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The 141st Temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was dedicated on 17 March, 2013. This is the first LDS Temple in Honduras, the sixth in Central America.
The Tegucigalpa Honduras Temple will serve approximately 233,000 members of the Church in Honduras and Nicaragua. Five other temples in Central America are in Guatemala City, Guatemala (dedicated in 1984); San José, Costa Rica (2000); Panama City, Panama (2008); San Salvador, El Salvador (2011); and Quetzaltenango, Guatemala (2011). Further details at http://www.lds.org/?lang=eng

Assuming those numbers are accurate...so what? Some more people were suckered. Let's alert the media pronto. :rolleyes:

Out of curiosity, since the LDS Church baptizes dead people, are those poor souls included in the membership count? (That's not really a question for Janadele, since she won't answer it anyway...but I AM curious. It's not outside the realm of possibility.)

Why doesn't the LDS church use some of the millions they spend on building ornate temples towards charitable efforts?

(Pardon another interruption, Pakeha.)
 
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desert girl: Of course they are not.

Given that we've established and you've made not even an attempt at refutation that your beliefs are factually incorrect, how could they not be "suckered" into believing something wrong? It is not possible to believe Mormon "scripture" and not to believe something incorrect.
 
Are there any documented cases of a 40 day fast?

Finally remembered the guy's name: David Blaine. Google his name and 44 day fast. Lots of popular and medical articles, including a few that accused him of fraud but others claiming it was real. Random example:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/34118.php


Doctors responsible for treating the magician David Blaine following his 44 day fast in a suspended glass box said he lost 24.5kg - 25 per cent of his original body weight...

Blaine's metabolic status when he arrived at hospital immediately after the fast showed normal blood sugar levels but elevated levels of fatty acids, typical of long-term fasting.

He had vitamin B1 and B6 deficiency and these were replenished immediately after admission to hospital. Haemoconcentration was observed on the day Blaine was admitted and by day 10 there was a slight oedema.

His grossly elevated levels of vitamin B12 and high zinc and liver enzyme levels suggest liver function impairment, and he had low levels of insulin and very low levels of insulin-like growth factor 1, these changes are again characteristic findings in long-term starving.

Or from the New England Journal of Medicine, same thing in big words ;) :

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM200511243532124
 
Assuming those numbers are accurate...so what? Some more people were suckered. Let's alert the media pronto. :rolleyes:

Out of curiosity, since the LDS Church baptizes dead people, are those poor souls included in the membership count? (That's not really a question for Janadele, since she won't answer it anyway...but I AM curious. It's not outside the realm of possibility.)

No, the church doesn't do that. For other things, Mormon doctrine is that not everyone will accept the Gospel even after death, so there's no guarantee that people who are baptized by proxy will be members. (Of course, this leaves open the question of why, when you're dead and there's simply no longer any question about what is the correct theology and afterlife, you would still deny it, but there we go asking for logic again.)

What the numbers do include, however, is anyone who has been baptized and then left the church and joined another but didn't take their names off the membership list. Two of my siblings fit into that category. One now isn't active in any religion but just kind of believes in a god, the other is involved in a local Baptist church. Yet they are both counted as Mormons, since they were baptized. Since a large number of people join a new group, but then fall away as they get disenchanted, or a new group comes along and sparks their interest, I would be very surprised if the numbers of active are anywhere close to the official numbers.

Why doesn't the LDS church use some of the millions they spend on building ornate temples towards charitable efforts?

That is an excellent question and one I ask myself. Not a surprise that they don't keep open financial records.
 
desert girl: Of course they are not.

As I said, that question wasn't directed at you. A rote response from the blindly indoctrinated isn't necessarily the true answer.

No, the church doesn't do that. For other things, Mormon doctrine is that not everyone will accept the Gospel even after death, so there's no guarantee that people who are baptized by proxy will be members. (Of course, this leaves open the question of why, when you're dead and there's simply no longer any question about what is the correct theology and afterlife, you would still deny it, but there we go asking for logic again.)

Fair enough.

