LDS

[pakeha]

Oh, no, no, no. It's just such a long thread, and I had to leave for some appointments, so I couldn't deal with the subject in depth the way it needed, and I wanted you to get the answer to your question while I had time.

Now that I'm back home, I'll try to find where the thread went into that particular subject and get you a link.

ETA: It looks like that part of the discussion goes in depth starting here.

Thanks, O Empress!
Yes, Janadele posted "Every mortal ever born on this earth, and all those yet to come, are the Spiritual children of their Heavenly Mother and our Heavenly Father."

And you posted
"The best Mormon men and women will attain the top of the Celestial Kingdom after death. There they will become gods themselves and have their own worlds to populate, just like this one. (Yahweh still ranks over them, but they'll be like Yahweh for a new planet.) In order to populate those planets, one god and his wives (multiple) will have spirit babies. So, long story short, Mormons believe in afterlife polygamy, but only for the very best Mormons.

Now this being a very sexist religion, I will point out that one woman cannot have multiple husbands. Take my sister for example. She was married in the temple last year to a widower. My BIL is now "sealed for time and all eternity" to both his first wife and my sister. Since my BIL is about 15 years older than my sister, it stands to reason that he'll die first. If that happens, she can remarry, but not be sealed to a new husband. BIL gets sealed to two wives (or more if by some happenstance he outlives my sister), Sister gets one husband, end of story. "

This was on pages 69 and 70.
So.
Divine polygamy.
How delightfully Islamic/pagan.

 

[deaman]

Why?

Because he is refering to another religion. One which has multiple wives featured. Did he study the koran? It just seems like a desparate connection. Maybe it's not though.

It certainly struck me as weird, that he would refer to himself as a type of prophet, from another very different religion.

But, as I mentioned before, I am certainly not well studied as far as Islam goes 9or any major religions for that matter, since I believe them all to be nothing but myth and stories), and I believe several of the major world religons all seem to have come from a similar source, like Abraham, The 12 tribes, etc.

 

[deaman]

It seems one of the major impetus in the mormon religion is how much sex you can have for all of eternity, with as many partners as you can gather.

How rather human.

 

[Marcus]

Thanks, O Empress!
Yes, Janadele posted "Every mortal ever born on this earth, and all those yet to come, are the Spiritual children of their Heavenly Mother and our Heavenly Father."

And you posted
"The best Mormon men and women will attain the top of the Celestial Kingdom after death. There they will become gods themselves and have their own worlds to populate, just like this one. (Yahweh still ranks over them, but they'll be like Yahweh for a new planet.) In order to populate those planets, one god and his wives (multiple) will have spirit babies. So, long story short, Mormons believe in afterlife polygamy, but only for the very best Mormons.

Now this being a very sexist religion, I will point out that one woman cannot have multiple husbands. Take my sister for example. She was married in the temple last year to a widower. My BIL is now "sealed for time and all eternity" to both his first wife and my sister. Since my BIL is about 15 years older than my sister, it stands to reason that he'll die first. If that happens, she can remarry, but not be sealed to a new husband. BIL gets sealed to two wives (or more if by some happenstance he outlives my sister), Sister gets one husband, end of story. "

This was on pages 69 and 70.
So.
Divine polygamy.
How delightfully Islamic/pagan.

That's interesting, Islam and LDS really do seem to have a lot in common. Good luck getting either side admitting to this , though. One would have to give the nod to Islam, as far as argument ad populum goes, they have a big advantage in numbers.

 

[Marcus]

It seems one of the major impetus in the mormon religion is how much sex you can have for all of eternity, with as many partners as you can gather.

How rather human.

Now I'm curious, how is Mormon sex apportioned in the afterlife? I'm finding it hard to beat this 72 virgins thing, it seems hard to surpass.

 

[SezMe]

Unless you're one of the virgins, that is.

 

[Marcus]

Yes, that has to be harsh. Here you are, a virgin, you died before you could find a proper husband who could beat you into submission, instead you are required to bang some stranger whose only qualification is that he died a martyr..

 

[tsig]

Yes, that has to be harsh. Here you are, a virgin, you died before you could find a proper husband who could beat you into submission, instead you are required to bang some stranger whose only qualification is that he died a martyr..

I don't think there's any requirement for the virgins to have lived on Earth, Allah could just create them out of nothing just for his martyrs.

 

[Empress]

Now I'm curious, how is Mormon sex apportioned in the afterlife? I'm finding it hard to beat this 72 virgins thing, it seems hard to surpass.

