinion. Based in part on the teaching of a racist, sexist, homophobic religion that has no influence or bearing on those of us who are not members.

The science opposes your view. Homosexuality is clearly perfectly normal in humans as well as many other animals, and I have seen no compelling science indicating that it is damaging to children.

<SNIP> But the world is fortunately moving beyond such revolting prejudice, and your views are increasingly being seen as a shameful holdover from a less-enlightened past. <SNIP> You will find few proponents of such bigotry on this site, and fewer and fewer world-wide. That thought delights me.
 
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Squeaky violins and withered hearts and flowers aside. :)
There is absolutely NO circumstance which would warrant the adoption or fostering of children, or of fertility treatments, to enable those involved in the evil satanic practices of sodomy, homosexual activities, and all and any other sexual perversions... to provide a "role model", "example" and "parental" influences to the minds and emotional health of babies /children / youth, and to pollute the minds, spirit, and emotional health of the innocent.
The destructive nature of homosexuality and its related behaviours have devastating effects, not only for mortality, but far into the eternities... as chances to progress are forever lost.

At least shyrider44 is attempting to offer some rationalization more than just hate.
 
The destructive nature of homosexuality and its related behaviours have devastating effects, not only for mortality, but far into the eternities... as chances to progress are forever lost.
Nothing in your post is true. We know it isn't true because of the factual evidence we have that shows there is no measurable negative impact of homosexuality on people or society.

I think your inability to tell the difference between fact and fantasy shares a common origin to your following a religion created by a known fraudster.
 
Squeaky violins and withered hearts and flowers aside. :)
There is absolutely NO circumstance which would warrant the adoption or fostering of children, or of fertility treatments, to enable those involved in the evil satanic practices of sodomy, homosexual activities, and all and any other sexual perversions... to provide a "role model", "example" and "parental" influences to the minds and emotional health of babies /children / youth, and to pollute the minds, spirit, and emotional health of the innocent.
The destructive nature of homosexuality and its related behaviours have devastating effects, not only for mortality, but far into the eternities... as chances to progress are forever lost.

No circumstances? Really? You'd rather a child be bounced around foster care until the age of 18 than be raised by gay parents? It would be better that a child remain with a violently abusive drunk than be adopted by a loving same-sex couple? It would be better that a child die of malaria in a third-world nation than be raised by two women in a happy marriage? The depths of the hatred that your hyperbole demonstrated is heartbreaking.
 
Squeaky violins and withered hearts and flowers aside. :)
There is absolutely NO circumstance which would warrant the adoption or fostering of children, or of fertility treatments, to enable those involved in the evil satanic practices of sodomy, homosexual activities, and all and any other sexual perversions... to provide a "role model", "example" and "parental" influences to the minds and emotional health of babies /children / youth, and to pollute the minds, spirit, and emotional health of the innocent.
The destructive nature of homosexuality and its related behaviours have devastating effects, not only for mortality, but far into the eternities... as chances to progress are forever lost.
Is this LDS doctrine?
 
Note the following:

"Imagine

Here is where you post went South.

Imagining things is wonderful but it is not reality. You live in the "real world" not in an imaginary one.

I cannot understand with all the evidence brought against your scriptures, your prophets, your teachings, you don't just look at it all and say,

"Goodness, they are right. There is no such things as God. I see now that this God is a man-made concept, just like all the other Gods that have been and will be made up. I am following the dictates of some men who are taking my money, and telling me how to live my life!

I don't have to do this anymore.

<SNIP>
 
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Squeaky violins and withered hearts and flowers aside. :)
There is absolutely NO circumstance which would warrant the adoption or fostering of children, or of fertility treatments, to enable those involved in the evil satanic practices of sodomy, homosexual activities, and all and any other sexual perversions... to provide a "role model", "example" and "parental" influences to the minds and emotional health of babies /children / youth, and to pollute the minds, spirit, and emotional health of the innocent.
The destructive nature of homosexuality and its related behaviours have devastating effects, not only for mortality, but far into the eternities... as chances to progress are forever lost.
Where do Joe and Brigham figure into this for you?
 