What the numbers do include, however, is anyone who has been baptized and then left the church and joined another but didn't take their names off the membership list. Two of my siblings fit into that category. One now isn't active in any religion but just kind of believes in a god, the other is involved in a local Baptist church. Yet they are both counted as Mormons, since they were baptized. Since a large number of people join a new group, but then fall away as they get disenchanted, or a new group comes along and sparks their interest, I would be very surprised if the numbers of active are anywhere close to the official numbers.
This I am aware of, and can attest to as well. My husband and his six siblings were raised LDS. All seven, and their mother, eventually left the Mormon church. They are all still on the Mormon rolls, though, except for one sister who specifically petitioned the LDS Church to remove her name from their roster. IIRC, it involved some paperwork and a little time. Ludicrous that one must fill out an application for removal of their own name from a church they no longer wish to be associated with. The LDS Church seems to believe their members are also their legal property.

Incidentally, how about former members who have since passed away? My mother in law never "formally" left the LDS Church (petitioned the church to remove her name from their membership). We certainly didn't notify them of her passing. Isn't it possible her name is still listed as a member?

That is an excellent question and one I ask myself. Not a surprise that they don't keep open financial records.
Yes. I think someone else here - maybe you? - pointed out that the LDS Church spends less than one percent of their revenue in charitable endeavors. That's, well, gross.

Their financial records are like their membership records: shrouded in mystery. One wonders why?
 
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This I am aware of, and can attest to as well. My husband and his six siblings were raised LDS. All seven, and their mother, eventually left the Mormon church. They are all still on the Mormon rolls, though, except for one sister who specifically petitioned the LDS Church to remove her name from their roster. IIRC, it involved some paperwork and a little time. Ludicrous that one must fill out an application for removal of their own name from a church they no longer wish to be associated with. The LDS Church seems to believe their members are also their legal property.

Incidentally, how about former members who have since passed away? My mother in law never "formally" left the LDS Church (petitioned the church to remove her name from their membership). We certainly didn't notify them of her passing. Isn't it possible her name is still listed as a member?

I imagine your MIL still is listed as inactive on the church rolls. I wonder when they purge the records, by assuming people are dead. Do they have to have been born 100 years earlier? 150? That would be another great way to pad the membership numbers.

Congrats to your husband and his family for leaving, esp having been raised in the church. Not always an easy thing to do.

Yes. I think someone else here - maybe you? - pointed out that the LDS Church spends less than one percent of their revenue in charitable endeavors. That's, well, gross.

Their financial records are like their membership records: shrouded in mystery. One wonders why?

Yes, that was me. Or at least, I'm one who made that comment, others might have as well. But it's a sore point with me, since the LDS are always crowing about how much they do for the poor, and with their welfare program. It's clear that, percentage-wise, they simply don't do much at all. And that's using the numbers that they themselves release. They state the amount they give to the poor, but couched in figures over a decade, so it sounds much larger than it really is. When you break it down, and approximate how much the church rakes in every year, the amount is downright shameful. I just made out my mother's tithing slip yesterday and wrote her monthly check to the church, and I'm still seething a bit.
 
I imagine your MIL still is listed as inactive on the church rolls. I wonder when they purge the records, by assuming people are dead. Do they have to have been born 100 years earlier? 150? That would be another great way to pad the membership numbers.

Congrats to your husband and his family for leaving, esp having been raised in the church. Not always an easy thing to do.

Both harder and easier than you'd expect. Here's a Mormon story for you all: my mother and father in law both grew up in rural Alberta, Canada. Tiny town, less than a thousand people. Founded by Mormons, 100% LDS. (The pop. is slightly larger today, but I think the Mormon percentage is still in the high nineties-at least it was when we lived there 13 years ago. The town is very near Cardston, which has an LDS temple.) When my MIL was 18, she went out on a first date with my FIL. It ended somewhat unusually for a first date-today, we would call it "date rape", in that time (1942) and that place, it was referred to as a young man "getting a little carried away." She became pregnant. Marriage, according to the LDS church, was the mandatory next step, and there was intense pressure applied from the church, the members, the families. I don't think my MIL wanted that, but she did want her baby, and she had nowhere else to go. Hard enough, when you are 18, to withstand that kind of pressure without a tiny dependent thrown into the mix.