Well, BY had over 50 wives, IIRC, and JS had 20-30. So if you're into numbers, than Islam is the religion for you, esp since in the LDS now you can only get your wives one at a time, which cuts down drastically on the numbers. Of course, since in the LDS your wives were actually married to you before death, and you presumably enjoyed the mortal sex, if you're not interested in the virginity aspect, than you might want to give the LDS a shot.

The problem with the LDS for men, as I see it, is that in their afterlife, women are actually give birth, so I'm assuming women are on the rag there, too. So maybe 30-50 wives all having eternity PMS at once might put the kybosh on wanting too many.

The problem with the LDS or Islam for women is rather self-evident.

 

[skyrider44]

• I have been polite to you.
• I have not misrepresented anything and I resent your accusation.
• My only loyalty is to the truth.

To my knowledge, you haven't used the derogatory term "magic underwear" in referring to the garments Mormons wear and hold sacred. Others on this thread have used that term--sometimes mockingly.

I can't help but wonder if they would refer to the bindi (red dot located between the eyebrows worn by married Hindu women) as a "magic marker." The dot is a sign of social status and the sacredness of the marriage covenant.

I also can't help but wonder if some of those same posters would refer to the small box orthodox Jews bind to their foreheads as "magic headgear." The box, called a tefillin, contains verses from the Torah written on parchment. Those verses are sacred to many Jews.

Point: Some on this thread have shown lamentable disrespect for Janadele and her faith. In my opinion, there is no excuse for that.

 

[Slowvehicle]

To my knowledge, you haven't used the derogatory term "magic underwear" in referring to the garments Mormons wear and hold sacred. Others on this thread have used that term--sometimes mockingly.

I can't help but wonder if they would refer to the bindi (red dot located between the eyebrows worn by married Hindu women) as a "magic marker." The dot is a sign of social status and the sacredness of the marriage covenant.

I also can't help but wonder if some of those same posters would refer to the small box orthodox Jews bind to their foreheads as "magic headgear." The box, called a tefillin, contains verses from the Torah written on parchment. Those verses are sacred to many Jews.

Point: Some on this thread have shown lamentable disrespect for Janadele and her faith. In my opinion, there is no excuse for that.

Speaking of being disrespectful, do you ever intend to provide that list of anachronisms in the BoM that have been demonstrated, by practical, empirical, physical evidence, attested to by neutral scholars, to have existed in the pre-Colombian Americas?

Or do you just intend to keep disrespectfully dodging the issue?

 

[Nay_Sayer]

To my knowledge, you haven't used the derogatory term "magic underwear" in referring to the garments Mormons wear and hold sacred. Others on this thread have used that term--sometimes mockingly.

I can't help but wonder if they would refer to the bindi (red dot located between the eyebrows worn by married Hindu women) as a "magic marker." The dot is a sign of social status and the sacredness of the marriage covenant.

I also can't help but wonder if some of those same posters would refer to the small box orthodox Jews bind to their foreheads as "magic headgear." The box, called a tefillin, contains verses from the Torah written on parchment. Those verses are sacred to many Jews.

Point: Some on this thread have shown lamentable disrespect for Janadele and her faith. In my opinion, there is no excuse for that.

For me, Yes to all.

I'm sorry if I'm not mollycoddling your particular religion in the way you'd like.

If think people asking her to honestly answer questions is disrespectful, it isn't.

 

[skyrider44]

Speaking of being disrespectful, do you ever intend to provide that list of anachronisms in the BoM that have been demonstrated, by practical, empirical, physical evidence, attested to by neutral scholars, to have existed in the pre-Colombian Americas?

Apparently, you tacitly agree with my point.

 

[jsfisher]

Apparently, you tacitly agree with my point.

Apparently, you continue to dodge all possible discussion with meaningless misdirection, semantic quibbles, self-victimization, and random silly equivocations. Is your position so indefensible you must divert its consideration at all cost?

 

[skyrider44]

For me, Yes to all.

I'm sorry if I'm not mollycoddling your particular religion in the way you'd like.

If think people asking her to honestly answer questions is disrespectful, it isn't.

Oh? Here is what 15 minutes of reviewing posts on this thread reveals:

Post 5107, RandFan: "Acting like a Stepford wife is a poor way of getting others interested in your beliefs."

Post 5096, RoboTimbo: "regurgitated mindless pap from LDS doctrine. . . ."

Post 5110, halleyscomet: "It was a chance to show off she can use teh [sic] Google AND knows how to copy and paste text."

Post 5164, zooterkin: "too weak to operate a keyboard, as she's undergoing a fast of biblical proportions".