Squeaky violins and withered hearts and flowers aside. :)
There is absolutely NO circumstance which would warrant the adoption or fostering of children, or of fertility treatments, to enable those involved in the evil satanic practices of sodomy, homosexual activities, and all and any other sexual perversions... to provide a "role model", "example" and "parental" influences to the minds and emotional health of babies /children / youth, and to pollute the minds, spirit, and emotional health of the innocent.
The destructive nature of homosexuality and its related behaviours have devastating effects, not only for mortality, but far into the eternities... as chances to progress are forever lost.

On what do you base these bigoted assertions? Again I ask, is it scripture? Tradition? Political? If your Church were to change its mind, would you change yours?
 
By the way, one other thing hard to do in a moderated thread is to proofread, and owing to some neural and visual issues combined with a long standing habit of touch typing too fast, I sometimes hit many wrong keys and sometimes miss errors the first time around. So I wish to assert here that my post above referring to "goof faith" was really just a misprint, and despite appearances to the contrary was not meant to mean anything but "good faith."
 
Squeaky violins and withered hearts and flowers aside. :)
There is absolutely NO circumstance which would warrant the adoption or fostering of children, or of fertility treatments, to enable those involved in the evil satanic practices of sodomy, homosexual activities, and all and any other sexual perversions...
Nonsense. You've been shown instances of children who would otherwise have been left to languish in foster care or in group homes if they had not been adopted by a homosexual couple. These children now have a stable, loving home; they are fed, clothed, educated, nurtured, loved, given every opportunity to reach their full potential and have been rescued from the abuse and neglect they suffered at the hands of their heterosexual birth parents. For those children, their adoption by the "superdads" has been a literal life-saver. Scarlettinlondon has given you personal testimony that homosexual couples are often the ones who foster or adopt those children that heterosexual couples don't want - saving those children from a life in care.

Can you explain what you mean by "satanic" practices? I have to wonder what you think goes on in the bedrooms of those who engage in "homosexual activities and all and any other sexual perversions" and why you think that these activities would affect the children in any way. I don't know about you, but what I did with my husband in the privacy of our bedroom was never witnessed by any of our children. Even if some of the things we did might have been classified by you as perverted, you didn't know about it and neither did my children. So what is your concern? Equally, if we had been a homosexual couple, any children we might have had naturally or by adoption would not have witnessed our bedroom activities, so I really don't understand your concern. Perhaps you could elucidate.

to provide a "role model", "example" and "parental" influences to the minds and emotional health of babies /children / youth, and to pollute the minds, spirit, and emotional health of the innocent.
What makes a good parental role model in your mind, Janadele?

To me, a good parental role model is a person who nurtures a child's individual personality, who gives that child unconditional love, who uses age-appropriate sanctions without violence to teach the child where the boundaries of behaviour lie, who teaches them to respect others, who (if they are not homeschooled) selects the best schools for them as individuals, who strives to actively support their education, who protects them from witnessing or experiencing anything which they are not old enough to understand, who allows them to develop into compassionate and valuable members of society so that when they are ready to live independently, they make a success of their lives. Nothing in that list has anything to do with the sexuality of the parent(s), nor whether they are single, divorced, widowed, married, homosexual or heterosexual. You are getting so hung up on the status of the parent(s) that you are forgetting that it is the quality of parenting that makes the difference.

Anyone of us can undoubtedly point to a married heterosexual couple who are absolutely dreadful parents - it's not what the parents are which makes them good or bad parents but what they do. Single parents like me (not by choice, I should point out) need to ensure that their children have good responsible role models of both sexes - in my case that wasn't my ex-husband who decided one day that marriage and our four children wasn't what he wanted. So I ensured that my children had good male role models for my sons to emulate and for my daughter to see that men are not all uncaring wankers . Homosexual parents, if they are good parents ensure their children have good role models of both sexes too.

The destructive nature of homosexuality and its related behaviours have devastating effects, not only for mortality, but far into the eternities... as chances to progress are forever lost.
Evidence? Perhaps you could start by explaining why you consider homosexuality, found in many species of animals as well as in humans, to be "destructive".
 
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