I believe my mother in law always had doubts about the LDS Church, but circumstances forced her into a facade of a "follower". In other words, when you live and work in a tiny predominantly Mormon town, it's pretty hard to buck the trend. While she certainly never lacked in courage, the repercussions of leaving the church, at that time, weren't something she was equipped to handle. I'm neither excusing or apologizing for her - it was what it was. FWIW, she was never a Jack Mormon. She paid her tithe, attended services regularly, volunteered for the multitude of activities required of LDS members, took her children to seminary and Sunday school, and was, overall, a good Mormon wife and mother. I think, knowing her, she tried very hard to believe and be dutiful, regardless of her inner doubts, until she just couldn't stomach it anymore.

(That hasn't changed-when we moved to the same town in 1995, to care for my FIL, the first question we were asked by a prospective landlord was if we were "members". Never believe some Mormons don't practice religious discrimination.)

Nineteen years and seven children later, the family moved to Whittier, Calif. As soon as they did, my mother in law and her children dropped out of the LDS Church. My FIL continued to attend sporadically, but he was, unlike her, always a half hearted member at best. He claimed LDS when it suited him, kept mum when it didn't. Ironic, since he remained in the church and she didn't. Shortly before their 31st anniversary, he had an affair, and she threw in the towel and filed for divorce. Thankfully, she was able to spend her final years free of both the church and an emotionally abusive marriage.

Yes, that was me. Or at least, I'm one who made that comment, others might have as well. But it's a sore point with me, since the LDS are always crowing about how much they do for the poor, and with their welfare program. It's clear that, percentage-wise, they simply don't do much at all. And that's using the numbers that they themselves release. They state the amount they give to the poor, but couched in figures over a decade, so it sounds much larger than it really is. When you break it down, and approximate how much the church rakes in every year, the amount is downright shameful. I just made out my mother's tithing slip yesterday and wrote her monthly check to the church, and I'm still seething a bit.
Disgusting.

We had a Mormon neighbor in Canada who lived in a very old house. She was excited when the Church came and put a new roof on her house, because she couldn't afford it. I couldn't help but think, even though she claimed the church did it for her, that after forty years of paying her tithe, she'd actually paid for the roof herself several times over. Not quite so charitable when looked at in that light.
 
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Both harder and easier than you'd expect. Here's a Mormon story for you all:
*respectfully snipped*

Good god. Your MIL married her rapist, and actually raised children and had a life with him. What an extraordinary woman. Speaking as someone who was sexually abused as a child, if I ever ran into the guy again, I'd claw his eyes out, at a bare minimum. Your MIL has my utmost respect! As do you and your husband and his family. Must have been incredibly conflicted when everyone learned the story, but you cared for him anyway in his time of need. Amazing. I freely admit I could not do that. You're a better woman than I am. *tips hat*

Disgusting.

We had a Mormon neighbor in Canada who lived in a very old house. She was excited when the Church came and put a new roof on her house, because she couldn't afford it. I couldn't help but think, even though she claimed the church did it for her, that after forty years of paying her tithe, she'd actually paid for the roof herself several times over. Not quite so charitable when looked at in that light.

Yes, and many Mormons will give a bit more than the 10%, just to be an extra-good Mormon. Add to that the fast offering, and any other offerings, and this church just rakes in the money hand over fist. Seems like it would be cheaper to get involved in a Ponzi scheme. At least in that case, you might get a bit of it back from the next poor victims to come along. :(
 
Why doesn't the LDS church use some of the millions they spend on building ornate temples towards charitable efforts?

(Pardon another interruption, Pakeha.)
When I was an active LDS member I and others would criticize the Catholic Church for having so much wealth and failing to spend it on the poor. The Mormon Church is better at hiding it's wealth. It has ridiculously ornate buildings but not all of the art the Catholic church has.
 
