LDS

Status
Not open for further replies.
Marcus said:
This thread, even more than other lengthy woo threads we have had here, demonstrates the power of Faith: the ability to ignore evidence , no matter how clear cut, no matter how well presented.
Click to expand...

That. Even with evidence their scriptures are hoaxes, the 'burning in the bosom' trumps facts every time.
Frightening.
 
pakeha said:
That. Even with evidence their scriptures are hoaxes, the 'burning in the bosom' trumps facts every time.
Frightening.
Click to expand...

It's the same with all true believers, their personal experience of talking to Jesus or seeing that UFO trumps any and all facts.
 
Why haven't the Mormons used ground penetrating radar on Hill Cumorah to find the store room of the golden plates? They would prove God and open up all that ancient wisdom for mankind. Funny that.

All over the middle east archeologist attempt to prove the bible.
 
Wolrab said:
Why haven't the Mormons used ground penetrating radar on Hill Cumorah to find the store room of the golden plates? They would prove God and open up all that ancient wisdom for mankind. Funny that.

All over the middle east archeologist attempt to prove the bible.
Click to expand...

Mormon archeologists prefer to search in South America because in modern Mormon apologetics all the BoM events took place where the Mayas lived.

This is because there's no evidence of any of the battles in the BoM around the Hill Cumorah in spite of the climactic battle being fought there.
 
While reading up on theSeptember SixWP, I came across a reference to the Heavenly MotherWP.

Is this a current LSD belief?
 
pakeha said:
While reading up on theSeptember SixWP, I came across a reference to the Heavenly MotherWP.

Is this a current LSD belief?
Click to expand...

Yes. This has been covered fairly extensively, but I don't' have the time to go back and find it, in this incredibly long thread, so I'll try to hit the highlights for you.

This part of the theology is the part where mainstream LDS and Fundamdamental LDS(FLDS) merge in their teachings. Back when Warren Jeffs was on the lam, and in the news, many LDS were really offended by him, and the practiced polygamy. They made a point to explain that mainstream LDS did not condone the practice, and that FLDS was in no way associated with the LDS.

That's true in practice, but in theory, mainstream LDS does still believe in polygamy, but it's only in the afterlife. Their view is that before we were born, we all lived in what they call the Pre-Existence. We were spirit babies of our Heavenly Mother and Heavenly Father. Only the very best, most righteous Mormons make it to this level (this is where you're a God and Goddess of your own worlds), and the kicker is that if you're a very good Mormon woman, your reward will be to be one of many Heavenly Mothers married to the same Heavenly Father and popping out spirit babies for all eternity. Really makes you want to be a good Mormon woman, doesn't it?

ETA: I remember my mother being very close to another woman in the church--one of those situations where you just meet someone but you feel like you've known them forever. For most of us, this is a pleasant, but normal experience, and we're glad we met someone we feel so close to, and leave it at that. I recall this woman and my mother having convinced themselves that the reason they felt so close to one another from the first time they met was because they were born of the same Heavenly Mother. So, yeah. :( Pitiful.
 
Last edited:
Reminds me of the afterlife of Islam. A devout Muslim gets many virgin wives when he goes to heaven. And women? ...they get to become virgins again.
 
Empress said:
Yes. This has been covered fairly extensively, but I don't' have the time to go back and find it, in this incredibly long thread, so I'll try to hit the highlights for you.

This part of the theology is the part where mainstream LDS and Fundamdamental LDS(FLDS) merge in their teachings. Back when Warren Jeffs was on the lam, and in the news, many LDS were really offended by him, and the practiced polygamy. They made a point to explain that mainstream LDS did not condone the practice, and that FLDS was in no way associated with the LDS.

That's true in practice, but in theory, mainstream LDS does still believe in polygamy, but it's only in the afterlife. Their view is that before we were born, we all lived in what they call the Pre-Existence. We were spirit babies of our Heavenly Mother and Heavenly Father. Only the very best, most righteous Mormons make it to this level (this is where you're a God and Goddess of your own worlds), and the kicker is that if you're a very good Mormon woman, your reward will be to be one of many Heavenly Mothers married to the same Heavenly Father and popping out spirit babies for all eternity. Really makes you want to be a good Mormon woman, doesn't it?

ETA: I remember my mother being very close to another woman in the church--one of those situations where you just meet someone but you feel like you've known them forever. For most of us, this is a pleasant, but normal experience, and we're glad we met someone we feel so close to, and leave it at that. I recall this woman and my mother having convinced themselves that the reason they felt so close to one another from the first time they met was because they were born of the same Heavenly Mother. So, yeah. :( Pitiful.
Click to expand...

Sorry not to be au courant. :blush:
My only excuse is that I've centred on the BoA because I was simply gob-smacked that anyone would take it seriously after the truth came out in the 70's.