Post 5183, deaman: "It seems one of the major impetus [sic] in the mormon religion is how much sex you can have in all of eternity, with as many partners as you can gather."

Post 5189, Empress: "The problem with the LDS for men. . .is that in their afterlife, women are actually [sic] give birth, so I'm assuming women are on the rag there, too."

Post 5043, deaman: "It's time for the world to wake up from the hypnotic BS it's been shilling for thousands of years."

Post 5156, jsfisher: "Joseph Smith was a Class-A con artist."

Post 5160, RoboTimbo: "We keep asking the wrong questions. The ones that would make most people think."

No disrespect in any of that, huh? Nothing but mature, rational, civil, truth-seeking discourse--right?

 

[Slowvehicle]

Apparently, you tacitly agree with my point.

Do you mean, in addition to your continually disrespectful technique of pretending to be able to tell atheists what they "really believe", disrespectfully pretedning that a lack of belief is, in fact, because you want to say so, a "belief"?

Yes, you have been disrespectful. Instead of pretending that (for instance) my scholarship is deficient because I do not adopt in fee simple the unsupported claims of "mormon archaeology", why not simply provide the list you have alluded to--that list of anachronisms found in the BoM that have been demonstrated, through practical, empirical, physical evidence, attested to by neutral sources, to have actually existed in the pre-Colombian Americas? (Please do notice that a simple list presented without support on a chart at a workshop is not evidence...)

 

[Slowvehicle]

duplicate post

 

[Slowvehicle]

Oh? Here is what 15 minutes of reviewing posts on this thread reveals:

Post 5107, RandFan: "Acting like a Stepford wife is a poor way of getting others interested in your beliefs."

Post 5096, RoboTimbo: "regurgitated mindless pap from LDS doctrine. . . ."

Post 5110, halleyscomet: "It was a chance to show off she can use teh [sic] Google AND knows how to copy and paste text."

Post 5164, zooterkin: "too weak to operate a keyboard, as she's undergoing a fast of biblical proportions".

Post 5183, deaman: "It seems one of the major impetus [sic] in the mormon religion is how much sex you can have in all of eternity, with as many partners as you can gather."

Post 5189, Empress: "The problem with the LDS for men. . .is that in their afterlife, women are actually [sic] give birth, so I'm assuming women are on the rag there, too."

Post 5043, deaman: "It's time for the world to wake up from the hypnotic BS it's been shilling for thousands of years."

Post 5156, jsfisher: "Joseph Smith was a Class-A con artist."

Post 5160, RoboTimbo: "We keep asking the wrong questions. The ones that would make most people think."

No disrespect in any of that, huh? Nothing but mature, rational, civil, truth-seeking discourse--right?

The MartyrCard^TM. Don't go out without it...

 

[Empress]

Oh? Here is what 15 minutes of reviewing posts on this thread reveals:

Post 5107, RandFan: "Acting like a Stepford wife is a poor way of getting others interested in your beliefs."

Post 5096, RoboTimbo: "regurgitated mindless pap from LDS doctrine. . . ."

Post 5110, halleyscomet: "It was a chance to show off she can use teh [sic] Google AND knows how to copy and paste text."

Post 5164, zooterkin: "too weak to operate a keyboard, as she's undergoing a fast of biblical proportions".

Post 5183, deaman: "It seems one of the major impetus [sic] in the mormon religion is how much sex you can have in all of eternity, with as many partners as you can gather."

Post 5189, Empress: "The problem with the LDS for men. . .is that in their afterlife, women are actually [sic] give birth, so I'm assuming women are on the rag there, too."

Post 5043, deaman: "It's time for the world to wake up from the hypnotic BS it's been shilling for thousands of years."

Post 5156, jsfisher: "Joseph Smith was a Class-A con artist."

Post 5160, RoboTimbo: "We keep asking the wrong questions. The ones that would make most people think."

No disrespect in any of that, huh? Nothing but mature, rational, civil, truth-seeking discourse--right?

WAAAAHHH!! People mock what I find sacred!! Help, help, I'm being repressed!!

Yawn.

 

[deaman]

Allow me to reiterate with this quote:

It's sort of sad that after thousands of years of indoctrinating children, threatening people with eternal damnation, burning them at the stake, and using their power and influence to otherwise subdue, harass, attack or outright eradicate anyone that dares suggest that maybe a thousand year old collection of internally inconsistent, logically impossible, scientifically defunct, ethically horrid morality tales from a bunch of illiterate goat herders isn't the most logical thing to base your view of the universe and standards for personal behavior for both yourself and others around that now religious people and religious apologist are playing the "You're being mean!" card so often.

- Joe Bentley -