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The 141st Temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was dedicated on 17 March, 2013. This is the first LDS Temple in Honduras, the sixth in Central America.
The Tegucigalpa Honduras Temple will serve approximately 233,000 members of the Church in Honduras and Nicaragua. Five other temples in Central America are in Guatemala City, Guatemala (dedicated in 1984); San José, Costa Rica (2000); Panama City, Panama (2008); San Salvador, El Salvador (2011); and Quetzaltenango, Guatemala (2011). Further details at http://www.lds.org/?lang=eng
Things, events, history. I'm hauling my ass back to Mormonism. If this isn't the categorical proof of the truthfulness of Joseph Smith's work to restore the one and only living gospel of Christ here on earth then I don't know what is. Praise be to copy and paste wisdom.
 
The 141st Temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was dedicated on 17 March, 2013. This is the first LDS Temple in Honduras, the sixth in Central America.
The Tegucigalpa Honduras Temple will serve approximately 233,000 members of the Church in Honduras and Nicaragua. Five other temples in Central America are in Guatemala City, Guatemala (dedicated in 1984); San José, Costa Rica (2000); Panama City, Panama (2008); San Salvador, El Salvador (2011); and Quetzaltenango, Guatemala (2011). Further details at http://www.lds.org/?lang=eng

Who the **** cares about any of this?
It's difficult as a TBM (true blue Mormon) to see things through non-believers eyes. While meaningless to just about anyone else, to a TBM this is evidence of god's plan of salvation unfolding here on Earth. It's very historical and a cause for reverence and gratitude to an omnipotent and omnipresent god who would bless his chosen people so much.
 
Interesting point, Randfan. Janadele's little news snippets are completely meaningless in the context of the thread to most of us, so it's a reminder that we are approaching the subject from a very different place. I wish she'd spend more time in substantive replies instead of copypasta, though.

Desertgal, I join with Empress in feeling both sadness and respect for your mother-in-law.
 
The 141st Temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was dedicated on 17 March, 2013. This is the first LDS Temple in Honduras, the sixth in Central America.
The Tegucigalpa Honduras Temple will serve approximately 233,000 members of the Church in Honduras and Nicaragua. Five other temples in Central America are in Guatemala City, Guatemala (dedicated in 1984); San José, Costa Rica (2000); Panama City, Panama (2008); San Salvador, El Salvador (2011); and Quetzaltenango, Guatemala (2011). Further details at http://www.lds.org/?lang=eng

This does nothing to address any of the questions that have been asked of you earlier in the thread. Why did you post it?

Wait, are you trying to use the argument that the growth of the Mormon faith among poorly educated third world people is evidence of diving providence?

BWHAHAHA!!!! How cute.

Allow me to provide some relevant links you won't bother reading anyway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest-growing_religion

Islam Is the Fastest Growing Religion in England; Christianity on the Decline, Census Data Shows

Now, go ahead and beat about these being "anti-Mormon" sources because they don't conform to your world view.
 
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Janadele -

So your cool with the facts, that your church is pandering outright lies, so they can make money?
 
I never understood the point of fasting to begin with. The Lord is supposed to be flattered when His children voluntarily elect to abuse their bodies in His name?

That's some "father".
I understand the conjecture. By forgoing earthly pleasures one prepares for spiritual truths through sacrifice. It's long been a staple of Eastern and Western philosophies. And it seems that there is some science behind it (it can result in visions or rather, delusions, hallucinations, and changes in physiology). It's often associated with meditation and for many is seen as requisite for the transforming benefits of meditation. At least that's what I remember.
 
It's at 38'' and I don't get it either.

...
The slightly crazy...
I no longer believe in the Golden plates of "Reformed Egyptian."
I no longer believe that the Hebrews were a "white and delightsome" people 600 years before Christ.I no longer believe that men who claim to speak for God reveal anything but their own arrogance and self-delusion.
I no longer believe in three heavens.
I no longer believe in excommunicating historians whose only fault is telling the truth.
...


There's a transcript at this youtube link.
 
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