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my question.
I see that the LDS idea is much closer to Islamic notions than I would have thought possible.
 
pakeha said:
Sorry not to be au courant. :blush:
My only excuse is that I've centred on the BoA because I was simply gob-smacked that anyone would take it seriously after the truth came out in the 70's.

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my question.
I see that the LDS idea is much closer to Islamic notions than I would have thought possible.
Click to expand...

It would seem those Islamic ideas come straight from the prophet.

Thomas B. Marsh:

I have heard the prophet say that he should yet tread down his enemies, and walk over their dead bodies; that if he was not let alone he would be a second Mahomet to this generation, and that he would make it one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean; that like Mahomet, whose motto, in treating for peace, was “the Alcoran or the Sword,” so should it be eventually with us, “Joseph Smith or the Sword.”
 
tsig said:
It would seem those Islamic ideas come straight from the prophet.

Thomas B. Marsh:

I have heard the prophet say that he should yet tread down his enemies, and walk over their dead bodies; that if he was not let alone he would be a second Mahomet to this generation, and that he would make it one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean; that like Mahomet, whose motto, in treating for peace, was “the Alcoran or the Sword,” so should it be eventually with us, “Joseph Smith or the Sword.”
Click to expand...

What a very singular and interesting quote. Can you tell a little about where it comes from, and the context, please?
 
tsig said:
It would seem those Islamic ideas come straight from the prophet.

Thomas B. Marsh:

I have heard the prophet say that he should yet tread down his enemies, and walk over their dead bodies; that if he was not let alone he would be a second Mahomet to this generation, and that he would make it one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean; that like Mahomet, whose motto, in treating for peace, was “the Alcoran or the Sword,” so should it be eventually with us, “Joseph Smith or the Sword.”
Click to expand...

Apparently that fascinating quotation comes from an affidavit mentioned here
http://www.saintswithouthalos.com/w/1838_tbmoh.phtml
 
pakeha said:
Sorry not to be au courant. :blush:
My only excuse is that I've centred on the BoA because I was simply gob-smacked that anyone would take it seriously after the truth came out in the 70's.

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my question.
I see that the LDS idea is much closer to Islamic notions than I would have thought possible.
Click to expand...

Oh, no, no, no. It's just such a long thread, and I had to leave for some appointments, so I couldn't deal with the subject in depth the way it needed, and I wanted you to get the answer to your question while I had time. :)

Now that I'm back home, I'll try to find where the thread went into that particular subject and get you a link.

ETA: It looks like that part of the discussion goes in depth starting here.
 
Last edited:
deaman said:
What a very singular and interesting quote. Can you tell a little about where it comes from, and the context, please?
Click to expand...

I first saw it in "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie and it seemed in keeping with Joe's increasing hubris. It was during the Missouri wars when the Mormons were being driven from the state and feeling were high on both sides

Since the BoM is a new Koran and Joe a prophet the parallels between Mormonism and Islam are obvious esp when you throw in multiple wives.
 
tsig said:
I first saw it in "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie and it seemed in keeping with Joe's increasing hubris. It was during the Missouri wars when the Mormons were being driven from the state and feeling were high on both sides

Since the BoM is a new Koran and Joe a prophet the parallels between Mormonism and Islam are obvious esp when you throw in multiple wives.
Click to expand...

I had never heard of Mahomet. Are we talking about Mohammed? As in: There is only one god, and his prophet is Mohammed.

Sorry, I really don't know much on the subject of Islam. Enlightening is appreciated.

Thank you.
 
deaman said:
I had never heard of Mahomet. Are we talking about Mohammed? As in: There is only one god, and his prophet is Mohammed.

Sorry, I really don't know much on the subject of Islam. Enlightening is appreciated.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Yes.

There are many variations of Mohammed.


Many Muslim, Islamic, and Christian internet searchers use different spellings. There are multiple spellings for the Muslim prophet Muhammad including:

Mohammed
Muhammad
Mohammad
Muhammed
Mohamed
Mohamad
Mahammed
Mohammod
Mahamed
Muhammod
Muhamad
Mohmmed
Mohamud
Mohammud
Mohomet
Mouhammed
Mehmet


 
tsig said:
Yes.

There are many variations of Mohammed.


Many Muslim, Islamic, and Christian internet searchers use different spellings. There are multiple spellings for the Muslim prophet Muhammad including:

Mohammed
Muhammad
Mohammad
Muhammed
Mohamed
Mohamad
Mahammed
Mohammod
Mahamed
Muhammod
Muhamad
Mohmmed
Mohamud
Mohammud
Mohomet
Mouhammed
Mehmet
Click to expand...

That really makes it a very peculiar thing for Joe Smith to say.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom